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2011/05/19 13:46:08
Subject: Grenades
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Fresh-Faced New User
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I'd say the only real change you could do to assualt grenades is make units who charge with them strike before units with the same inititive. IE +0.5 Inititive.
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2011/05/20 13:11:15
Subject: Grenades
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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Riddick40k wrote:Well first off not everyone gets Krak and Frags, And even so some models have to pay for it, secondly Frag grenades have a smaller chance of hurting your own guys then Krak grenades
Actually krak grenades should have a lower chance of hurting infantry than frag grenades, because, well, fragmentation. Sure a Krak grenade would hurt more if it hit, but it has a greatly reduced chance of actually hitting in the first place.
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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2011/05/21 19:07:59
Subject: Grenades
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
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Riddick40k wrote:
Frag Grenades - S3, AP6 Small Blast
*Frag Grenades hurt both enemy and friendly models under the blast, The model underneath the center blast instead suffers a S4, AP5 wound, allocations and saves are as normal.
Krak Grenades - S5, AP6 Small Blast
*Krak Grenades hurt both enemy and friendly models under the blast, The model underneath the center blast instead suffers a S6, AP4 wound, allocations and saves are as normal.
Melta Bombs - S7, AP4 Small Blast
*Melta Bombs hurt both enemy and friendly models under the blast, the model underneath the center blast instead suffers a S8, AP1 wound, allocations and saves are as normal.
Frag grenades have a fragmentation effect which is why grenade launchers and missile launchers with Frag are a blast. Krak has not fragmentation, its merely a shockwave which would have very little chance of hurting anyone. Krak grenades would need to be constrained, like by part of a tank to do damage. Meltas are probably some sort of shaped charge that again has no blast effect.
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   Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++ |
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2011/05/22 05:24:25
Subject: Grenades
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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Frag grenades can't penetrate flak armor (indeed, it's almost specifically designed to guard against this kind of weapon)
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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2011/05/22 06:17:28
Subject: Grenades
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Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
California
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Exergy wrote:Riddick40k wrote:
Frag Grenades - S3, AP6 Small Blast
*Frag Grenades hurt both enemy and friendly models under the blast, The model underneath the center blast instead suffers a S4, AP5 wound, allocations and saves are as normal.
Krak Grenades - S5, AP6 Small Blast
*Krak Grenades hurt both enemy and friendly models under the blast, The model underneath the center blast instead suffers a S6, AP4 wound, allocations and saves are as normal.
Melta Bombs - S7, AP4 Small Blast
*Melta Bombs hurt both enemy and friendly models under the blast, the model underneath the center blast instead suffers a S8, AP1 wound, allocations and saves are as normal.
Frag grenades have a fragmentation effect which is why grenade launchers and missile launchers with Frag are a blast. Krak has not fragmentation, its merely a shockwave which would have very little chance of hurting anyone. Krak grenades would need to be constrained, like by part of a tank to do damage. Meltas are probably some sort of shaped charge that again has no blast effect.
Frag Missiles and the like are at best AP 6, so Flak stops them(sometimes)
Krak Grenades are a densely packed explosive charge designed to cut through light tank armor.
Melta Bombs are Fusion Pulse charges that simply use Fusion Heat to cut straight through anything short of AV 14.
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Dirty Harry wrote:I know what you're thinking. "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?
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2011/05/22 15:47:03
Subject: Grenades
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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Against fragmentation type weapons, flak armor is as effective as carapace in the lore. So it';s not just that it works against fragments sometimes-- that's specifically what it's best at defending against. And keep in mind that flak armor can also be part of cloth for slightly less protection, but still plenty against fragmentation weapons, so hell, even guardsman's pants protect them against grenades.
... how many times do I have to say that? lol...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/22 15:48:30
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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2011/05/22 16:29:06
Subject: Grenades
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Major
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Melissia wrote:Frag grenades can't penetrate flak armor (indeed, it's almost specifically designed to guard against this kind of weapon)
1+ In necromunda, Flak armor is just as strong as carapace armor versus fragmentation.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/22 16:29:21
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2011/05/22 22:19:37
Subject: Grenades
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Deadshot Weapon Moderati
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Melissia wrote:Frag grenades can't penetrate flak armor (indeed, it's almost specifically designed to guard against this kind of weapon)
Melissia wrote:Do you really want to get ten S4 attacks that always hit first every time a guard squad charges? Remember, I can easily get six of these cheaply and combine them into one unit which has several power weapons. That would do something along the lines of more than double the assault power of Guard, whom get their grenades for free.
Melissia wrote:The Acolyte wrote:Melissia wrote:Do you really want to get ten S4 attacks that always hit first every time a guard squad charges? Remember, I can easily get six of these cheaply and combine them into one unit which has several power weapons. That would do something along the lines of more than double the assault power of Guard, whom get their grenades for free.
I wasn't saying that grenades would still be free or 1pt. I meant if they were to be changed. Would be taken as like an extra weaponm upgrade per model.
So you would remove a lot of equipment from a lot of armies without giving them points back? Points that were, I should remind you, part of the cost of the unit when it was balanced out?
Melissia wrote:Frag grenades can't penetrate flak armor (indeed, it's almost specifically designed to guard against this kind of weapon)
Melissia wrote:Riddick40k wrote:Well first off not everyone gets Krak and Frags, And even so some models have to pay for it, secondly Frag grenades have a smaller chance of hurting your own guys then Krak grenades
Actually krak grenades should have a lower chance of hurting infantry than frag grenades, because, well, fragmentation. Sure a Krak grenade would hurt more if it hit, but it has a greatly reduced chance of actually hitting in the first place.
Melissia wrote:Against fragmentation type weapons, flak armor is as effective as carapace in the lore. So it';s not just that it works against fragments sometimes-- that's specifically what it's best at defending against. And keep in mind that flak armor can also be part of cloth for slightly less protection, but still plenty against fragmentation weapons, so hell, even guardsman's pants protect them against grenades.
... how many times do I have to say that? lol...
okay I admit my ideas were pretty rubbish but they were cool. I was thinking of things that might have been interesting to do. There was no need to continuously shoot me down. Then you moved onto shooting down other people aswell. Do you even have any ideas of your own?
PS i really liked the idea of the sticking attack and flack armour should suck against everything my opinion. Guardsmen are designed to die so... there armour should help them achieve this purpose
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"Innocence Proves Nothing... Except That You've Done Nothing Wrong"
Welcome to the Daemonhunters, the ranks of the exalted Ordo Malleus and their cannon fod....er, I mean, loyal allies. Remember...the only ones who need fear the righteous might of the Ordo Malleus are the Daemonic.
quote: Dashofpepper: ...sad rivulet of demon prince tears. He ponders for a moment, then lashes the demon hunters into him. He assaults them, kills a terminator or two....and then demon hunters being demon hunters....they proceed to wtfpwn him. Second player leaves the table... |
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2011/05/22 23:41:08
Subject: Grenades
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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Yeah, I do. My ideas are: frag grenades are fine as they are! The grenades for launchers are heavier than the thrown version and thus are more effective.
Flak armor doesn't suck against everything, in fact, it takes some impressive firepower that's often overkill on humans to penetrate it to begin with. Ork weapons are high caliber explosive ammunition-- basically primitive bolters-- and Flak Armor works against THAT.
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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2011/05/22 23:52:19
Subject: Grenades
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Stealthy Grot Snipa
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Melissia wrote:Yeah, I do. My ideas are: frag grenades are fine as they are! The grenades for launchers are heavier than the thrown version and thus are more effective.
Flak armor doesn't suck against everything, in fact, it takes some impressive firepower that's often overkill on humans to penetrate it to begin with. Ork weapons are high caliber explosive ammunition-- basically primitive bolters-- and Flak Armor works against THAT.
Sorry too burst your bubble but a Slugga/Shoota has AP5. Only Carapace armour will stop it not Flak Armour.
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2011/05/23 02:21:22
Subject: Grenades
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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InquisitorVaron wrote:Melissia wrote:Yeah, I do. My ideas are: frag grenades are fine as they are! The grenades for launchers are heavier than the thrown version and thus are more effective.
Flak armor doesn't suck against everything, in fact, it takes some impressive firepower that's often overkill on humans to penetrate it to begin with. Ork weapons are high caliber explosive ammunition-- basically primitive bolters-- and Flak Armor works against THAT.
Sorry too burst your bubble but a Slugga/Shoota has AP5. Only Carapace armour will stop it not Flak Armour.
Fail rebuttal is fail.
Slugga/Shoota are, respectively, R12" S4 AP6 Pistol 1, and R18" S4 AP6 Assault 2.
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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