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Another 2k List

HQ-

Farseer, runes of warding/witnessing/doom (105)
Autarch, Jetbike and Reaper Launcher (125)

Elites-
5x Fire Dragons , Wave Serpent Scatter Lazer (195)
5x Fire Dragons , Wave Serpent Scatter Lazer (195)
5x Fire Dragons , Wave Serpent Scatter Lazer (195)

Troops-
3x GJB (hang with autarch) (66)

5x Dire Avengers (chill in falcon) (60)
5x Dire Avengers , Wave Serpent Scatter Lazer (175)

10x Storm Guardians, 2 flamers, Wave Serpent with Scatter Lazer , warlock with destructor (242)
10x Storm Guardians, 2 flamers, Wave Serpent with Scatter Lazer , warlock with destructor (242)

Heavy Support -
Fire Prism (115)
Fire Prism (115)
Falcon , EML, Holo Field (230)


I think this list is probably better, Although thoughts of 3 wraithlord Avatar , 3 WW with EML/Starcannons , Squad of howling banshees , Double Autarch with Fusion Gun and Teleport Pack , Vypers , Warp Spiders , are all running through my head. One thing about this list is the 5 scoring units which is pretty cool.

One thought I had when I looked over the list, what are your thoughts on night spinners instead of the prisms? Just seem to fit the model of the build a little better, but it is late and I could have missed something.

I like it but I think your falcon point cost is off.

I agree with the 1 Farseer, but think Guide would work better than Doom, especially with non linking Fire Prisms and a Falcon.

Amanax wrote:One thought I had when I looked over the list, what are your thoughts on night spinners instead of the prisms? Just seem to fit the model of the build a little better, but it is late and I could have missed something.

yea im not opposed to them. There just strictly anti infantry and im under the impression I will need anti mech.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sarigar wrote:I like it but I think your falcon point cost is off.

I agree with the 1 Farseer, but think Guide would work better than Doom, especially with non linking Fire Prisms and a Falcon.

guided falcon mabe.

Falcon has cost of davus i think.

I'm not sure honestly. On paper the prism shines, but at closer look the nightspinner might even be a better anti tank weapon. Barrage weapon so it always hits side armor. Str 6 rending means that it can take out AV 14 (Though not as reliably as the prism, true) but then we get into dangerous terrain tests, even for the vehicles. I could be wrong, and the mathhammer might e completely in the favor of the prism, but they sound a bit even to me on the anti tank department, but flexibility goes to the nightspinner. Just my two cents. Take it as you will

I like doing mathhammer, somehow I find it relaxing. And its good to know in game what I should expect my units to do and not to do.

That said- I just ran the numbers between Fire Prism and Night Spinner, and the results are interesting.

I assumed that we are firing at a land raider. and further that our goal is only to immobalize it (or better)- since its primary role is as a transport for terminators.

For the sake of comparison- lets just assume the shot connects- since the land raider is a big target, and 2 of the shots will be twin linked anyway.

Goal: Immobalized Land Raider!

Single Fire Prism (s9 ap2 blast): 11.11%
Twin linked Prism (tl s10 ap1 blast): 27.77%
Single Spinner (tl s6 rending, DT): 20.37%

The reason that the Night Spinner does so well, is that if the Land Raider is doing its job- moving terminators, then the Spinner adds a flat 1/6 chance of immobalizing the land raider

Some non math hammer considerations- you won't get more benefits from firing more than one Spinner at a Land Raider- it only has to take one Dangerous Terrain test. That said, it has the potential to effect units besides just the land raider. Everything under its template is effected.

Both Prisms and Spinners are good tanks though, and they offer a lot of strategic possibilities to choose from. both would rather be digging into juicy infantry though- just in different ways.

Smitty:

I think an Avatar would actually be a good idea for your army...as long as he's STR9 or STR10?

I know of three Necron players going to the Alamo GT. Two of us have triple monoliths, and the third...I'm not sure if he's bringing two or three.

Firedragons don't kill monoliths, bright lances don't kill monoliths, war-walkers can't scratch the paint on a monolith...and the oft-repeated mantra "Ignore the monoliths and go for the phase out" only works if the Necron player either only has one monolith, possibly two - of if they aren't using their monoliths as body shields.

At the SVDM last year, there were two Necron players in the field, and my Orks hit them both - which I thought was funny.

GT play has shifted to light armour, and methods of dealing with light armour - which is interestingly making Necrons more viable. Still bad, still uncompetitive, but not as outclassed.

Bring that Avatar. We'll have a God fight.

*edit* I just got a PM in response to this thread, and there are now at least four confirmed Necron players going to the Alamo. =D

Dashofpepper wrote:Smitty:

I think an Avatar would actually be a good idea for your army...as long as he's STR9 or STR10?

I know of three Necron players going to the Alamo GT. Two of us have triple monoliths, and the third...I'm not sure if he's bringing two or three.

Firedragons don't kill monoliths, bright lances don't kill monoliths, war-walkers can't scratch the paint on a monolith...and the oft-repeated mantra "Ignore the monoliths and go for the phase out" only works if the Necron player either only has one monolith, possibly two - of if they aren't using their monoliths as body shields.

At the SVDM last year, there were two Necron players in the field, and my Orks hit them both - which I thought was funny.

GT play has shifted to light armour, and methods of dealing with light armour - which is interestingly making Necrons more viable. Still bad, still uncompetitive, but not as outclassed.

Bring that Avatar. We'll have a God fight.

*edit* I just got a PM in response to this thread, and there are now at least four confirmed Necron players going to the Alamo. =D

Unfortunately the Avatar got the short end of the stick there, he's WS 10, but he's only str 6.

If you want to deal with monoliths (and I'm not saying you do) your options are semi limited to:

Str 9 Witchblades/Singing Spears
Dcannons
Wraithcannons (or whatever the wraithguard gun is..)
Meltaguns from firedragons + prayer
Wraithlords actually making it on foot to assault (see prayer from above)
Haywires (who still gets these?)

Edit: I've always favored the wraithguard in a serpent with an attached warlock or Jetbike Seer Council, neither of which is dashingly cost effective

Dashofpepper wrote:Smitty:

I think an Avatar would actually be a good idea for your army...as long as he's STR9 or STR10?

I know of three Necron players going to the Alamo GT. Two of us have triple monoliths, and the third...I'm not sure if he's bringing two or three.

Firedragons don't kill monoliths, bright lances don't kill monoliths, war-walkers can't scratch the paint on a monolith...and the oft-repeated mantra "Ignore the monoliths and go for the phase out" only works if the Necron player either only has one monolith, possibly two - of if they aren't using their monoliths as body shields.

At the SVDM last year, there were two Necron players in the field, and my Orks hit them both - which I thought was funny.

GT play has shifted to light armour, and methods of dealing with light armour - which is interestingly making Necrons more viable. Still bad, still uncompetitive, but not as outclassed.

Bring that Avatar. We'll have a God fight.

*edit* I just got a PM in response to this thread, and there are now at least four confirmed Necron players going to the Alamo. =D

So your going to the Alamo GT? Make sure to say hi!

And you think I should bring a 3 Wraithlord List with an Avatar as opposed to the Mechdar list posted above?

I was always under the impression that the goal of someone playing against a necron army stacking momoliths is to phase them out because of a smaller unit count? Can I ignore the monoliths and just go for the phase out?

You can ignore the Monoliths, but a wise Necron player isn't going to let you get at his Warriors. When you factor in the Monolith and Reserves, hiding a 10-man unit isn't that difficult.

I would hardly base your tournament list on Necron Monoliths. There will be plenty of Marines / IG in San Antonio and they handle Wraithlords with ease.

Smitty0305 wrote:So your going to the Alamo GT? Make sure to say hi!

And you think I should bring a 3 Wraithlord List with an Avatar as opposed to the Mechdar list posted above?

I was always under the impression that the goal of someone playing against a necron army stacking momoliths is to phase them out because of a smaller unit count? Can I ignore the monoliths and just go for the phase out?

I'll be wearing a Dashofpepper shirt with my Avatar on it, so find me and drop a hello.

NO, you CANNOT ignore the monoliths and go for the phase out. That advice is as old as it is incorrect, and probably why my Necrons remain undefeated.

My army for example:

Deceiver
Destroyer Lord
11x Warriors
12x Warriors
9x Wraith
3x Monoliths

I can make a board edge triangle, a mid-field triangle, or a corner rectangle and fit my entire army into it. In the triangle formation, skimmers may have a narrow LOS through corners to get to me. Removing the board rectangle, I can fit everything into the triangle except for warriors, and position them to remove some of that narrow LOS opportunity.

In my army, my warriors sit in reserve and walk on from a table edge, preferably as late into the game as possible. You can't phase out an army that doesn't have the models you need to kill on the table. When they come in from reserve, its as far away from you as possible, in cover, and if you decide to go harass them, I'll teleport them 18-24" away; if you did much killing, they'll get a second WBB out of the trouble.

You can reliably expect a game against me to consist of 3-4 turns of only Monoliths as viable targets with assault units that have a 41" potential threat range desperately hoping to get into close combat with you. Well, except with the Avatar at any rate. STR6 attacks, and enough of them to have a good chance at bringing down wave serpents where my ordinance doesn't do the trick.

And with at *least* four Necron players at the tournament....do you really want to take the chance of getting paired up against something your army has no answer to?

Well. Fortunately Eldar have a few answers to Monoliths.

We can get s10 ap1 from a linked prism shot. which with a bit of luck can certainly down a 'lith.

The other option of course is good 'ol seer council o doom. s9 witchblades are scary things!

just brainstorming here, but something like this might work.

(133) Farseer- Bike, Warding, Spear, Fortune
(143) Farseer- Bike, Spear, Fortune, Doom
(413) 8 Jetlocks- 1 spear, 1 embolden, 1 enhance, 3 destrucotrs, 2 vanilla

(180) 5 Fire Dragons, Wave Serpent- tl shuri cannon
(180) 5 Fire Dragons, Wave Serpent- tl shuri cannon

(180) 5 Dire Avengers, Wave Serpent- tl missile
(180) 5 Dire Avengers, Wave Serpent- tl missile
(180) 5 Dire Avengers, Wave Serpent- tl missile
(180) 5 Dire Avengers, Wave Serpent- tl missile

(115) Fire Prism
(115) Fire Prism

Doubling up on farseers helps keep fortune up and running in the face of pyschic hoods. The second seer has doom. Still keeps 4 troops, and an impressive number of tanks on the table.

It should be able to tackle monolith's head on, and is still an all comers list- albiet a bit death starish.

Im not making a list with the intent to counter necrons....If I play a necron list Ill do my best based on the advice provided, but I dont have the need to make a list catered to necrons.

Against a necron list like the one Dashofpepper listed above, I would probably try to hide and take objectives late game. Im not sure if I would win , but I dont think I would come close to getting tabled and I would assume by turn 6 I would have a fair amount of mobility left to grab objectives. As far as kill points, I would probably loose.

I really appreciate the necron advice....tbh I havent played necrons in 5th because nobody in the dallas metroplex really plays anything not imperium.

My Goal in the Tournament is to do well and play competively. My goal isnt to win every game, rather to have a chance to win every game.

If anyone has any more tournament advice against specific armies Id appreciate it. I know a decent amount about how IG/SM work althoough I havent played against the new GK codex.

I think all In all I have around 6,000-10,000 pts in non apocalpse Eldar Models and can literally field anything in the codex.

If anyone has critiques in the two eldar lists above post em. I think the mechdar list is pretty solid and cokkie cutter and Ill probably bring that. I think the wraithlord list with an avatar would be interesting, but I probably need to add guide support, and Im not sure if I will get screwed with out an autarch in case I dont get first turn. I like 5 troops > 4 , and the mobility of the mechdar list is pretty insane. Although 3 wraithlords and an avatar are hilarious but against a legit shooting army I could see them getting dropped fast.

Smitty, I'm not suggesting that you make an army designed to fight Necrons at all. My own Dark Eldar have a single unit capable of killing monoliths - but a single unit is better than none.

You have nothing. Not a single weapon, nothing to challenge them. You at least need *something*.

You said that in an objective game against a list like mine, you would try to take objectives....but that won't work either. Monoliths can sit on objectives, wraiths can contest them late game with the same speed you have (and more). At least bring a POTENTIAL answer.

That's the very definition of a TAC army; something with the tools available to potentially win every game. You're missing some tools.

Dashofpepper wrote:Smitty, I'm not suggesting that you make an army designed to fight Necrons at all. My own Dark Eldar have a single unit capable of killing monoliths - but a single unit is better than none.

You have nothing. Not a single weapon, nothing to challenge them. You at least need *something*.

You said that in an objective game against a list like mine, you would try to take objectives....but that won't work either. Monoliths can sit on objectives, wraiths can contest them late game with the same speed you have (and more). At least bring a POTENTIAL answer.

That's the very definition of a TAC army; something with the tools available to potentially win every game. You're missing some tools.

so the wraithlord list as it stands or with modifications?

That's up to you.

I've seen some wraithlord + Avatar + Eldrad foot-slogging armies absolutely brutalize people in GTs.

Dashofpepper wrote:That's up to you.

I've seen some wraithlord + Avatar + Eldrad foot-slogging armies absolutely brutalize people in GTs.

Yea, it was once upon a time nicknamed "Eldzilla"

Personally, I think that dog won't bark anymore, and is of a forgotten day. Armies nowadays bring so many ways to deal with the light mech AV spam thats everywhere, that they will have the tools to deal with the wraithlords.

targetawg wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:That's up to you.

I've seen some wraithlord + Avatar + Eldrad foot-slogging armies absolutely brutalize people in GTs.

Yea, it was once upon a time nicknamed "Eldzilla"

Personally, I think that dog won't bark anymore, and is of a forgotten day. Armies nowadays bring so many ways to deal with the light mech AV spam thats everywhere, that they will have the tools to deal with the wraithlords.

But not wraithlords *and* all those AV12 skimmers at the same time. =p

Dashofpepper wrote:

targetawg wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:That's up to you.

I've seen some wraithlord + Avatar + Eldrad foot-slogging armies absolutely brutalize people in GTs.

Yea, it was once upon a time nicknamed "Eldzilla"

Personally, I think that dog won't bark anymore, and is of a forgotten day. Armies nowadays bring so many ways to deal with the light mech AV spam thats everywhere, that they will have the tools to deal with the wraithlords.

But not wraithlords *and* all those AV12 skimmers at the same time. =p

Meh, it takes less lascannon/missiles to down a wraithlord than a waveserpent on an average day. And each wraithlord costs as much (if not more) than a waveserpent. It's an even trade.

im probably gona bring the list with 5 troops and 9 tanks because its not hard to play.

I think an avatar without fortune will die in 1 turn of shooting, and wraithlords are probably easily managed by good players.

Not trying to beat a dead horse here....

But....you're gonna go with the list has no answer to a bunch of players there?

I guarantee that if you do well and come up against my Necrons, you're leaving the table as a sad panda.

Dashofpepper wrote:Not trying to beat a dead horse here....

But....you're gonna go with the list has no answer to a bunch of players there?

I guarantee that if you do well and come up against my Necrons, you're leaving the table as a sad panda.

Or its a conspiracy and your really bringing a mech dark eldar list and want me to bring wraithlords cause DE eats them.

Whats ur exact necron list?

I posted it above. And you can see my army on the registration page for the Alamo.

I've given up trying to simple-green/clean monoliths; I did it for one - I took them apart to clean and reprime them, am going to get rid of the third and just buy another one on Saturday. Its a race for time to try getting everything assembled and ready for the Alamo! =D The wraiths are done, the destroyer Lord got clear-coated tonight, the custom themed Deceiver is on the finishing touches of paint, and the warriors/monoliths still need work. Warriors are primed, monoliths...one is primed, one is in pieces and finished cleaning tonight, and one is a lost cause, which I'll replace on Saturday.

Look at my list on page 1. 3 TL BL(if not get 4 BL serpents) should do the trick, and you can guide them as an extra measure.

Depending on the mission and where the objectives are placed.... you should be good to go if you take 1 or 2 of the monoliths.

SonsofVulkan wrote:Look at my list on page 1. 3 TL BL(if not get 4 BL serpents) should do the trick, and you can guide them as an extra measure.

Depending on the mission and where the objectives are placed.... you should be good to go if you take 1 or 2 of the monoliths.

You are apparently missing some critical information here. Living Armour ignores the Lance Rule, so you're still STR8 against AV14.

Dashofpepper wrote:Smitty, I'm not suggesting that you make an army designed to fight Necrons at all. My own Dark Eldar have a single unit capable of killing monoliths - but a single unit is better than none.

You have nothing. Not a single weapon, nothing to challenge them. You at least need *something*.

2 Fire Prisms and a Farseer.

Or the Wraithlords and a Farseer.

Not a great chance, but better than 0.