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A friend of mine continually loses battles (sometimes to me also lol)

But what he does every time he loses is make changes to his force. He trys different strategies, different combos!

He may still lose more often than he wins but I am noticing he is improving quite alot!

Wow, thats a long stretch of losses. --It would be a record if you were a professional sports team.

I dont know what to tell you, remember that you cant take this game too seriously. Like many other games, the primary driver is probability in Warhammer. You can have the greatest spam list, with the best strategy, but it doesnt help you much if your rolling all 1's! There is no reason a twin-linked lascannon should miss its target 3 turns in a row...but it does, there is no reason a death company marine should be cut down in CC by a guardian, but it happens.

Its simply the luck of the dice, players can argue this point all they like, but the game is based largely on luck. So remember to keep having fun with it, maybe try a new army if you are not having much luck with the one you have now. Or find a few players and play a 2vs.2 battle -- see if you guys can pull off the win together and then your army will regain some of its confidence. Best of luck and may you win a damn game soon!

jordanis wrote:sorry about the run on, i forget where the . is sometimes and ill post my current 1500 list (the one where i get the closest to drawing with) and input would be wonderful. the ordnance rule i know, but for almost a year we ruled it as "if it moves, it cannot indirect fire, but can direct fire" which threw me off when my close friends started saying i was cheating, when i was just playing the way we have always been playing. and about the GL's on vets, i currently only run them on one vet squad because they have nice range, are the cheapest upgrade, and are good against most Heavy infantry other than MEQs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
HQ:
CCS 155
4 meltas
Plasma pistol
Chimera w/ hull flamer

CCS 155
4 meltas
Plasma pistol
Chimera w/ hull flamer

Troops:

platoon
PCS 105
4 flamers
chimera w/ hull flamer

InfS 65
flamer
Power sword
InfS 65
flamer
Power sword
infS 100
flamer
power sword
commissar

HWS 75
3 AC’s

HWS 90
3 ML’s

HWS 105
3 LC’s

Vet Squad 150
Harker
3 GL’s
HB
Heavy support 300
Leman russ tank

Leman russ tank

Fast Attack

Hellhound flame tank w/hull flamer 130

total: 1495

Here's the thing, the game is 100% not all about winning, but you need to play to your goals. Is it important to you to have an overall winning record? (Win more than you lose). Or is it important to go for the comradery, and you couldn't care less if you win. Or painting, etc.

Whatever your goal is (and from here on I'll assume it's winning a fair amount since you talk about your losing streak), you need to bring what it takes to accomplish it.

If my goal is best painted, I spend oodles of time making sure that army is done to perfection.

If it's winning, I bring a tough list. That being said...your list is pretty uncompetitive. If you're playing at places with guys who like to smash heads and bring tough lists every week, then you're going to be on a losing streak (through no real fault of your own) using that list.

The strongest units IG has to offer:
-Melta vets in chimeras
-Vendettas
-Manticores
-Hydras

Your list doesn't include many of these, and also just lacks focus in general. Look at the harker unit: the purpose of outflanking (typically) is to get side armor on enemy tanks, put a unit in scoring position, or blast away at backfield elements like long fangs. Grenade launchers don't let you do any of that (they're god awful to be honest).

Harkers unit: plasma or melta. I prefer melta.

Power blob: Why not support your Harker theme with an Al'Rahem led unit with a couple chimeras of infantry rather than this foot blob.

If not that, try using melta mech vets

Leman russes: not optimal, but they can work, if you like em, keep em.

Vendettas: unfortunately, these are too good to pass up in any guard list. Drop in 2-3 of these and watch your games get monumentally easier.

These are some rough points, and many may not like them, but if your goal is winning and you bring a bad list...no amount of generalship is going to salvage it typically. Don't beat yourself up about losing, every game is a new game. If you're playing tough lists and you make games even close with that above list, you're not a terrible player.

OP:

Tactics are just as important as the list you bring.

If you don't have it, download Vassal - it lets you play 40k against people around the world from your computer. vassal40k.info

What you need is a mentor. There are several very good IG players on Vassal, and the best thing you could do is to jump on Vassal, learn the interface, set up a game, and have one of the very good IG players watching the game, talking to you on Skype (voicechat) so that you can step-by-step explain what you're doing and why and get feedback on your decisions.

Alternatively, you could solicit an opponent for a teaching game; a lot of the games that I end up playing on Vassal are against people who specifically look me up so that I can give them feedback during the game about the decisions that they are making, or to help them improve their tactics after the game.

Find yourself a mentor.

matphat wrote:If winning is important to you, and certainly anyone should be craving a win after 35 losses, it's probably time for you to take the next steps towards that win.

What are those steps?

1.) Know the rules inside and out.
Read the big red book, front to back, several times. come to the point where you know it inside and out. If something is unclear, google it, if google can't find the answer, then come to Dakka and ask. This is the first step to winning. You cannot make a winning move unless you know the rules and you can have to wool pulled over your eyes if you aren't clear on the rules.

2.) Know your army inside and out.
Memorize your army's codex. Understand every ability they have. Watch/Read Batreps until you can't find anymore. Study winning army lists. Build the best army list you can come up with and then let Dakka tear it down for you. Rebuild it again. Make 500, 1000, 1500, and 2000 point army lists to practice your list making ability. If you know yourself, then you are half way to winning.

3.) Play. A lot. And without ego.
After you have 1 and 2 down, go play again. Keep it cool. Don't invest your whole being in every roll you make. Don't get red in the face at every model your opponent kills. Just play to play. Play to enjoy the mechanics, the terrain, the models, the culture. And just do what you know you should.

You follow all three of those suggestions, I can promise you, you will win a game, if not a string of games.

But you have to honestly tackle 1 and 2 and get em right. Otherwise all bets are off.

this

My advice for getting better:

Find an opponent who will let you play with his army. You play a game against him with your usual army. Then you switch armies and play again.

If he beats you with your own army, pay attention to what he did. He is teaching you how to use your army.

If you beat him, the losing streak is over! All Hail Solorg!

Repeat.

jordanis wrote:so ive been in this hobby for about a year now, and due to a particularly long string of losses i am really starting to doubt my abilities to play wargames effectively, which is causing me to want to leave, i need help, because i have invested too much time and money to just call it quits like this, but at the same time, im tired of losing, my losing streak just hit 35 games last week, idk what im doing wrong, everyone tells me my lists are fine and my strategy is decent, but i dont think so. also, it seems like rules that i have been using since i started are suddenly changing (talking about 40k) for no particular reason, just that appearantly people are now enterpretting the rulebook differently. anyone else ever been in this predicament before? and how did you fix it?

Seriously?

I feel that it may be time for you to go back to square one with someone who is knowledgable of the rules, and go step by step and relearn the game. I'm not trying to be funny, but in your sentence here, you mentioned that "Other people are interpriting the rules differently then you are." It would help for you to start out with a basic 2-5 squads, and relearn each and every facit of play, from close combat, to shooting, to heavy weapons, to even of all things cover and small unit tactics. Double squad cover, while one moves, while another still follows up behind the two covering, so you don't catch yourself in a crossfire.

As much as it pains me to say, I have a feeling that YOU are missing something, it isn't just other people interpreting the rules differently. Just one guys opinion, please don't take it the wrong way.

no i said people are interpretting rules differently than they have in the past. i know how game mechanics work (shooting, moving, assault) its some of the more complex rules that get me.

jordanis wrote: its some of the more complex rules that get me.

Exactly!

I feel like the message you are sending to us here is that you really don't know the game that well, and you're suffering losses for it.

The answer we are giving you, is "Learn the rules". Either through sheer force of determination and hard work, or
by finding a kindly and experienced gamer to show you.

/thread

im gonna back up Grot 6 here

35 losing streak without a lucky win one way or another is just...odd

Hyperbole?

Ok heres my 2 cents on what you could do to improve.

Firstly do the research on your army this includes searching sites like this for tactics and army list ideas, it can save you alot of brush time/money if you know exactly what units etc you are going to need.

And secondly after reading your codex again go back and reread any special rules in the rule book that relate to your army and check to see if there have been any FAQs that effect you while you are at it.

And as dash has said find someone who wants to teach you, most vets are more then happy to try and help a noob out as it makes them feel like they are molding you into the perfect killing machine (I had the joy of watching my regular gamng buddy who Ive been helping for the last 6 months curb stomp some poor bloke last week)

Bakerfish wrote:

im gonna back up Grot 6 here

35 losing streak without a lucky win one way or another is just...odd

It is unusual but not that odd to lose a large amount. As stated before I lost 32 straight with my Daemon Army. At first it was just not getting used to the game mechanics as well as getting the opportunity to play with the codex before it was out on the streets. Did a bit of proxying with models that I did not have at the time and messed up on what units that they were in game play. My Mono God army wins and losses are now 112W and 72L. My Poly God army is 7W and 0L. I do not play much with my Poly God Army since I like the Beauty of my Juan Diaz Army, so it is my choice to play them when I can.

There is a learning curve with any army as well as your playing style that takes into affect. The IG army is deceptively difficult to master IMHO.

Then there is the area that you are playing. I know that area he is playing. Brutal. If you really want to get your skills honed (or get boned), go there.

Anyhow. The Op needs to understand that this is only a game and in time (as well as taking the advice from the people in the site for helping him out on his list and ETC.) he will win a few games.

I also think he should start making lists in the 500 point to 1000 point range. This is how I mentor people on how to play 40K.

Adam Longwalker!!

are you a Juan Diaz Daemonette/Slaanesh army player to

I also love my Mono demons army for exactly the same reason!!

Absolutely Redeyed. I just love my army to just play.

I have 135 daemonettes, (85 painted)
50 seekers (20 painted need 10 more)
I have 18 models of the first ED Fiends of Slaanesh (because they fit my army)
I have 3 2nd (or 3rd) ED Slaanesh Daemon Princes painted
2 Keepers of Seekers (the goat head version) painted
1 Masque.

Need to build up my heralds in chariots and my regular heralds.

I'm not sure if you'd be willing to do this, but try a differnt army. I've been playing for a year and a half now, and I've got both an Ork army, and a Space Marine one as well. I find that I almost always lose with my space marines(I've won maybe 3 out of 30 games with them), yet with my Orks, I'll come out with a win / draw about 50% of my games. Some people just have a better natural understanding for certain codicies then others.

Update:Saturday night i won, ig vs ba 1500pts, i tabled my opponent in the top of turn 2. I give full credit to the recent addition of a vendetta Gunship to my army

I don't know if I've lost 35 in a row, but probably pretty close. My win/loss/draw record is probably something like 10/152/3

I know I suck at wargaming, but I don't play to win I play to hang out with friends and have fun and show off the minis I've been spending the last 2 months painting.

jordanis wrote:Update:Saturday night i won, ig vs ba 1500pts, i tabled my opponent in the top of turn 2. I give full credit to the recent addition of a vendetta Gunship to my army

Congratulations! Glad to hear it!

Gratz on the win. It sounds like one change made a big difference.

After a skim through the last half of this:

Know your enemy.
As long as you know your army well, knowing what to take out first will make it easier to use them.

Not that I have tried it, but ask to borrow the codex of your most common opponent's army. Read their special rules, and know what they can do.