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hes definetely refering to the fact that you must have 5 paladins to upgrade them with 2 options. Also are you bent on having paladins or would you be interested in a different list with psycannons. If you are i have a decent 750pts list that i ran for the beggining of our escalation league.

I would be very interested.

1R0NMONK3Y wrote:My nid army is better cause i have been playing with them for longer so i will post that soon and you guys can tell me how you would beat it. (apart from with grey knights cause i already know they would own my nids, need to reconfigure...) that way i can adapt to be better and then no one can stop me!!!

1R0NM0NK3Y wrote:
Yeah I havn't had much time to read it. Been Studying for exams unfortunatly. Most of what i read was the background and the info on the Models that I had. But i had a skim over the page on the librarian and he looks pretty good. Another problem is money, i am only 15 so i don't have much of it and no-one is hiring these days so i was looking for a cost effective army aswell as a powerful one (maybe asking for a bit much)

Honestly, I'd tell you to not even start Grey Knights. I'm sure you've noticed from your Nids, that War hammer isn't exactly a cheap hobby. You said it yourself. You are only 15, and don't have a job. I'm 24, in law school and have soul crushing amounts of debt- you can bet I only have 1 army... that has been accumulated over the years primarily by getting a box or 2 on birthdays and Christmas over multiple years.
I am starting to accumulate some chaos stuff, but thats mostly to work on my modeling and painting as a fun side project- I won't start really building the army for at least another year.

Pick. Do you want Tyranids or Grey Knights. I wouldn't even think about starting a new army until you have at least a solid 1500-2000 point army.

Since you've already started Nids, and you are confident in your abilities with them... I seriously recommend just taking the money you were going to spend on Draigo + Terminators and buy some Hive Guard for your Tyranids!

Tyranids can still beat Grey Knights- in fact they can annihilate them

Its better to have one awesome army than 2 half assed ones. Every time. You can't get sucked into GW's flavor of the month- or you'll run out of money real fast and never accumulate a respectable 2000 point army- unless you have either
a) adequate disposable income
or
b) an awesome tournament list and you go about kicking ass and taking so many names that you can build any army you want out of tournament winnings for free (See Dashofpepper)

The above poster is correct. Start with what you know, and get really good at that. From there branch off and look into other armies. I started with Ultras and yes I get bashed sometimes and people do call them smurfs, but they work great and I have a great balanced list and when the dice gods are with me they smash face.

I am creating a grey knights force at the moment as well. This force will be more for fun than anything. Will it win? I hope so. Will it smash? Probably not. Will I have fun regardless? YES.

It is just the assassin I don't have. I bought the termies and Draigo on the day they came out and the codex the next week. i do get quite alot of disposable income i just don't have enough for metals cause for the cash you pay I don't think they are that great unless you get a full brood and i will probably never play with a full brood cause i usually only play 750pts and I already have 2000pts of nids which is why I wanted to get the grey knights. At Christmas i got 1500pts of nids so when it comes to my birthday in august i will get a hell of alot of grey knights. i just wanted to do an army list now so i knew in advance what i could do with the forces I got. I am using pocket money and stuff to build up a reasnoble force before i get the main bulk of my force.

Why not just wait till august? You'll practically get a whole army anyway,
might as well just spend that pocket money on girls...

akaean wrote:Why not just wait till august? You'll practically get a whole army anyway,
might as well just spend that pocket money on girls...

Guess what I'm doing.

Sounds good its just i like to have a general idea of how to play the faction and then decide where i want to organise the main bulk of my force. Another thing i was looking at is dreadknights. Since i got a carnifex and 2 trygons for my christmas i am expecting at least 1 dreadknight so in your experiance, what works best for weapons. Or should i use some green stuff to try and magnetize them?

I may be no one to give advice ,but maybe have a unit of
10 termies with 10 deamon hammers and with hammer hand
you are getting 20 str 9 or 10 power attacks. " monilith smash! land raider! smash! bane blade! smash!" Well if you get there.

biohazardcake wrote:I may be no one to give advice ,but maybe have a unit of
10 termies with 10 deamon hammers and with hammer hand
you are getting 20 str 9 or 10 power attacks. " monilith smash! land raider! smash! bane blade! smash!" Well if you get there.

Overkill and waste of points. 1:4 Ratio Daemonhammer:NFW in every squad is the best way to go.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I stand corrected.

Hammer over kill is not that good. Initialtive 1

Same squad with halbreds (sorry for spelling)

Yeah too many hammers is not great. My howling banshees with doom destroyed a squad of paladins that charged them the other day. 18 attacks --> 10 re-rollable = 8 unsavable wounds from regular banshees. 2 attacks from exarch will give 1 more wound. As luck would have it I scored 16 wounds, and only 4 were saved by that 5+ invul. 5 paladins wiped before they could even strike. Vindicare assassin can't do much to wave serpents and no tanks means fast armies like eldar/dark eldar can run circles around you.

Also tau would give you some trouble. 10 fire warriors shooting rapid fire is 20 shots, with bs 5 from markerlights, str 5, we're looking at 11 wounds. 2 squads will have a good chance of wiping the terminators. Add to that the ridiculous amount of firepower from the battlesuits and your squads will die if they get close to the tau gunline. The vindicare assassin will have a difficult time destroying tau tanks, thanks to the 4+ cover save for 5 points.

Flashlights kill terminators too, btw. And meltaguns will instant death paladins. Banshees, guardsmen and fire warriors cost less than 200 pts and can destroy a term squad in 2 turns. War walkers with the amazing 24 str 6 shots will likely kill 2 terms per round at 36". Destroying terminators is not a matter of AP, but volume of fire.

You do need alot of fire.

Only way to beat the termis is to swarm them. Or out gun them.

Tau can out gun everyone, to kill termis in close combat you can either use maybe other termis, power weapons, force weapons, or just millions of attacks like orks. 30 boys charge in, 2 base attack, 1 attack (2 CC) 1 attack, charge.

Say a 10 man termis squad, 20 attacks 4+ hit 3+ (hammer hand) wound. So 10 will hit and about 6-7 wounds.

So let's say it got 7, that 23 boys 4 attack S5 (charged)

4+ hit 3+ wound

46 hit 29-30 wound

2+ armour save, 5 termis die.

Round 2

5 termis 10 attacks, 5 hit 3-4 wounds

19 boys 57 attacks 14-15 wounds

2+ save 2 termis die

Round 3

3 termis 6 attacks 3 hit 2 wounds

17 boys 51 attacks 12-13 wounds

2+ save 2 termis die

Round 4

1 termi 2 attack 1 hit 2/3 wounds (say 1 wound)

16 boys 48 attacks 12 wounds

2+ 2 termis die.

That's just statistically.
30 boys is about 195 points
10 termis 400 points.

16 boys survived.

Still that's just CC,GK will kill most in ranged attacks but they still can be killed. That's why purifiers are so good.

Paladins will do better but 60 boys should take them out and that's still abut cheaper, they will be locked in combat for the whole game so they can't do much.... And that's not good.

^ Accept you are unlikly to ever see a 30 man squad of slugga boyz. You only take slugga boyz for transports, so only 20 are reasonable. All 30 man ork squads are shoota boyz. And if you give the paladins a brotherhood banner, that's extra attacks, and combined with stormbolter shuffle and psycannons, it's doubtful a 30 man boyz squad would make it in unscathed.

Rather than trying to jump into a big game (large points), if money is your issue - start smaller.

You will find alot of guys your age and experience level will be in the exact same boat - I remember when I was 15, I had no job and rolled on what ever I managed to find - I think I had 10 marines... Everybody was talking about 2000pt games - in reality any one my age had enough models to play 200-500pt games, if that.

So my advice, is pick an army (Grey Knights will be the 'coolest' for the next month or two...maybe 3....) if you have the codex, that is the best start. Then buy the most basic of troops choices - terminators if you really want or just a normal strike squad. Then most GW Stores will let you use their paints, hang round in the store - play some kill team games (usually 200 pts), which are mega fun as grey knights and go from there. This will do a few things - keep your budget low, allow you to develop your painting (if you get too many models at once, you end up never painting them) and lets you get to know the rules. You will learn all about your squad, and know all the ins and outs as well as slowly being exposed to the other armies rules.

If you shoot straight for a large game 750pts(or lots more) with only a handful of models, you'll be over come by - cost and mostly, the millions of special rules each army has that every one keeps saying.

I'm really keen to help with building a kill team list with you if you want, because lets face it winning is half the fun of the game.

Eagle


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damn it... There were two pages... *sigh*

Still stands

You get way too awesome a christmas/birthday presents... I wish to be adopted by your family (do you perhaps have a hot older sister?)

loota boy wrote:^ Accept you are unlikly to ever see a 30 man squad of slugga boyz. You only take slugga boyz for transports, so only 20 are reasonable. All 30 man ork squads are shoota boyz. And if you give the paladins a brotherhood banner, that's extra attacks, and combined with stormbolter shuffle and psycannons, it's doubtful a 30 man boyz squad would make it in unscathed.

60 boys. atleast 30 will get through and a maybe 3 nobs with PK.

I had a battle like this with my friend. Best way to take out termis is to send in lots of deff dreads.




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Eagleeye wrote:
damn it... There were two pages... *sigh*

Still stands

You get way too awesome a christmas/birthday presents... I wish to be adopted by your family (do you perhaps have a hot older sister?)

Haha, I don't understand why people can't spend on models, they are not as expensive as I expected, except the tanks.

I was expecting a £500 budget on my Gk but turned out to be £250 with all paints then £100 for a cool KR aluminium case with a matching aluminium dice case for my gold plated dice (not joking)

OK just trolling *kicks myself and goes to hide.


To OP You can do paladins if you like, for now and the next few months your not gonna get into tournament play so no big deal, if you ever want to play in tournaments, by then you should have enough knowlage and money and time to build a much better list.

Also you can always say paladins are termis then use them in your future list.




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OR

you can just read someone else's list and copy it.

I still think it is unlikly to see that many slugga boyz. If they are footsloggin, almost everyone I know use shoota boyz, unless you have the blackreach boyz and don't want to run them in a battlewagon. Or if you are playing a fluffy list or summut.

I understand your criticisms of the people who have commented. I agree with you that not everybody has given you constructive criticism. With respect to your original post; I would find it hard to make a list using paladins at just 750. one of my paladin squads and draigo would be effectively over the limit. If you ask for cheese lists you will get people saying, "take psyfilman dreads and purifiers", and that virtually no other units are competitive, which isn't true. It's just the generic competitive list people come out with, not the only one. I suggest you play some games at a higher points limit and find which units suit you and then put them into your 750 army list.
In addition, proxy models with your friends whilst you decide which units you like. So you don't waste money.

Gorechild wrote:Any list that puts over 1/3 of their points into a HQ is a bad list imo, especially an army with only 7 models in it.
You'll get over the "How awesome is this one guy" stage when you realise how easy it is to fail a few 2+ saves against a proper shooty army.

Which won't happen a whole lot in a 750 point game.

Even in bigger games (ie: 2000+ points) I've seen Draigo and his 'dins foot slog it across a table without a scratch; despite the full force of 15 Long Fangs and 3 Razorbacks pumping heavy weapons into them, or 9 IG tanks, or 3 squads of 15 Lootaz...

It's probably the hardest Deathstar unit in the game to bring down. If they are traveling in armor, it's even worse. At 750 points, they are a bad decision, however, as losing even one of them pretty much cripples a 7 model army.

I have revised my list and am going to wait until my B-day to get it, what do you think of thsi:

HQ:
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor
Terminator armour, storm bolter, nemisis deamon hammer
Total 65pts

Elites:
Purifiers (x5)
Psybolt Ammunition
Incinerators (x2)
Halberd (x2)
KotF: master craft (x2)
Digital weapon
Halberd
Total: 161pts

Troops:
Strike Squad (x5)
Psycannon
Justicar: Master Craft (x2)
Total: 120pts

Strike Squad (x5)
Psycannon
Justicar: Halberd
Total: 115

Heavy Support:
Land Raider Redeemer
Multi Melta
Hunter Killer Missile
Psybolt Ammunition
Psyflame Ammunition
Total: 285 pts

Grand Total: 746

I also Had a few other variants. The other main one would have a storm raven and 3 jokaero instead of the land raider. what do you think, not sure myself but i have a few other lists aswell. Another was the same HQ and troops with purifiers for elites still but 2 intercepter squads in fast attack. lots of varients but those were my main choices.

First of all, the Inquisitor is terrible in combat, even with Terminator armor and whatnot.

The only good use for an Inquisitor in combat is with Rad/Psyk-out grenades, a Force weapon and Hammerhand. This way, he strikes at +1 Strength most of the time and ignores armor saves, whilst the grenades seriously hurt any unit he and his unit charge. Infact, the combination of Hammerhand and Rad nades mean that the Inquisitor will usually be wounding his opponents on a 2+!

At this points level though, and considering the fact that you really don't have any dedicated melee units, I'd drop the LR and just have more Strike Squad Marines gunning with their Psycannons out the top of Rhinos - same with the Purifiers. Speaking of the Purifiers, Psybolt ammo is a waste of points on 5 man squads, and never take Incinerators or Psilencers over Psycannons. Never. Ever.

This list really is shaping up to be a shooting list though.

Sounds good, and maybe i can use the points to get more special weapons like halberds and then get more psybolt ammo. That way i can have my stike squads doing some serious damage from 24" then charging up as the main attack force. I will put the Purifiers in the land raider with the inquisitor and use the assault ramp with smoke launchers for cover...