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Still, its the Inquisition and they can afford all the expensive shielding required for that to work.

Space Marines probably wouldn't have access to that.

The expensiveness of the wallpaper isn't the issue. Pariahs are extremly rare and only The Inquisition has the resources to harvest them in great numbers.

purplefood wrote:
OT: It is possible since the gene-seed mutates slowly however getting the right combination of genes without outside interference would be next to impossible and making a chapter such as this in the fluff wuold reek of mary sue.

Yeah, that makes sense that this kind of mutation would only happening some outside interference, and I agree that is would be a little mary sue. The vague idea I had for a custom Chapter was to make them from the 21st founding with them becoming nulls or pariahs, but suffering some kind of serious side effects I hadn't worked out yet. I'll think about it some more, but I'm probably just going to go back to drawing board and come up with a new idea. Maybe a half-Ork/half-Eldar Space Marine Chapter?

I think thinks it interesting that no ones tried to create nulls/pariah (aside from the Necron) in the fluff. Such a Chapter would be extremely useful to the Inquisition, but I guess the Exorcists already fill that roll, they just have a different way of getting the desired effect.

BluntmanDC wrote:
Their is a difference between what can be considered 'natural' mutations, like constantly growing canines or boney crests and what can be considered 'unnatural' like bursting into fire but still being fine or completely losing a person's soul.

Ok, I understand what you where saying, thanks for the clarification.

And thank you to everyone whose responded, I've definitely expanded my knowledge of the 40k universe a little bit.

A little Mary Sue?
Not at all.
This is Matt Ward proportions of Mary Sue.
An entire chapter of Blanks, Null and or parriahs would wreck practically any race they fought against.
Tyranids, Chaos, Daemons, Orks would probably be affected, Eldar without a doubt.
Only Dark Eldar, Necrons and Tau would escape the effects...
The key to making a good DIY chapter is give them a unique aspect of any kind but don't make it to strong and then balance it with a medium to large drawback. Gene-seed mutation or slow recruitment is a favorite but it can be almost anything.
The point is thier unique aspect can't be something mahoosively over the top such as an entire chapter of blanks.

It is surprising that it hasn't been tried. Perhaps the pariah genes and the primarch genes are incompatible. Since we have never seen one incident of a pariah Astartes blanks that are given geneseed probably inexplicably have a 100% fatality rate.

purplefood wrote:
A little Mary Sue?
Not at all.
This is Matt Ward proportions of Mary Sue.

You think it's that good of an idea? Wow, maybe I'll submitt it to Matt Ward himself, so he can add it in the next codex he writes

The key to making a good DIY chapter is give them a unique aspect of any kind but don't make it to strong and then balance it with a medium to large drawback. Gene-seed mutation or slow recruitment is a favorite but it can be almost anything.
The point is thier unique aspect can't be something mahoosively over the top such as an entire chapter of blanks.

Agreed. I'm just doing research and tinkering with ideas, when this one popped into my head.

It can be anything...
Gene-seed mutation is overused IMO
Make it something suitably grim dark like:
They care nothing for civilian casualties and have killed thousands with their callous tactics
The chapter has been hounded by the Inquisition after crossing them during a campiagn and has suffered greatly for it, to the point that the chapter is on the edge of extinction
The chapter has been recently welcomed back into the imperial Fold after going renegade and has been tasked with a penance crusade and refused reinforcements or recruits.
It doesn't even have to be that momentus...
They could simply favour a style of combat and have recently begun a alrge crusade... they could have done nothing of note beforehand.

I do tend to makes things overly complicated. Thank you for the advice, I'll keep it in mind

BluntmanDC wrote:

warhawkstriker wrote:I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the exorcists chapter, who are all psychic blanks. Part of their induction is that they are possessed by a daemon, and then have it removed, resulting in a fabricated psychic blank. However i'd believe that space marine genetic screenings or the implanted pariah genes would weed out any potential space marine as they would likely cause a mutation during induction.

The Exorcists have never in fluff been refered to as blanks, Exorcist fluff ''that their souls are incorruptible and pure'', a blank or pariah has no soul, that is the whole point. An Exorcist is not a blank they have just developed a stronger defence on their soul.

Bluntman, as purple food already corrected above, they are not Psychic blanks, but he is right about the demonic possession. It is this process that makes them virtually impossible to possess again.

It's unlikely that many Untouchables actually survive on the feral and death worlds in which Space Marines tend to recruit.

there is that issue,

but the same can be often said of Psykers. many of these planets will kill supposed Witches on discovery.

NagothDaCleaver wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:

warhawkstriker wrote:I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the exorcists chapter, who are all psychic blanks. Part of their induction is that they are possessed by a daemon, and then have it removed, resulting in a fabricated psychic blank. However i'd believe that space marine genetic screenings or the implanted pariah genes would weed out any potential space marine as they would likely cause a mutation during induction.

The Exorcists have never in fluff been refered to as blanks, Exorcist fluff ''that their souls are incorruptible and pure'', a blank or pariah has no soul, that is the whole point. An Exorcist is not a blank they have just developed a stronger defence on their soul.

Bluntman, as purple food already corrected above, they are not Psychic blanks, but he is right about the demonic possession. It is this process that makes them virtually impossible to possess again.

I very sorry to have to ask, but what part of my post said that it didn't involve daemonic possession? I was stating the fact that as the fluff clearly states, the Exorcist are not blank/pariah as the very process needed to induct them requires them not to be, as blanks and pariah are already protected from deamons.

I was pointing out the fact that his post was not linked to the actual discussion but an aside to a slightly related topic.

I can't follow everything being said so I'm just going to say my two cents:

A blank marine would probably be noticed during pre-screenings where they actually search for psychically active aspirants. The fact that none have ever really existed leads me to believe that any that have been detected are probably given over to the Inquisition. Having a blank marine would mess with any Librarians in the force, as well as ruin the sense of brotherhood because they dont like him due to his lack of soul.

As for the Exorcists, they are possessed by a minor daemon and then they expel it from their bodies. This gives them the knowledge of Chaos daemons have, making them Illuminati. However, they aren't null, they just know how daemons work and are able to resist them easier. I believe I read that they have a reduced warp presence as well afterward, but I am unsure of the veracity. They are basically Grey Knights x.5.

I will add though, In the short stoty in Victories of the SM, the librarian says he can't feel the Exorcist's soul, so it is kind of misleading.

I there is no reason Untouchable/Blank/Pariah Space Marines would be impossible.

A mutation in there geneseed? No because the Pariah Gene is a human condition found at birth and only found there, why would it randomly show up in geneseed?

BUT What if a radical inquisitor found the need to fight the power of the warp on a massive scale and over a long time but could waste the resources of the Grey Knights or Exorcists?

BEHOLD! the creation of the Dark Scions! the chapter was sanctioned to be created to watch over a very unstable part of space. The inquisitor spent many year rounding up 100 possible SM initiates that had the pariah gene and made them part of the chapters elite while the rest of the chapter was created using normal humans. So you have 100 untouchable SM possibly there own company or scattered throughout the chapter, all experts in combating psykers and daemons. Still working out the details but I plan on using the grey knights codex.

Now someone tell me how this could never happen in the 40k universe and how it sounds too Mary Sue... sounds pretty origional and perfectly fluffy to me.

Just some ideas you can mull over.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Main point being... if the =I= made a whole chapter of SM that are daemonically possessed then cleansed then trusted to serve the imperium... untouchable SM is not much of a stretch.

It's ok unless we hear differently from GW about any incompatibility between Geneseed and Pariah gene. Like I said it would have to be created by the Inquisition, only they have the wherewithal to get it done.

Laughing God wrote:I there is no reason Untouchable/Blank/Pariah Space Marines would be impossible.

A mutation in there geneseed? No because the Pariah Gene is a human condition found at birth and only found there, why would it randomly show up in geneseed?

BUT What if a radical inquisitor found the need to fight the power of the warp on a massive scale and over a long time but could waste the resources of the Grey Knights or Exorcists?

BEHOLD! the creation of the Dark Scions! the chapter was sanctioned to be created to watch over a very unstable part of space. The inquisitor spent many year rounding up 100 possible SM initiates that had the pariah gene and made them part of the chapters elite while the rest of the chapter was created using normal humans. So you have 100 untouchable SM possibly there own company or scattered throughout the chapter, all experts in combating psykers and daemons. Still working out the details but I plan on using the grey knights codex.

Now someone tell me how this could never happen in the 40k universe and how it sounds too Mary Sue... sounds pretty origional and perfectly fluffy to me.

Just some ideas you can mull over.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Main point being... if the =I= made a whole chapter of SM that are daemonically possessed then cleansed then trusted to serve the imperium... untouchable SM is not much of a stretch.

Two things. if you really want to make this chapter you can't use any psychic powers. Mainly because everyone and their grandmother is a null. Also, while it isn't completely blown out of possible existence, the fact remains that any potential aspirants with the pariah gene would be detected by the Chief Librarian when they inspect them for possible librarians. The inquisition takes all nulls for their use in Inquisitorial work as well as black ships etc. Also, I don't believe they want them. In Flight of the Eisenstein, when they needed nulls they called in the Sisters of Silence. If they had access to null marines they would have used them I would think.

Any random null that applied to a chapter would be screened out and sent to Culexus school

Brotherjulian wrote: Any random null that applied to a chapter would be screened out and sent to Culexus school

The space marine chapters have no responsability to do that, they do not pay tithes, their only responsability is fighting the enemies of man. If a black ship approachs a space marine held world it would have to ask permission to enter their space and ask further permission to screen the populace. Chapters that have strong links with the inquisition may hand them over though. Also they would be sent to Terra for processing, only a small perecentage of nulls/pariahs would actually go to the Culexus Temple, as their are many other jobs for them and not all are suited to becoming assassins.

As most chapters recruit from worlds that have locals in a pre-black powder state they will know nothing about space travel, aliens or other humans, it would most likely be denied (a large proportion of recruiting worlds only see space marines a few times in a generation and are believed to be angels/gods that fight deamons in a war in the heavens). but as said before, recruiting worlds are picked because they have a hardened population so anyone that induces a feeling of utter revulsion in other locals will probably be hunted down and killed.

Space marines do pay a tithe. They have to pay 5% of their gene seed.

Sorry by tithe i ment in the standard IoM planetary scheme, as denoted by tithe grades, most Chapter worlds are adaptus non, the gene seed tithe is a special one.

A Space Marine world is still an Imperial World, and may still be required to tithe its psykers, though specific conditions and arrangements may be made with the individual Chapters. I don't believe the Black Ships "ask" anyone, for anything. These are, after all, Inquisitorial vessels, and the Inquisition does not answer to the Astartes.

Psienesis wrote:A Space Marine world is still an Imperial World, and may still be required to tithe its psykers, though specific conditions and arrangements may be made with the individual Chapters. I don't believe the Black Ships "ask" anyone, for anything. These are, after all, Inquisitorial vessels, and the Inquisition does not answer to the Astartes.

1. This completely contracts all the fluff GW has literally ever released. They do not have to tithe, all the planets production (if any) is devoted to the Chapter, any extra such as how the Ultramarines have it are an honourary gift.

2. Most planets that chapters recruit from are harsh worlds with small populations, most psykers do not survive and if they had to hand over the psykers that did survive, a chapter would have no librarians.

3. and your argument falls apart because Pariahs are not PSYKERS, thats the whole point of them.

The Grey Knights would be the most likely to produce such a mutation. The Emperor and his offspring (The Sensei) all have a negative presence in the warp, so if you're going on the fluff that they used genes from the God-Emperor himself, it possible that it could make such a mutation. I know I'm reviving a dead post, but seemed like it should be mentioned.

Archon Baretz Sonok wrote:The Grey Knights would be the most likely to produce such a mutation. The Emperor and his offspring (The Sensei) all have a negative presence in the warp, so if you're going on the fluff that they used genes from the God-Emperor himself, it possible that it could make such a mutation. I know I'm reviving a dead post, but seemed like it should be mentioned.

It's only implied they use gene-seed fromt the Emperor.
Also, all GK without exception are psychic.
Also please don't Necro threads.

The Emperor is quite the opposite of a blank..

Soladrin wrote:The Emperor is quite the opposite of a blank..

Old Realm of Chaos fluff suggested that the intrusion of the Emperor into the warp was as obtrusive to its denizens as the Eye of Terror is to the material plane; I presume it's of that he's thinking.

As for blank Astartes, it would not be utterly implausible for a blank, or an individual rated sigma or less (naturally psychic-resistant) on the assignment scale, to be born at the right time on a chapter's recruiting world and grow up sufficiently strong, tough and determined to be selected as a neophyte. It's possible that the librarians might spot him and hand him over to the inquisition, but likewise it's possible the chapter might judge him on his merits for having passed selection, and keep his remarkable capabilities for themselves. The Warhammer 40,000 universe is a large enough place for the odd exception to have occurred, after all.

Well, the Emperor is certaintly an oddity. He isn't a blank, but he is certaintly Psychic.


the strangeness that the Emperor exudes in the warp is that his presense is the equal of a warp diety, but he originated from the material plane. whereas the Chaos Gods were born in, and are of, the Warp.

He is the Anathema, there is none that are like him.

What about a company of psychic blanks in a chapter?

orz192 wrote:What about a company of psychic blanks in a chapter?

The chances that a Battle Company's worth of Blanks would all be born on the same planet, at the same time, is astronomically small.

I wouldn't put it past a chapter that is fleet based to be able to amass a fair number of blanks as members, as fleet based chapters tend to recruit from multiple planets and sometimes never the same one twice.

You might have enough to create a special Anti-psyker squad that they assemble if a psychic enemy must be destroyed. They would certaintly need to stay away from the chapter Librarians and avoid the Navigator chambers when aboard ship.