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http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Unforgiven

I actually meant which are the chapters that claim the Rock as their home base?

EDIT:Ha! Speciality:Hunting the Fallen

Oh, I'm not sure if that's actually true.

Figures...

Anyways, I don't think the Black Templars could really bring their full force to bear anywhere at one time anyway. They are more like a movement than an Army. In a way, Space Wolves are still the largest.

Yeah BT are so ridiculously spread out they are only a chapter due to technicality...
SW are probably the largest in terms of numbers and concentration...

I thought Spacewolves still operated as they did at the time of the great crusade as they did not accept the Codex Astarte. Would this not mean they are still at legion capacity?

They were never a large legion...
Including the losses incurred at the Burning of Prospero they would have probably numbered around 5000 give ot take.
Counting further losses from their only other founding (Wolf Brothers) and more losses from the tail end of the Heresy. I would guess they would number around 3500 maybe a touch less.

I think there's about 2400 of them.

There would be about that after the fighting, renegades and lost companies.

Its space wolfs they have the most.

samtheking wrote:Its space wolfs they have the most.

Lex Luthor wrote:Wrong

DarknessEternal wrote:Two DA successors even use The Rock as their home base.

Can you please provide a fluff source for this, or is it just wishful thinking?

The question was which was the largest chapter, and not necessarily which was the largest chapter fleet/attack force. Spread out or not, Black Templar have by far the most.

Caminoman wrote:The question was which was the largest chapter, and not necessarily which was the largest chapter fleet/attack force. Spread out or not, Black Templar have by far the most.

No one said that.
What they said was, BT have the biggest chapter BUT as an attacking force they are spread thinly.

The arguement could be made that the BTs aren't even a chapter. They're a movement.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The arguement could be made that the BTs aren't even a chapter. They're a movement.

That same argument could be applied to all of the Unforgiven...

purplefood wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The arguement could be made that the BTs aren't even a chapter. They're a movement.

That same argument could be applied to all of the Unforgiven...

Oh, they're a chapter alright. Unlike the BTs they have a strong central command...perhaps a little too strong.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

purplefood wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The arguement could be made that the BTs aren't even a chapter. They're a movement.

That same argument could be applied to all of the Unforgiven...

Oh, they're a chapter alright. Unlike the BTs they have a strong central command...perhaps a little too strong.

Well they seem to have that.
Though they also seem to have a large degree of autonomy... similar to the Unforgiven...

SW are WAAAAY bigger than BT. They are still legion strength.

They have 13 great companies, each the size of a chapter.

That's about 2x the BT with their 6000 marines.

im2randomghgh wrote:SW are WAAAAY bigger than BT. They are still legion strength.

They have 13 great companies, each the size of a chapter.

That's about 2x the BT with their 6000 marines.

Nope. I'd say they are at 4000 max.
And they only have 12 Great companies.
The 13th is in the EoT.
Even when they were a legion they were never a large one.

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:SW are WAAAAY bigger than BT. They are still legion strength.

They have 13 great companies, each the size of a chapter.

That's about 2x the BT with their 6000 marines.

Nope. I'd say they are at 4000 max.
And they only have 12 Great companies.
The 13th is in the EoT.
Even when they were a legion they were never a large one.

Warhammer40k wiki wrote:Instead of dividing into Successor Chapters as per the requirements of the Codex Astartes, the Space Wolves Legion continued to split itself into 12 Great Companies (a Great Company being closer in size to an entire normal Space Marine Chapter than the company of 100 Astartes that normally comprises a Chapter's constituent units)

FTW!

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:SW are WAAAAY bigger than BT. They are still legion strength.

They have 13 great companies, each the size of a chapter.

That's about 2x the BT with their 6000 marines.

Nope. I'd say they are at 4000 max.
And they only have 12 Great companies.
The 13th is in the EoT.
Even when they were a legion they were never a large one.

Warhammer40k wiki wrote:Instead of dividing into Successor Chapters as per the requirements of the Codex Astartes, the Space Wolves Legion continued to split itself into 12 Great Companies (a Great Company being closer in size to an entire normal Space Marine Chapter than the company of 100 Astartes that normally comprises a Chapter's constituent units)

FTW!

Excpet we know the Legion divided once into 2 chapters.
We also know they were one of the smaller chapters.
They had also been in some heavy fighting due to the fact they were one of the few chapters left relatively intact and having annhialated the Thousand Sons.
This would have depleted their numbers even more so.

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:SW are WAAAAY bigger than BT. They are still legion strength.

They have 13 great companies, each the size of a chapter.

That's about 2x the BT with their 6000 marines.

Nope. I'd say they are at 4000 max.
And they only have 12 Great companies.
The 13th is in the EoT.
Even when they were a legion they were never a large one.

Warhammer40k wiki wrote:Instead of dividing into Successor Chapters as per the requirements of the Codex Astartes, the Space Wolves Legion continued to split itself into 12 Great Companies (a Great Company being closer in size to an entire normal Space Marine Chapter than the company of 100 Astartes that normally comprises a Chapter's constituent units)

FTW!

Excpet we know the Legion divided once into 2 chapters.
We also know they were one of the smaller chapters.
They had also been in some heavy fighting due to the fact they were one of the few chapters left relatively intact and having annhialated the Thousand Sons.
This would have depleted their numbers even more so.

Except that it says they did this in spite of the codex astartes, which was written AFTER the battle for prospero.

And also, 10,000 years is more than enough to recoup the losses. The BT were after all 1,000 marines at one point.

I want to know the source of that, it seems suspect and possibly exaggerated.
I did find this which would explain it easily, however.

40k wiki wrote:The Space Wolves Legion spearheaded the Great Scouring, continuing to wage war on the Traitors for another seven years before the last rebel formation were destroyed or exiled.

40k wiki wrote:Never a very large Legion, the Space Wolves were divided only once

Take into account the relative instability of their gene-seed which would slow any recruitment process.

purplefood wrote:I want to know the source of that, it seems suspect and possibly exaggerated.
I did find this which would explain it easily, however.

40k wiki wrote:The Space Wolves Legion spearheaded the Great Scouring, continuing to wage war on the Traitors for another seven years before the last rebel formation were destroyed or exiled.

40k wiki wrote:Never a very large Legion, the Space Wolves were divided only once

Take into account the relative instability of their gene-seed which would slow any recruitment process.

That's not why they're small.

It is because of their trials. Because of this, they are one of the most elite space marine chapters in the IoM.

With probably only GK, Deathwatch, and (due to indestructible plot armour) the frickin' Ultrasmurfs being superior.

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:I want to know the source of that, it seems suspect and possibly exaggerated.
I did find this which would explain it easily, however.

40k wiki wrote:The Space Wolves Legion spearheaded the Great Scouring, continuing to wage war on the Traitors for another seven years before the last rebel formation were destroyed or exiled.

40k wiki wrote:Never a very large Legion, the Space Wolves were divided only once

Take into account the relative instability of their gene-seed which would slow any recruitment process.

That's not why they're small.

It is because of their trials. Because of this, they are one of the most elite space marine chapters in the IoM.

With probably only GK, Deathwatch, and (due to indestructible plot armour) the frickin' Ultrasmurfs being superior.

It's not the only reason...
They are big because they recruit as much as possible however they do lose a lot of those recruits in the process of training and enhancing.
Each SW however is probably more lethal in his pack than a standard astartes squad.

Space Wolves can only recruit from world, while the Black Templars can recruit from nearly any world they find during their crusades.

This is the main limiting factor on the size of the Space wolves.

BluntmanDC wrote:Space Wolves can only recruit from world, while the Black Templars can recruit from nearly any world they find during their crusades.

This is the main limiting factor on the size of the Space wolves.

Yeah their legion can only be the size of a planetary population.

im2randomghgh wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:Space Wolves can only recruit from world, while the Black Templars can recruit from nearly any world they find during their crusades.

This is the main limiting factor on the size of the Space wolves.

Yeah their legion can only be the size of a planetary population.

Well no...
Fenris doesn't have a large population, the number of genetically acceptable candidates would also be smaller.