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US Republic in the first place. Second of all we do have a choice, its just that the Democrats and Republicans usually take the ideas of the third or fourth parties.

Also, its not because he's black(although some may see it as that). If a white guy says he's from Kenya it would be hard to believe simply due to the odds. Same concept applies to when people think of Africa they think of a black person and forget about South Africa's white population.

Obama's father was Kenyan citizen and his mother was an American citizen, that's why it went so far.

Manchu wrote:

Melissia wrote:Probably not. Birthers are all pretty nutty.

That's true. Never let facts stand in the way of your argument, right?

I think long form birth certificates should be required before posting on the intranetz.

On the positive, now I can call Obama "Junior"


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Phototoxin wrote:

biccat wrote:

Phototoxin wrote:I hope the birthers are asking for the next president's birth cert. I would have assumed that as a requirment is 'being american' that you need to prove these sort of things before being allowed run anyway...

It's only cos he's black. Frigging joke.

I hope the "it's only cos he's black" was the joke. But I would agree with your second point, I had assumed that one requirement to run for office was to present a valid birth certificate (since one requirement of being President is "Natural Born Citizen").

Who was the last white president who's identity needed to be proved?

I do think its partial racism... if he was white and blonde saying he's kenyan wouldn't get you very far. But yes its mostly an Ali G 'is it coz I is black' joke. The whole thing is a farce. US democracy... you have a binary choice... not really a choice at all to be honest.

Actually he would have to eventually. Several states have now passed legislation (or at least pending) requiring proof. We should note this was also an issue for McCain, but the Senate passed a resolution so it was all good.

Phototoxin wrote:Who was the last white president who's identity needed to be proved?

I do recall there was some discussion about whether McCain was eligible to run for President due to his birth in the Panama Canal zone. I don't recall how this coincided with the Obama birther issue.

Also, there was a major push by nutjobs on the Left to suggest that G.W. Bush's military records were somehow tainted. I believe a major journalist eventually stepped down for reporting on false documents.

I don't think I've got a long form certificate for myself.

It won't matter if all the states require proof. The Birthers are already finding reasons why the long form certificate is a forgery.

The coalition of angry swift boaters or whatever they were called weren't an underhanded conservative nutjob scheme though, right? I think most of the disparity about Dubyahs military service wasn't about paperwork, but about his attempt to come off as some kind of real hero about it. The embarrassingly transparent carrier visit where he actually flew the plane (except for the take off and landing parts) kind of helped fan that flame.

mister robouteo wrote:The coalition of angry swift boaters or whatever they were called weren't an underhanded conservative nutjob scheme though, right?

Right.

mister robouteo wrote:I think most of the disparity about Dubyahs military service wasn't about paperwork, but about his attempt to come off as some kind of real hero about it. The embarrassingly transparent carrier visit where he actually flew the plane (except for the take off and landing parts) kind of helped fan that flame.

Do you think the Navy (or Secret Service) would really let a pilot who hadn't flown for 30 years try to take off or land a multi-million dollar aircraft on an aircraft carrier (which AFAIK he had never done before, he was National Guard, and I think all of his experience was land-based), all while risking the president's life?

I understand the reasoning behind it. But why try and play it off for the press that the President flew his own plane? Was my point. It just gave people something else to make fun of.

mister robouteo wrote:I understand the reasoning behind it. But why try and play it off for the press that the President flew his own plane? Was my point. It just gave people something else to make fun of.

He wore a flight suit because its customary to wear a flight suit and helmet when one rides in a jet aircraft.

Admit it. He really needed a Santa hat.

Frazzled wrote:Admit it. He really needed a Santa hat.

And an easter basket.

Manchu wrote:

Melissia wrote:Probably not. Birthers are all pretty nutty.

That's true. Never let facts stand in the way of your argument, right?

Something like that. I recall there was one birther tossing incorrect bible quotes out, and his preacher corrected him. He shrugged and continued using the wrong quote once he got out of church because it suited his argument.

I question why a person has to be born here anyway. It's hardly appropriate for a nation of immigrants with equal rights. For that matter, the 35 year thing doesn't make sense either. Suppose I was very qualified, 34 years old, and came to the country when I was 6 months old? I guess I would have to concede that I am unqualified for the job based on rules written back in the age of sailing ships where 35 was "old", much like arguing about the rules for the electoral college or districting that were written when there was horse-drawn-carriage travel involved with having a say in government representation. Those that back it because it hurts the opposing team have no reasonable explaination of it other than that it is "the rules". Rules that make no sense due to being outdated should be overturned, not coddled to on the sole qualifier of being The Rules.

mister robouteo wrote:I question why a person has to be born here anyway. It's hardly appropriate for a nation of immigrants with equal rights. For that matter, the 35 year thing doesn't make sense either. Suppose I was very qualified, 34 years old, and came to the country when I was 6 months old? I guess I would have to concede that I am unqualified for the job based on rules written back in the age of sailing ships where 35 was "old", much like arguing about the rules for the electoral college or districting that were written when there was horse-drawn-carriage travel involved with having a say in government representation. Those that back it because it hurts the opposing team have no reasonable explaination of it other than that it is "the rules". Rules that make no sense due to being outdated should be overturned, not coddled to on the sole qualifier of being The Rules.

Because its in the Constitution. RAW!!!

Because even though we're a nation of immigrants we want to keep an American culture. If some guy from Mexico came over and lived here for 35 years and became the president of the United States without assimilating into the American culture I would have a hard time following him.

Being born in America also means that you're tied to America and helps prevent foreign influence in matters.

I think his point was that if you've lived here since you were 6 months old, you would have completely assimiliated.

If your family were so resistant to assimilation that you wouldn't have, the difference of those six months would be entirely irrelevant.

biccat wrote:

daedalus-templarius wrote:Don't worry, they will find something else.

I mean, I don't recommend it, but on other forums I frequent I've seen snippets of comments from fox and other places...

To them, its a forgery and a 50 year old (or however old obama is) kingmaker play from the secret society that runs the world. Or something.

Oh, there's something else (that the birth certificate just released doesn't address), but it's a stupid argument.

Also, in my experience Fox has been pretty dismissive of the issue. I think even Beck called it the "dumbest thing I'd ever heard."

Was mostly talking about the people in the comments section, but they've given plenty of airtime to questioning his 'Merican authenticity.

I was happy when Papa Bear (O'Reilly) actually came out and said the birther's are wrong. I still don't particularly like him, but hes not a complete nutbag like Beck.

The Birther movement is idiotic for 2 reasons:

1) Obama was clearly born in Hawaii. Even before this, there was more than enough evidence to show that he was born in Hawaii. He had shown a certification of live birth in 2008, which is all that is needed to prove anything!

2) The entire Birther movement relies on the phrase "Natural Born Citizen". They interpret this to mean "born on US soil". But, that definition is only 1 of the 2 ways a child can be born as a US citizen. The other way is for your parent to be a US citizen! So, even if Obama was born in Kenya, his mother was still a US citizen, so he was a still a natural born citizen.


Now, I hope this will be the end of the birther movement. But, I think I'm giving too much credit to the logical part of people...

Grakmar wrote:The Birther movement is idiotic for 2 reasons:

1) Obama was clearly born in Hawaii. Even before this, there was more than enough evidence to show that he was born in Hawaii. He had shown a certification of live birth in 2008, which is all that is needed to prove anything!

2) The entire Birther movement relies on the phrase "Natural Born Citizen". They interpret this to mean "born on US soil". But, that definition is only 1 of the 2 ways a child can be born as a US citizen. The other way is for your parent to be a US citizen! So, even if Obama was born in Kenya, his mother was still a US citizen, so he was a still a natural born citizen.


Now, I hope this will be the end of the birther movement. But, I think I'm giving too much credit to the logical part of people...

I have a problem with #2 here. Forgive my elitist dismissal of the notion of an educated majority of voters, but how many people who eat this garbage up on the news are aware of this? Unfortunately, and again I go back to the "should be ashamed" rant, I would have hoped that the people making a stink about it would at least have been aware of it. Maybe the only reason they haven't gone after his mother proving her citizenship is that it would look bad to the patriotic family values dupes if they made a dig at a guy's mom.

"Rowdy" Roddy Piper has the glasses, and can see exactly what the Birthers are about.

(Warning, NSFW language).

Mannahnin wrote:I think his point was that if you've lived here since you were 6 months old, you would have completely assimiliated.

If your family were so resistant to assimilation that you wouldn't have, the difference of those six months would be entirely irrelevant.

All this talk of assimilation...

Grakmar wrote:The Birther movement is idiotic for 2 reasons:

1) Obama was clearly born in Hawaii. Even before this, there was more than enough evidence to show that he was born in Hawaii. He had shown a certification of live birth in 2008, which is all that is needed to prove anything!

2) The entire Birther movement relies on the phrase "Natural Born Citizen". They interpret this to mean "born on US soil". But, that definition is only 1 of the 2 ways a child can be born as a US citizen. The other way is for your parent to be a US citizen! So, even if Obama was born in Kenya, his mother was still a US citizen, so he was a still a natural born citizen.


Now, I hope this will be the end of the birther movement. But, I think I'm giving too much credit to the logical part of people...

A person born to a US citizen on foreign soil(outside of an embassy or military base in a foreign country) can apply for dual citizenship and once that child turns 18 he/she can choose a citizenship.


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The same thing applies to State senators, they have to of had lived in a state for a certain amount of time. It helps make sure that you understand the people that you're supposed to represent along with the values they hold.

mister robouteo wrote:I have a problem with #2 here.

Do you mean that #2 is incorrect? Because it (probably) is, at least, as it relates to "natural born citizen."

mister robouteo wrote:Forgive my elitist dismissal of the notion of an educated majority of voters

It's not elitist if it's true. Very few voters are actually educated on even a small subset of the issues at stake in an election. For example, you probably didn't know about your Representative's stance on the Patent Reform Act when you voted.

mister robouteo wrote:but how many people who eat this garbage up on the news are aware of this? Unfortunately, and again I go back to the "should be ashamed" rant, I would have hoped that the people making a stink about it would at least have been aware of it.

Huh? Are you saying that natural born citizenship is jus sanguinis.

mister robouteo wrote:Maybe the only reason they haven't gone after his mother proving her citizenship is that it would look bad to the patriotic family values dupes if they made a dig at a guy's mom.

I don't think his mother's citizenship was at any time an issue. I think it had something to do with her age at the time of his birth.

natural born citizen... C section babies aren't naturally born... does this mean C section babies can't be president?

Just a fun play on words

Oh no! Donald! Control your hair!

Still not satisfied.

Nowhere on that 'long form birth certificate' does it list which Hawaii, which Earth he was born in.

Until we know for certain that Obama was born here on Earth Prime and not on Earth 2 or Earth 616 or God Forbid the anti-matter Earth, Htrea, we should not accept this.

Do we know for a fact that Hawaii is even a state on Htrea?


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Grakmar wrote:The Birther movement is idiotic for 2 reasons:

1) Obama was clearly born in Hawaii. Even before this, there was more than enough evidence to show that he was born in Hawaii. He had shown a certification of live birth in 2008, which is all that is needed to prove anything!

2) The entire Birther movement relies on the phrase "Natural Born Citizen". They interpret this to mean "born on US soil". But, that definition is only 1 of the 2 ways a child can be born as a US citizen. The other way is for your parent to be a US citizen! So, even if Obama was born in Kenya, his mother was still a US citizen, so he was a still a natural born citizen.


Now, I hope this will be the end of the birther movement. But, I think I'm giving too much credit to the logical part of people...

They've gone farther than that, born on US soil with 2 US citizen parents, a standard that does not exist anywhere in law and would mean my (hypothetical future) kids could not president.

Welp, seen several comments all around the web that its a fake.

Totally surprised.

halonachos wrote:Because even though we're a nation of immigrants we want to keep an American culture. If some guy from Mexico came over and lived here for 35 years and became the president of the United States without assimilating into the American culture I would have a hard time following him.

Being born in America also means that you're tied to America and helps prevent foreign influence in matters.

A surprising number of people are having trouble following Obama despite the fact he is a poster boy for immigration and assimilation into the American culture.

My brother's wife is pregnant, they live in Oregon, he is British, she is American. The baby will be born in the USA. He or she will be entitled to a UK passport, which will allow him to live anywhere in the EU without conditions.

My wife is Japanese and I have a resident visa for Japan. If my brother and his wife died shortly after the birth of their child, in a car accident perhaps, their nearest relative to adopt the baby would be me.

I could take the baby to Japan and raise it there monolingually in Japanese for 18 years, then send it to university in Bulgaria. The mature adult could start a tourism business aimed at Turks, and would be eligible to become President of the USA at the age of 35. Or s/he might take Japanese citizenship and become Prime Minister, or become Prime Minister of the UK.

Alternatively, my wife and I could die suddenly, and our half-Japanese, half-British daughter could be adopted by my brother in Oregon, go to the local school, grow up saying "eeew" and "omg". After 24 years she would not be eligible to be President.

Kilkrazy wrote:I could take the baby to Japan and raise it there monolingually in Japanese for 18 years, then send it to university in Bulgaria. The mature adult could start a tourism business aimed at Turks, and would be eligible to become President of the USA at the age of 35.

No, she wouldn't.

halonachos wrote:Because even though we're a nation of immigrants we want to keep an American culture. If some guy from Mexico came over and lived here for 35 years and became the president of the United States without assimilating into the American culture I would have a hard time following him.

Being born in America also means that you're tied to America and helps prevent foreign influence in matters.

I've lived here for 29 years and there are some facets of "Merican Culture" I would LOVE to change, and could totally get behind someone wanting to change things!

This is also a ridiculously broad, sweeping statement of your opinion, and contrary to what you might think, we do not all share it.

Being born here doesn't make you more 'Merican than anyone else that has been stuck here for too long.

biccat wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:I could take the baby to Japan and raise it there monolingually in Japanese for 18 years, then send it to university in Bulgaria. The mature adult could start a tourism business aimed at Turks, and would be eligible to become President of the USA at the age of 35.

No, she wouldn't.

...unless she moved here at some point and resided here for at least 14 years. Which could be anytime after having grown up in a totally different culture with a totally different language.

Kilkrazy's point is well made.