Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Huron came as close to victory as one could hope to come. That aside, I was tickled pink by the rofl stop fateweaver took, not Kugath so much as he actually gave the grey knights fits before one he ate cut it's way out of his belly. The hing about the sister sory that got to me s that the sisters were saved by their faith, when I don't think the GK are any less faithful than they are, they just hunt deamons instead of witches. It also implied that faith can be transmuted with blood, although I can kinda buy that. Question now is would the insane sisters of battle turn on the Grey knights for using sorcery. If aybody would stand up to the grey knights, it would be the crazed brides of the Emperor.

Gavo wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:Angron, magnus, lorgar and fulgrim barely ever leave the warp.

Look up the Dominion of Fire and The First War for Armageddon. He kinda was out of the warp a ton. Then he got banished, but hey.

For how long versus the 10,000 years (realtime) he's been around and the countless ages he's lived in the warp?

Magnus spent some time messing with the Space Wolves too, but it was relatively short compared to overall time that he could have been messing with them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sexiest_hero wrote:Question now is would the insane sisters of battle turn on the Grey knights for using sorcery. If aybody would stand up to the grey knights, it would be the crazed brides of the Emperor.

Ecclesiarchy might, if you found a priest or somesuch crazy enough, but I'd think that the sisters, if they even knew about the GK, would probably find that what they are doing is necessary.

GK are pretty high up on the Emperor's good boy list and that probably counts for something with the sisters.

Also, the Brides are gone. They hate it when you call them that.

Manchu wrote:Getting ninja'd is good here, pretre. It bears repeating, since this is apparently a big cause of the confusion/frustration:

GK are not totally immune to the lure of Chaos.

Ehhhh.

We've been told time and time again, even in the Grey Knights book, that they are immune to the spiritual temptation of Chaos.

There's a quote in there about "The spirit is unbreakable, but the flesh is vulnerable".

We don't know what the exact effects of the Bloodtide were. There might very well have been a physical component, and that's what we were seeing them being 'vulnerable' to.

@s_h:

It's hard to say whether Sisters even know about GK. Could they recognize them as servants of the Emperor? Surely, one of their officers would recognize them as agents of the Inquisition. That's probably enough for Sisters to reconsider "purging" them.

What would happen if the GK crossed paths with the BT? That would be awkward.

Kanluwen wrote:

Manchu wrote:Getting ninja'd is good here, pretre. It bears repeating, since this is apparently a big cause of the confusion/frustration:

GK are not totally immune to the lure of Chaos.

Ehhhh.

We've been told time and time again, even in the Grey Knights book, that they are immune to the spiritual temptation of Chaos.

There's a quote in there about "The spirit is unbreakable, but the flesh is vulnerable".

We don't know what the exact effects of the Bloodtide were. There might very well have been a physical component, and that's what we were seeing them being 'vulnerable' to.

The prosecution draws the defences attention once again to the use of an umbrella, an anorak, or perhaps a riot shield.

Kanluwen wrote:
We've been told time and time again, even in the Grey Knights book, that they are immune to the spiritual temptation of Chaos.

There's a quote in there about "The spirit is unbreakable, but the flesh is vulnerable".

We don't know what the exact effects of the Bloodtide were. There might very well have been a physical component, and that's what we were seeing them being 'vulnerable' to.

That's contradicted by IA2 and the new GK book with the fluff of the Purifiers and Crowe, where they are said to be 'resistant'. That being said, I think you are right that there is definitely a physical component involved.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Scarey Nerd wrote:
The prosecution draws the defences attention once again to the use of an umbrella, an anorak, or perhaps a riot shield.

It wasn't really funny the first time. But keep trying...

@Kanluwen: I think you may have the GK's battle cries/litanies confused with their fluff . . . But yeah, there could have been a "physical" as opposed/in addition to spiritual component. It's very clear at this point that the GK are not immune to Chaos and there's been no division of that immunity between physical and spiritual domains that I can recall either in the new book or in C: DH.

Can't help noticing than anyone who disagrees is a whinger or a whiner.

Funny that.

Of course that autodismisses any argument against.
Sort of a pre sixteen year old tactic playground tactic.

Where else are they suppose to go to discuss their displeasure? www.litcrit.com?

@Kanluwen: 'purifiers recruit only from those amongst their Battle-Brothers whose souls are considered to be utterly incorruptible and resistant to the temptations of the Warp'

Don't take your water-resistant watch into the pool, but it is cool in the rain.

Don't take your purifier into the bloodtide, but it is cool in a normal daemonic infestation.

Joke, btw, in case that wasn't obvious.

pretre wrote:It wasn't really funny the first time. But keep trying...

For once in my life, I'm not making a joke in particular. I cannot comprehend how the first idea they had to stop a tide of blood was to use other, nicer blood to repel Chaos. Why not evacuate the sisters, mindwipe them and exterminatus the planet? Why not use Stormravens with GK shooting out the sides? There were many alternatives to the murder of the Sisters.

It seems to me that a lot of people are upset because the Grey Knights fluff has changed, though evolved may be more appropriate, over the last couple of years. I cannot comment on Rogue Trader but as far back as 2nd edition the Grey Knights were demon fighting heroes and paragons of "good" (I understand this is a loaded term). Indeed, one could argue that they were the only real "good-guys" in the entire universe because Grey Knights really only fought demons (who are objectively evil). This Grey Knights = ultimate heroes continued into their Index Astartes article. It was only in the Demon Hunters codex that they really started to, pardon the pun, enter a more gray moral area.

I actually like the new direction that the fluff is going in. It makes a bit more sense given the grimdark theme that GW has been pushing recently. That said, I do understand why some people are upset about this. There are undoubtedly some people who liked the Grey Knights purely because they were the ultimate good guys. When the ultimate good guys start slaughtering nuns, even if it was done for a greater good, people are going to get upset. I think a decent way to look at it, though this may fail spectacularly, is to use Superman and Batman as examples. The Grey Knights were originally Superman, the ultimate good guy. Now they are moving aggressively into Batman territory and people who like the Superman ethos are not happy about it and I think they have a right to be a bit upset. The rage has been way over the top recently though.

Manchu wrote:

What would happen if the GK crossed paths with the BT? That would be awkward.

IIRC, it states in the BT codex that they are OK with the Grey Knights.

BT Codex wrote wrote:ABHOR THE WITCH. Such is the sacred revulsion in which the Black Templars hold witches and warlocks that they will never fight alongside such abominations. No model with psychic powers may be fielded as an ally to the Black Templars and they will not fight as allies to any army that includes any models with psychic powers, with the exception of Grey Knights Space Marines

Not quite fluff, but there you go.

Scarey Nerd wrote:For once in my life, I'm not making a joke in particular. I cannot comprehend how the first idea they had to stop a tide of blood was to use other, nicer blood to repel Chaos. Why not evacuate the sisters, mindwipe them and exterminatus the planet? Why not use Stormravens with GK shooting out the sides? There were many alternatives to the murder of the Sisters.

Were there? Apparently there weren't, or I'm sure that they would have used them.

We don't know that the Bloodtide would have been contained. In fact, one would think that the exterminatus of the population might have actually enhanced it (that much death and killing could only enhance a Khornate problem). All we have to work on is that the page in question says there are hours before the Bloodtide consumes the world and that the last time the BT was released, it killed millions (5th Ed RB).

Hey Manchu, don't know if you caught my post on that other thread but basically I agree. People are just upset that the Grey Knights aren't (and I try not to use this term) super mary sues. That they have a dark side. Well they do and its pretty fikkin' dark. I like it actually.

Manchu wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Whether or not you care to shoehorn this dross into the existing history does not change the opinion of many, that it remains dross.

Then it was dross when it was written in 2003, too. If you've always thought GK were gak, then I'm not sure what is surprising or disappointing about still thinking they're gak. I don't know that 40k has ever been much more than OTT one ups. That's the very concept of a Space Marine.

Why so serious...?

I've never said that GKs were gak nor do I really care about the previous fluff for good or ill, but this new codex, along with the BA one, just reads poorly. Not sure where you got me saying anything bad about previous fluff. Consider what stood out as 'orrible to me.


*Hopping into the warp to beat up a deamonically elevated primarch and carve someone's name into his heart then carrying on living in the warp and wandering around like some power armoured littlest hobbo. These are the kind of mythic tasks of a primarch, not 'that guy in my codex'.


*Casting a spell to send a planet through time. If you can pull a stunt like that, why aren't you going back and killing horus in the 'birth pod' or whatever, or moving planets out of the way of hive fleets or something, 'hey fulgrim, you know that sword, don't be playing with it or you'll go bad', 'Your emperorness, Lorgar has serious issues'.


*Murdering SOBs to create 'holy' protection blood paint for their armour. What would be holy about the spilled blood of valiant defenders murdered by these interlopers? What they just did fits the criteria for Khorne worship. The notion of fighting bad blood with pure blood is surely countered with 'how pure was it once the brave defenders were betrayed by their supposed liberators and murdered'.

Was any of this written in 2003? Along with the fast vindicator/deepstriking landraider driving BAs and their newfound necron friendship, it's just bad writing. It's certainly annoying when the '+1' crowd decide to make it a meme or whatever but, well, they have a point with these books. Neither one is particularly good imo.

You are very welcome and perfectly entitled to enjoy and approve these developments in the codices and I am as entitled to consider them far too over the top and silly.

They don't send Titan back in time they just hide it for a while.

Manchu wrote:@Kanluwen: I think you may have the GK's battle cries/litanies confused with their fluff . . . But yeah, there could have been a "physical" as opposed/in addition to spiritual component.

No, it's actually stated in there. "They are spiritually incorruptible, but the flesh is weak and can betray them before their work is done" or something to that effect.

But of course just saying that they are "resistant to Chaos" could mean anything. It could mean that they have an innate resistance to the temptations of Chaos, or that they have an innate resistance to sorcerous attacks from the Ruinous Powers, etc.

It's so very vague that you could argue for years about this and not gain any ground in one direction or the other. It's the same with the "Tau being dim within the Warp" crap that the Tau fanboys love to cite as a reason why they should be immune to Psyker attacks.

Just because you have a "resistance" or are "difficult to sense" within/to the Warp: it doesn't mean that you cannot be harmed by it. If that were the case, then Blanks wouldn't be able to be killed by psykers unleashing blasts that roast them alive.

It's very clear at this point that the GK are not immune to Chaos and there's been no division of that immunity between physical and spiritual domains that I can recall either in the new book or in C: DH.

So where are the traitor Grey Knights in the lore? We've not seen a single one. If they're "not immune to Chaos", then they would have at least one Grey Knight who has fallen by now.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
I've never said that GKs were gak nor do I really care about the previous fluff for good or ill, but this new codex, along with the BA one, just reads poorly. Not sure where you got me saying anything bad about previous fluff. Consider what stood out as 'orrible to me.

Fair enough. You don't like how it reads.

That being said your responses below are part of the problem with the criticism that I see. I.e. it isn't accurate.

*Hopping into the warp to beat up a deamonically elevated primarch and carve someone's name into his heart then carrying on living in the warp and wandering around like some power armoured littlest hobbo. These are the kind of mythic tasks of a primarch, not 'that guy in my codex'.

Didn't happen like that. It was part of a battle where the previous SGM was killed, Draigo (along with the rest of the GK brotherhoods there) smashed his way to the heart of the Daemonic army and knocked Mortarion down. The second part is not because he wants to. He is trapped in the warp by the ruinous powers. I'm sure he'd love to get back to his boys, but except for a few short escapes, he can't.

*Casting a spell to send a planet through time. If you can pull a stunt like that, why aren't you going back and killing horus in the 'birth pod' or whatever, or moving planets out of the way of hive fleets or something, 'hey fulgrim, you know that sword, don't be playing with it or you'll go bad', 'Your emperorness, Lorgar has serious issues'.

Not what hapenned. They activated the moon sized gellar fields and went to the warp. And just like a lot of trips to the warp, things got messed up and they didn't come back until some time later. They did not go back in time. The only documented 'back in time' in a codex that I know of is the Ork codex where the Warboss offs himself so he can have two guns.

*Murdering SOBs to create 'holy' protection blood paint for their armour. What would be holy about the spilled blood of valiant defenders murdered by these interlopers? What they just did fits the criteria for Khorne worship. The notion of fighting bad blood with pure blood is surely countered with 'how pure was it once the brave defenders were betrayed by their supposed liberators and murdered'.

Who says the sisters were betrayed? The GKs can't betray the sisters. Their calling is higher and I'm sure if they had the time and explained it to them, the sisters would have been cool. But you know, planet's gonna blow up and daemons are going to get out pretty quick if we dawdle.

Was any of this written in 2003? Along with the fast vindicator/deepstriking landraider driving BAs and their newfound necron friendship, it's just bad writing. It's certainly annoying when the '+1' crowd decide to make it a meme or whatever but, well, they have a point with these books. Neither one is particularly good imo.

Overcharged engines have been around forever. Deepstriking landraiders are just an extension of Thunderhawk use so are putting rules to something that has been done in the fluff for a while. Necron friendship, IMHO, was to show some of Dante's ennui and hunger for peace.

You are very welcome and perfectly entitled to enjoy and approve these developments in the codices and I am as entitled to consider them far too over the top and silly.

Absolutely. I just protest when those decisions are made on incorrect facts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:

It's very clear at this point that the GK are not immune to Chaos and there's been no division of that immunity between physical and spiritual domains that I can recall either in the new book or in C: DH.

So where are the traitor Grey Knights in the lore? We've not seen a single one. If they're "not immune to Chaos", then they would have at least one Grey Knight who has fallen by now.

IA2 wrote:'The Chapter's warriors are heavily conditioned to resist the whispered seductions of Chaos and the honeyed lies of daemonic creatures. These precautions are vital and, thus far, have proven to be effective, as not a single Grey Knight has faltered in battle or become a pawn of the Dark Powers.'

For the same reason that only 1 SOB is documented as falling and the GK are that much more pure than the SOB.

Also, if there was one who fell, do you think we would hear about it? Either the fall would be part of a massive loss (say a Brotherhood tries to stem a Daemonic Invasion and fails) and so no one would live to tell the tale or the =I= would have that covered up faster than anything.

Yep, they moved the planet into the warp and time accelerated in the warp and then they revealed themselves a few years later as a full chapter from the original 8 marines.

codex GK wrote:Before leaving Titan for the final time, Malcador
forged one last enchantment, greater than any that had
come before it. Titan vanished completely from its orbit,
hidden from Horus in the most unlikely of refuges - Malcador had anchored it amongst the tides of the Warp. Protected by Macro-Geller fields and sigilic rites of Malcador's own devising, Titan rode out the tumult of the Warp whilst the
rest of the galaxy endured through the last months of the
Horus Heresy and the tragedy of the Emperor's final battle
Titan finally returned to its orbit in the mortal realm amidst
the anarchy of the Second Founding. Time had flowed
differently in the Warp, and Titan had endured a measure of years far greater than that of the mortal world. So it was that a Chapter that had entered the Warp composed of a mere eight Space Marines and hundreds upon hundreds of untrained recruits, emerged with a full complement of one thousand fully trained Battle-Brothers.

And I'm still not getting why not just have the surviving loyalists from those chapters who fell come together and found the order with the fledgling inquisition in a more clandestine and less 'over 9000' sort of way.

Kanluwen wrote:

Manchu wrote:@Kanluwen: I think you may have the GK's battle cries/litanies confused with their fluff . . . But yeah, there could have been a "physical" as opposed/in addition to spiritual component.

No, it's actually stated in there. "They are spiritually incorruptible, but the flesh is weak and can betray them before their work is done" or something to that effect.

But of course just saying that they are "resistant to Chaos" could mean anything. It could mean that they have an innate resistance to the temptations of Chaos, or that they have an innate resistance to sorcerous attacks from the Ruinous Powers, etc.

It's so very vague that you could argue for years about this and not gain any ground in one direction or the other. It's the same with the "Tau being dim within the Warp" crap that the Tau fanboys love to cite as a reason why they should be immune to Psyker attacks.

Just because you have a "resistance" or are "difficult to sense" within/to the Warp: it doesn't mean that you cannot be harmed by it. If that were the case, then Blanks wouldn't be able to be killed by psykers unleashing blasts that roast them alive.

It's very clear at this point that the GK are not immune to Chaos and there's been no division of that immunity between physical and spiritual domains that I can recall either in the new book or in C: DH.

So where are the traitor Grey Knights in the lore? We've not seen a single one. If they're "not immune to Chaos", then they would have at least one Grey Knight who has fallen by now.

I think in a way the Bloodtide incident proves their incorruptibilty of spirit. If you can do something like that and not be corrupted you're pretty incorruptible. However, there's two types of corruption. Character flaw corruption (which apparently Grey Knights are immune too) and direct warp energy exposure corruption which no one can really be 100% immune to. If you want some tomperory immunity to a form of that then apparently you need to bath in the blood of innocents...who knew?

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Yep, they moved the planet into the warp and time accelerated in the warp and then they revealed themselves a few years later as a full chapter from the original 8 marines.

You're misreading that.
Notice the part that I bolded. That's a known property of the warp.

codex GK wrote:Before leaving Titan for the final time, Malcador forged one last enchantment, greater than any that had come before it. Titan vanished completely from its orbit, hidden from Horus in the most unlikely of refuges - Malcador had anchored it amongst the tides of the Warp. Protected by Macro-Geller fields and sigilic rites of Malcador's own devising, Titan rode out the tumult of the Warp whilst the rest of the galaxy endured through the last months of the Horus Heresy and the tragedy of the Emperor's final battle Titan finally returned to its orbit in the mortal realm amidst the anarchy of the Second Founding. Time had flowed differently in the Warp, and Titan had endured a measure of years far greater than that of the mortal world. So it was that a Chapter that had entered the Warp composed of a mere eight Space Marines and hundreds upon hundreds of untrained recruits, emerged with a full complement of one thousand fully trained Battle-Brothers.

There are very few imperial institutions that wouldn't absolutely stab another institution in the back if they thought it would help. Probably the only exceptions are some of the more "honorable" Space Marine chapters.

Inquisitors (and by extention their agents) don't play small ball. A world is worth far more than some SoBs. Worlds are a finite resource. Sisters of Battle can be replaced.

Also, I'd like to speak to the whole concept that orbital bombardment = win. Again, that is another world lost to the imperium. It is now useless and pushes the Imperium one step closer to the brink. It's a scorched earth policy of a desperate race that's been put on the defensive for the better part of 10,000 years.

Manchu wrote:No one is saying Matt Ward is Shakespeare. And no one is saying that 40k is literature. But I actually like it. It's no surprise to me that people who think the quality of 40k fluff is poor overall don't like particular parts of it, either. What surprises me is that they come to a site about 40k and complain about it.

For the most part I only have issues with Matt Ward and Goto's additions to the fluff, not saying this because of what everyone else is saying either. I've actually read Goto's DoW series, and Matt Ward's changes to the Space Marines were one of the things that made me change my army to Chaos. I don't like many of the changes he makes to the fluff and sometimes the rules.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
I think in a way the Bloodtide incident proves their incorruptibilty of spirit. If you can do something like that and not be corrupted you're pretty incorruptible. However, there's two types of corruption. Character flaw corruption (which apparently Grey Knights are immune too) and direct warp energy exposure corruption which no one can really be 100% immune to. If you want some tomperory immunity to a form of that then apparently you need to bath in the blood of innocents...who knew?

Luckily the GK.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Can't help noticing than anyone who disagrees is a whinger or a whiner.

I recognize the difference between whinging and criticism. Still looking for the later, if you'd like to post on-topic.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
And I'm still not getting why not just have the surviving loyalists from those chapters who fell come together and found the order with the fledgling inquisition in a more clandestine and less 'over 9000' sort of way.

Mate, Titan is a moon

That's is still pretty crazy.

What was the original founding story for the Grey Knights?

andain841 wrote:Indeed, one could argue that they were the only real "good-guys" in the entire universe because Grey Knights really only fought demons (who are objectively evil).

Fighting evil exclusively doesn't necessarily make you good. I agree with you that people have an expectation that Grey Knight really means White Knight. I just don't think it's a realistic expectation to have of 40k or the basis for any reasonable critique of their current codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Murdering SOBs to create 'holy' protection blood paint for their armour. What would be holy about the spilled blood of valiant defenders murdered by these interlopers? What they just did fits the criteria for Khorne worship. The notion of fighting bad blood with pure blood is surely countered with 'how pure was it once the brave defenders were betrayed by their supposed liberators and murdered'.

Actually what they did does NOT fit the criteria for Khorne worship. The essence of Khorne worship isn't just spilling blood. It's spilling blood for the Blood God. You're right about my OP starting with flamebait, which was wrong of me, I should edit in an apology. I can see that it distracted you from the rest of the post, which outlined the explicit way that this example takes the daemonic weapon and turns it against the daemonic. It's not just as simple as taking your enemies' swords and cutting off their heads with them. The GK literally transform the weapon of the daemon, blood sacrifice to Khorne, and turn it into a weapon against the daemons, blood sacrifice more or less to/on behalf of the Emperor.

MGS wrote:Was any of this written in 2003?

The specific incidents you mentioned are the logical extensions of the background laid down in 2003, as my OP systematically explains. I'm not arguing that they're OTT. I am arguing that 40k is now and has always been OTT.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:If you want some tomperory immunity to a form of that then apparently you need to bath in the blood of innocents...who knew?

YES! This sums up the gothic horror that we're supposed to love. Warp Magic is not good -- even when "good guys" do it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:So where are the traitor Grey Knights in the lore? We've not seen a single one. If they're "not immune to Chaos", then they would have at least one Grey Knight who has fallen by now.

Third time posting this ITT: do not confuse "none have fallen" with "none can ever fall."

Manchu wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Murdering SOBs to create 'holy' protection blood paint for their armour. What would be holy about the spilled blood of valiant defenders murdered by these interlopers? What they just did fits the criteria for Khorne worship. The notion of fighting bad blood with pure blood is surely countered with 'how pure was it once the brave defenders were betrayed by their supposed liberators and murdered'.

Actually what they did does NOT fit the criteria for Khorne worship. The essence of Khorne worship isn't just spilling blood. It's spilling blood for the Blood God. You're right about my OP starting with flamebait, which was wrong of me, I should edit in an apology. I can see that it distracted you from the rest of the post, which outlined the explicit way that this example takes the daemonic weapon and turns it against the daemonic. It's not just as simple as taking your enemies sword and cutting off his head with it. The GK literally transform the weapon of the daemon, blood sacrifice to Khorne, and turn it into a weapon against the daemons, blood sacrifice more or less to/on behalf of the Emperor.

MGS wrote:Was any of this written in 2003?

The specific incidents you mentioned are the logical extensions of the background laid down in 2003, as my OP systematically explains. I'm not arguing that they're OTT. I am arguing that 40k is now and has always been OTT.

Good of you to amend the opening of your post.

Where you and I are missing each other here is that you have sat down and construed meanings for the various actions in the books and what I'm saying is that I believe they were not written with those detailed and well thought out meanings behind them. Perhaps we can get you writing the fluff for Ward's books instead of Ward, or at least proof reading them and filling the spaces.

The return to mindwiping, guard massacring etc is part of the fluff of old and in keeping with the original RoC TL&TD fiction and gives them back their sinister and dark rep, which I like. The OTT has indeed always been a part of 40k, each codex going one-upping it's army (swarmlord beating on MCalgar for example) but the last two Ward books do seem to have 'gone up to 11' on the whole thing as though aimed at an even younger audience.

Part of why I love both Warhammer backgrounds is the mature and dark themes employed by background, I am not keen on seeing that swept away in an avalanche of hair rock guitar riffs as marine ulta-galva-mega heroes save the day and 'don't afraid of nothing' or however that saying goes.

Peace.

Manchu wrote:Fighting evil exclusively doesn't necessarily make you good. I agree with you that people have an expectation that Grey Knight really means White Knight. I just don't think it's a realistic expectation to have of 40k or the basis for any reasonable critique of their current codex.

You're absolutely right. Just fighting evil does not necessarily make someone good, it helps though. The Grey Knights were always (historically may be a better word) presented as the holy, pure of heart, heroes that banished evil from the galaxy. I agree that the current grim/dark trajectory of 40k would make the inclusion of a "White Knight" a bit silly and out of place. Where I disagree is with your last point. I think that using the old fiction to critique the new codex is eminently reasonable. What else is the "White Knight" crowd supposed to use to compare it to? Or is your assertion that arguing based on fluff from before the Demon Hunter Codex is unreasonable? If that is the case then I can see your point but I'm not certain I agree with it.

edit:
@Manchu
It would seem that MeanGreenStompa's post just above shows that the Grey Knights were originally more sinister than they were portrayed through 2nd and 3rd ed. This would seem to lend weight to your argument that the expectation of a "White Knight" is not reasonable.

MGS wrote:the last two Ward books do seem to have 'gone up to 11'

Made my day. Nigel Tufnel would indeed love Matt Ward.

I really do think Ward had those meanings in mind when he penned the Bloodtide episode. The themes are perfectly consistent. He's just a better than it is fashionable (among we the unfashionable) to admit.