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I played them in some AB test games, and the first game against them, they killed some squishee stuff and got stuck on my 40 block of horrors for the game.

2nd game I did the miasma to slow them down and avoided them until everything else died. (dual flamer units have rediculous threat range) And finished them off on turn 5.

3rd match: I did soulblight, and cast okhams on the daemonettes, with my bloodletters on the flank and killed 19 in a single round. out of his 19.

I run a horde of 48 PG with Korhil and they have had Okkam's Mindrazor on them every magic phase (thanks to teclis). I'd like to have a go at the chosenstar with that unit.

Yup according to the rules they have to take MR if they roll it, it does not say if they already have MR 3 reroll this result like it does for fear and terror.

I have seen the chosenstar a few times. It dominated about half the time, but the sharper adversaries just ignored it or fed it fodder. It never came close to making its points back and the rest of the chaos army was just killed off around it. It does take a mobile army to make this work, though--or tons of magic or shooting.

Ah, good.

And: to everyone who would ever even think of responding to the statement "unit X is pretty tough" with "I beat it with a unit of X with Okkam's Mind Razor", I say: please stop. We know. It's not unusual, it's not cunning, it's just a great spell, being used as it was intended.

Getting that spell to work may be a bit of a challenge, but not with Teclis or Kairos.

For the record, though:

40 horrors with no Herald shouldn't last terribly long against a unit like this--and the Herald should die rather quickly, if an opponent is cunning.

10 Flamers are sending out 40 shots. Assuming they need 4's and 4's, that's 10 wounds/10 Flamers/turn, which turns to 5 (assuming S4 shots. I don't even remember--do they have AP or anything?), and then 1-2 actual casualties.

Do Pheonix Guard have one or two attacks? The Chosen will be hitting you on 4's and wounding on 2's (assuming +1 S). You'll be hitting them on 4's (with a re-roll) and wounding on 2's (assuming Mindrazor, of course). You both negate armour. His Ward save is 16% better than yours. You hit 25% more often than he does (assuming they have 2 attacks. Otherwise, you hit 25% less).
So really, even with the super-spell, it's not a hopeless fight for them.

If we're doing Teclis and Kohril, why not do...I don't even know what special characters are worthwhile for Warriors anymore. Point-efficiency doesn't even matter.

So. Once again. The odds of being able to casually sweep away this unit aren't that good.

What ward save do the Chosen star have. Also, I wouldn't be going in with just the PG horde and mindrazor. I'd cast the - to strength spell on them and see what I could gain from that.

And as I stated before, I run a lvl 4 life and a Teclis with shadow, so it isn't entirely hard to cast flesh to stone on my PG either.

I'm not saying that everyone can do what I tooled my list to do, but I'm saying that horde unit of PG is pretty insane with the magic buffs it gets.

I'm fine with adding special characters to the chosen star. I'm just telling you what I run in a 'ard list. And if I knew I was going to be playing that list, I'd probably drop Caradryan in with the PG as well instead of the Seaguard unit he runs with.

PG only have 1 attack each.

...Chosenstar: Mark of Tzeetnch. Terror banner. Champion with Favour of the Gods. Eye of the Gods. Re-roll until you get Stubborn and 4+ Ward, which turns to a 3+ Ward.

That's...that's the whole reason they are good. Chosen are just expensive Warriors with +1 WS and some (most likely lame) ability otherwise.

So you cast all these spells. I'll assuming that the WoC player can manage something similar, if less awesome.

3+ ward is pretty nice. I don't know WoC as well as I want to, but why do they get to re-roll until they get what they want?

Even if I didn't cast anything other than Okkam's Mindrazor on my PG horde, they would still be throwing out 30+ attacks (assuming full frontage contact) that are ASF (most likely re-rollable), Str 9 and magical (amulet of light to deal with treemen and demons). Korhil makes them stubborn too.

So, Eye of the Gods results that give you Fear and Terror say that if you already cause them, you reroll. So, you take the banner that lets you cause Terror.
The champion of the unit takes the Favour of the Gods, which lets him add or subtract one from the roll.
Then, you have Shrines to pile on the buffs.

I believe the options are +1 S, +1 T, or the Ward. So with two Shrines, it's guaranteed to generate the Stubborn Ward.

So, assuming max. frontage and all that, they'll throw out 40+ attacks at S5. So you both hit on 4's, wound on 2's, and negate armour.

You'll probably win the grind, considering Initiative, but even with Mind Razor, it's going to be a tough fight.

Why do you need magical attacks for Daemons?

I will have to admit my lack of knowledge about demons, but i was under the impression you could negate some of their wars saves with magical attacks like treemen. /sheepish grin

As an O&G general, we're one of the least equipped armies to fight chosen.

With the old book, the tactic was to equip two characters, one with the triksy trinket (negates ward saves) and one with the trickster shard (re-roll ward saves) to go character and shrine hunting, tarpit the chosen with cheap gobbos and chase the rest of his army with whatever else you have (WoCs are good targets for doom divers because ignores AS, marauders make good targets for rock lobbas as they're T3, low armour).

Of course, casting the old edition mork'll fix it essentially reduced their armour and ward saves by 1 (all 6s counted as 1s).

On one especially lucky dice day I managed to take out a shrine on turn 1 with a lobba which meant the chosen did not get the ward for the whole of the game. On another a unit of big'uns with the waagh spell successfully broke a chosenstar with the mork'll fix it spell (he rolled lots of sixes on armour and ward saves).

With the new book I'm yet to play them, but I'll keep the artillery handy for marauders and regular WoCses, keep the wyvern-mounted warboss with tricksters shard to hunt mages and shrines, and throw lots of cheap gobbos at the chosen while chariots, manglers and pump wagons go for marauders and WoCs.

I know that unless I can get itchy nuisance + curse of the bad moon I can't win kill them, so I'd rather go around.

If you get Brain Bursta on an orc shaman; assassinate that chosen unit champ on turn 1, and strip away his +1/-1 option.
Then ichy them to slow them down; followed up with repeated doom diving.

Considering the chosen have a 1++ against magic, highly doubt you will be sniping the champion.

1) See this unit across the table
1.5) note that your inner monologue has now devolved into a stream of curses and insults for the Dbag running this list.
2) actually force the opponent to do all the re-rolling the rules require him to do
3) stick your pope wagon 8 inches deep into the chosen star
4) use the 3-4 turns all his re-rolling have left to mop up the rest of his radically weakened army.
5) Laugh.

I, too, have considered playing the chosen deathstar - haven evne played with it once without all the boosts - good unit but prefer 3 units of warriors and will eventually add a least a horde of marauders. I have a hard time calling chosen cheesy, because Chaos units (not including gw marauders) are pricey albeit capable units and chosen are really pricey. I also have a hard time calling them cheesy (again have a unit painted but use them almost exclusively as halberd warriors) when any number of spells and spell combinations can nerf them down and slice and dice them up. With a hellcannon and trolls in my army adding more dice roll madness seems imprudent. So the question is - has my son made a good point that all the magic madness, and T8 monsters and t10 stanks, broken calvary (not Chaos) and elves that charge across the table like hormagaunts - (taking a breath here) - MAYBE ITS TIME TO PLAY 40k or maybe just pick another gaming system all together, because GW hates balanced gaming and hates its customers the way they break and orphan models and armies to boost product sales. Look at the tactics discussion - terrain has never been as critical to WH as it has to 40K but movement, charge ranges, feints, etc. were important - now you paint 120 models so a wizard can make them vanish in two turns due to destruction and panic - again look at the discussion - not really aimed at defeating balanced competition but at gimmicks against gimmicks (again breath here). I have about 5000 points of WofC painted and more unpainted, also old Tomb Kings, but what the heck...enough ranting - time to mow the lawn

Honestly people blow magic out of proportion, cause in one game, they got a bad beat with a super spell....

Yes dwellers sucks to be hit with, it should honestly get LoS rolls. However in the age of 30-50 count infantry units there needs to be something to thin them down...

I can count on one hand the number of times a super spell has cost me the game. People just remember that one time they got dwellered, their general and lvl 4 failed their test, their dice abandoned them, and they lost 3/4 the unit when math wise they should have lost less than half.

The one time I was really really cursing a super spell was when a skaven player managed to cast the 13th, 3 turns in a row, without rolling IF and me failing to dispell it on 6 dice, completely decimating 40 letters... But like I said, I can count on one hand the number of times something like that has happened.

Admittedly, the winds of magic are fickle - I basically army killed by turn 2 or 3 each time, 3 opponents who outnumbered and outmagicked me, but their magic, while doing me damage, I either fended off or it failed them and then I was on them and it was over. i used a single sorc lord, Shadows, Tzentch or Death. they deployed poorly and my knights and warriors ate them alive for it. The last game purple sun ran 30 inches across his lines before it stopped. And then the troops hit his lines. Yikes. So yes, they played poorly, and it gave me hope there is more to the game than magic, but still powerful magic plus good dice rolls = disaster.

One side note: A Slaanesh sorc with Hysterical Frenzy is a nice addition to the Chosen Star. Frenzy with d6 Str 3 wounds to the unit is totally worth it to give ItP and the extra attack.

I think though that the Chosen Star as a worry is a little over blown. It is the best deathstar in the game, but something has to be. There isn't a great way of dealing with it, but there are ways. Plus you don't see many people fielding it, so I gather anyway. I suspect it is one of those things that is more scary to think about than the actual amount of pain it has brought in aggregate. Sort of like how people were theory hammering 300 marauder armies when 8th first came out, the main difference being that the Chosen Star has an achievable number of models in the combo, as opposed to three freaking hundred.

Wehrkind wrote:One side note: A Slaanesh sorc with Hysterical Frenzy is a nice addition to the Chosen Star. Frenzy with d6 Str 3 wounds to the unit is totally worth it to give ItP and the extra attack.

I think though that the Chosen Star as a worry is a little over blown. It is the best deathstar in the game, but something has to be. There isn't a great way of dealing with it, but there are ways. Plus you don't see many people fielding it, so I gather anyway. I suspect it is one of those things that is more scary to think about than the actual amount of pain it has brought in aggregate. Sort of like how people were theory hammering 300 marauder armies when 8th first came out, the main difference being that the Chosen Star has an achievable number of models in the combo, as opposed to three freaking hundred.

If chosen were core, it'd be a problem.
The CStar isn't an issue, because your opponent must put 25% of his points somewhere else on the table.

-Matt

Well, 25% of Warriors isn't too shabby either

My doom divers disagree

Wehrkind wrote:Well, 25% of Warriors isn't too shabby either

3 units of 50 marauders with mark of khorne and great weapon hurt.... (and only cost 270 points)

Don't I know it! (Which makes it all the more confusing that I only run 1 unit of 30...)

Wehrkind wrote:One side note: A Slaanesh sorc with Hysterical Frenzy is a nice addition to the Chosen Star. Frenzy with d6 Str 3 wounds to the unit is totally worth it to give ItP and the extra attack.

Usually, I'm relieved when a deathstar is frenzied. Required overruns increase my ability to *not* fight the thing and instead feed it cheap stuff until I've gone after the rest of the army. But that is a cool trick if you can control your matchups.

The nice thing with the Slaaneshi spell is that it is RiP. So if you want to be cheeky, you cast it during your turn, fight a lot, then cancel it before over run. Even if you don't want to be a prick like that, you can cancel it during the magic phase if it looks like you are going to win the combat pretty easily, and just not be frenzied. I really like the versatility, especially considering it is really embarrassing to have your MoK guys fluff a combat, lose by like one, then run around with a 30 point mark that isn't doing anything at all the rest of the game.

Ooo. Well played, sir. Remains in Play, for the flexibility win...