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@prince

that would be a number of things dependent on faction

but generally anything that can threaten her beyond 14inches

be it shooting, magic, or my case magic prevention and a big furry beast just popping up beside her

For the sake of conversation assume Khador.

infantry removal (mortars?) high armor and large model count and a deathbolt from Eiyriss to the face

I like the heavy armor part of that

well there is no hard guideline, still dependant on the list
I would say "Anti Magic"list
Which I don't think we have, however if i choose a caster, it would be p/eIrusk, as with Deathstar i can do a close range gunline list, that would well reduce the effect of termporal barrier

take character jack (we have plentiful) so they don;t get dominated, the other one is Karchev gunboat but with Beast 09 and say Torch with him, congrats you killed off one of Haleys spell "Domination"

well that is me though

just to help you visualize it

regular Haley has an upkeep spell that will keep you from running and charging within her control area and lowers your defense by 2

the defense debuff is not much of an issue

but the movement restrictions are the problem. With Khador's speed 4 jacks this is a painful game of "catch me if you can". see why butcher will hate her?

if you can start your charges outside of that 14" bubble then you can charge but goodluck with that

Yeah Good luck finding something outside of Strakhov Piercing spear in Khador that charges outside 14 inches, but yeah...

Karchev seems like the Barrier is less annoying than to Butcher, thanks to Tow. Can at least get a few guys in and start punching things. Isn't it also possible to drop some Blasts on her by Towing something with a Bombard into range for it to move and shoot? Her DEF is pretty good but not amazing ARM and if she's buffing it, that's quite a bit of Focus. Seems at least serviceable.

we're not saying shes impossible to kill

we're just saying itll take a long time to do so

I don't really get discouraged, it's just fun brain storming ways to do ________. At low points I could see it being more annoying but at least she'll be using most of her Focus. :] Having some shooting and using Tow on the right turn seems like a good way to start things off. Even if she's blocking charges, if I can just get into melee I can eliminate some models that are actually the ones doing damage.

getting into melee is the idea...

but the usual Haley list has long gunners and defenders...

shes a Litmus test for a good list alright.

Hi PoE!
I like your beast heavy Legion plan, I reckon you want Thag, or Abysonia and a forsaken or two to manage fury. Then you can go nuts (I plan to!)

On the Haley side of things, she is pretty flimsy. The whole trick is to thin out her blockers and then hit her. But she's pretty tricksy, and can deny you the hit a lot. So you've got to keep her under pressure to commit focus so that she can't be quite so tricky and then wait for your chance.
I think WM/H is a game where regardless of match up, you can always win by outplaying your opponent and fighting smart, as long as you have some ranged, some melee, and some support, regardless of whether it is big and stompy or small and weedy.

Yeah I've been reading the Cygnar book and she can do a lot of scary things while protecting good shooters but it's really not bulletproof. Any kind of Blast will mess Long Gunners up with ease but I guess the point is to make them a target. Defender is still really good with her but it can't shoot apart Heavies instantly and it's nothing special in combat.

I'm pretty much in a dead heat of Khador or Legion, I think I prefer Legion a bit just because of $$$ and the Tier lists aren't horrible like Karchev's.

@Prince

Im not saying that shes bulletproof and its really good that youre thinking of ways around her. No list is bulletproof and thats what I like about WM/H

remember though what i said about uphill battles? Jack heavy khador has an uphill battle with Haley. It's not just defenders, youve got hunters with AP, journeymen pumping arcane shield, squire extending ctrl areas and stuff

theory machine is awesome, but seeing it on the table is different

One thing that trumps Haley's playstyle though aside from long threat ranges is threat saturation. youll need to put in a few things that will threaten Haley in different directions because shes either going to have to focus fire in one direction

have you thought about the units/solos that you ARE willing to take?

Mechaniks seem wise for Khador, I don't really like any of their units besides Widowmakers and don't see much application in a Jack list. Not a fan of any Legion units but their Solos seems awesome, Shepherds and Forsaken etc.

to add...

im assuming Eiyriss is something youd want to get when you go Khador right?

Is she in a book? I cannot find her except online, I like reading the actual effects.

shes a merc in prime

That chick is THREE POINTS? Upsetting. Although I guess she's "less useful" against Hordes.

She's pretty squishy, again, if you can catch her. But yeah, dead useful for 3 points.

lol. first time ive seen anyone balk at her points cost. Karchev sweats a bit when shes on the table

but yeah the regular version is "less useful" but still is a good solo hunter

the epic version is more useful vs hordes as Hordes loooves its upkeeps

The Defender has a Cortex hammer that is one point stronger than it's gun. Do not overlook this. Also eEiryss is awesome. Stripping upkeeps and anime along with a slew of other things? Yes please.

Edit: Again, something that's key with eEiryss that is indispensable is the ability to remove both upkeeps and animi. Against hordes I have found this indispensable. Especially with Animi that boost armor, prevent charging or a slew of other things.

Animi Sunshine, not anime , no matter how Ret looks as if it came out of an Anime

Karchev tier list is a POS
Tier 1 till Tier 3 benefit is useless, His tier 4 however is actually a nightmare , at high enough point that +1 will stack up

Whoops, good catch >_>

Retrias wrote:Animi Sunshine, not anime , no matter how Ret looks as if it came out of an Anime

http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?30849-I-am-so-sorry&highlight=retribution+manga

Also a WarmaHordes newbie. I'm also looking for a "full of big things" army, and really like the look of Trollbloods. Would they be capable of making an army mainly of big smashy things?

Pretty much everyone can make an army entirely of big smashy things. Just slightly different flavors of smash.

Cerebrium wrote:Also a WarmaHordes newbie. I'm also looking for a "full of big things" army, and really like the look of Trollbloods. Would they be capable of making an army mainly of big smashy things?

Yes? Considering trollblood is full of medium bases and large bases in the army, There is bound to be at least one Beast/Jack caster in the whole faction

You've got doomshaper and epicdoomshaper, but so much
of trolls strengths come from their infantry synergies that I
have trouble seeing their beast smash options. However, I'm
biased toward infantry.

The Prince of Excess wrote:I did discover the angles part, like I said I am used to games with WAY bigger model counts. Butcher is very interesting, I will probably make a list for him and Karchev and see how I like both. I can appreciate that WM is about getting combos off, not trying to just have a standard "I run in, roll some dice, oh I win!" army, I just admire stream lining and try to KISS.

Butcher and karchev may be my two favorite casters. I love karchev because on occasion, I just like to field a piss ton of giant robots who smash stuff. Plus, Karchev is a warcaster...inside of a jack...who is also a warcaster D:!!!!!

I love the butcher because he can demolish ANYTHING. People often make the mistake of thinking that because he down in models and has some damage on him, he is vulnerable...until he cleaves a warjack in two with a single swing, and proceeds to demolish half your army in a single turn.

I would say that jack heavy karchev lists are very competitive, mainly because thats really the only way to run karchev.

Also - I dont do tourneys too often, I almost only run 15-25pts. a range where karchev is very deadly