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unbeliever87 wrote:The reason why the Fireknife and Deathain compositions are so popular is because they allow your suits to operate 40" away from your opponent, leaving your suits well out of assault range but still able to contribute.
The Helios might be better against MEQ on paper, but they have to be within 18" to work which is exactly where Tau don't want their expensive, fragile suits to be.

I would go for a combination of Fireknife and Deathrain if you want a more balanced force.

The Fireknife is also the most well rounded. Long range firepower, good strength, yet some low ap stuff when you need it. It isn't the most focused, but it is the most versitile.

No you see I meant that loading up the deathrain and fire knife is a bad idea, especially against horde armies. A Fire Knife config is only going to get 3 shots. A deathrain 2. But PR BC MT is going to get 5 shots, with three suits thats 15 shots vs 9 or 6 for those other configs. Im not saying equip your whole army with them, I am just pointing out how regardless of the fact the BC is strength 5 your still making the enemy take more saves than with the other two and if played right should still be out of assault range against most enemy units. If all you have is the mp than you just going to be flying around the outside of the map killing one or two guys as the wave of enemies come flying at you. Plus you shouldnt need that many MP shots going at enemy transports, you should also have your heavy slot to take care of that. The burst cannon may seem bad on paper but it would certainly not be a waste to equip some crisis suits with

darkcloud92 wrote:No you see I meant that loading up the deathrain and fire knife is a bad idea, especially against horde armies. A Fire Knife config is only going to get 3 shots. A deathrain 2. But PR BC MT is going to get 5 shots, with three suits thats 15 shots vs 9 or 6 for those other configs. Im not saying equip your whole army with them, I am just pointing out how regardless of the fact the BC is strength 5 your still making the enemy take more saves than with the other two and if played right should still be out of assault range against most enemy units. If all you have is the mp than you just going to be flying around the outside of the map killing one or two guys as the wave of enemies come flying at you. Plus you shouldnt need that many MP shots going at enemy transports, you should also have your heavy slot to take care of that. The burst cannon may seem bad on paper but it would certainly not be a waste to equip some crisis suits with

Have you played against a rhino or chimera horde lately? HS is far to swamped to do the job by itself, killing at most 3 vehicels a turn (and assuming that you even manage that, due to smoke and cover) isn't going to stop a full blown mech list. Even with piranha support its hard to stop them. An AV 11-12 spam list is more common than a full blown foot swarm (which is ineffective and generally awful these days). Giving up anti transport fire power for crappy as hell S5 shots you get everywhere else in the army is not a good thing in an all comers build. You want to put a bunch of wounds on a low value per model unit that horde armies bring? Don't use crisis suits, they aren't build for that, at the points you are paying 5 shots isn't much better than 3 higher quality shots. Use your other assests for horde duty, like kroot, FW, devilfish, and hammer head sub munition.

I generally stick with Deathrains (TL missile), with either a Fireknife (Plas/Missile) or Helios (Melta/Plas) HQ. I will occasionally run Fireknives as elites on the rare occasions I take Pathfinders.

Based on my experience from the past several years, the Bladestorm (Plas/Burst) config doesn't mesh with what makes Tau actually win games. To win, top priority for the Tau is to eliminate the opponents mobility at a range that doesn't threaten the workhorses of the army (suits). Bladestorms don't help at all with that, so I don't take them.

Bladestorms are effective at killing infantry, even though their range is a bit short, the numbers are clear on that point. Problem is, that usually isn't the primary job of my suits, so they aren't effective in my armies. If there is a unit in my army that isn't A) capable of popping transports or B) buffering my army by slowing enemy units/tanks, then that unit is second tier and would be the least useful unit in my army. Bladestorms don't fulfill A or B, so they are not useful IMO. As suits they're not useless, but they also are not tasked to the correct job.

As for matchups, hordes aren't something I've worried about in a very long time, proper tactics (buffering/roadblocks) and generally available firepower has been enough to handle them. Nids are reliant on their MCs, which we're well equipped to deal with. Orks hordes aren't very frequent (at least around here), due mainly to the number of armys that school the green tide (Sisters, DE, BA, Vulkan, GK), and because of the fact that moving 200 models a turn is a pain for the controlling player. Battlewagon/Kan/truck Orks generally fare better, and thats what I've been seeing much more of for the past year or two.

BeefCakeSoup wrote:

Yeah for one round of glorious shooting.. Two if your enemy plays his movements poorly.

You only need one turn of shooting to elimate a 5 man squad if you do it right. Backups, plus marklights equal one dead terminator squad.

Bladestorm is a waste. If I'm going to bring 3 suits of blade storm I'll bring 5 man stealth suits. Same points, same BS skill, but bring more advantages.

As a Tau player you NEVER want to be in range to use a fusion blaster with your crisis suits, unless you want them to be assaulted and then wiped off the playing board.

Mathhammer doesn't take into account that you never ever want to close to your opponent as a tau player, especially with your best unit... Crisis Suits.

There's a reason Fireknifes are the most popular build, they cater to the Tau's strengths... and weaknesses.

BTW NEVER use Fireknife without a multitracker... totally defeats the purpose of having that build out.

Fusion Blasters really should only be used with Piranha. For Anti- Mech you have one of the best guns in the game.... The Railgun... use it.

ajefferism wrote:As a Tau player you NEVER want to be in range to use a fusion blaster with your crisis suits, unless you want them to be assaulted and then wiped off the playing board.

Or......you bring enough firepower to wipe the unit off the table. Then you wont be assualted....

carmachu wrote:

ajefferism wrote:As a Tau player you NEVER want to be in range to use a fusion blaster with your crisis suits, unless you want them to be assaulted and then wiped off the playing board.

Or......you bring enough firepower to wipe the unit off the table. Then you wont be assualted....

Hmmm so youre gonna kill everything with one shot fusion blasters??? even if your shooting at transports... what happens with the guys inside? id like to hear some battlereports instead of all this theory hammer...

carmachu wrote:

ajefferism wrote:As a Tau player you NEVER want to be in range to use a fusion blaster with your crisis suits, unless you want them to be assaulted and then wiped off the playing board.

Or......you bring enough firepower to wipe the unit off the table. Then you wont be assualted....

I run between 17-20 suits a game with butt tons of Shas'Vre. Even with that many suits I learned fast you never risk a suit to an assualt. While wiping a 5 man out with focus fire might be effective, it loses its awesome factor when your enemy brings 30 terminators or transport spam.

You go with Helios builds and he will simply FF you down with lascannons or his equivilant. As Tau, I'd prefer my game to be at 48 inches with 24 being an extra threat to him if he decides he wants to go for an assualt.

I generally prefer the Blinding spear (Bladestorm [PR BC MT]) myself, as VoF is a good way to NOT get charged, and it's good against Meqs, Teqs, AND Geqs.

Generally, for 1500pt games, I run nine suits.

3x deathrain (TLMP, Flamer)

3x Blinding Spear

and three specialized anti-horde suits as my HQ, but the loadout are all different and specialized so I won't list. But it has thirteen regular shots per turn + a template + a large pie plate.

BeefCakeSoup wrote: I run between 17-20 suits a game with butt tons of Shas'Vre. Even with that many suits I learned fast you never risk a suit to an assualt. While wiping a 5 man out with focus fire might be effective, it loses its awesome factor when your enemy brings 30 terminators or transport spam.

You go with Helios builds and he will simply FF you down with lascannons or his equivilant. As Tau, I'd prefer my game to be at 48 inches with 24 being an extra threat to him if he decides he wants to go for an assualt.

Um, while I agree with your point for the most part, isn't 15 the max number of crisis suites you can take? Are you including broadsides with this?

notabot187 wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote: I run between 17-20 suits a game with butt tons of Shas'Vre. Even with that many suits I learned fast you never risk a suit to an assualt. While wiping a 5 man out with focus fire might be effective, it loses its awesome factor when your enemy brings 30 terminators or transport spam.

You go with Helios builds and he will simply FF you down with lascannons or his equivilant. As Tau, I'd prefer my game to be at 48 inches with 24 being an extra threat to him if he decides he wants to go for an assualt.

Um, while I agree with your point for the most part, isn't 15 the max number of crisis suites you can take? Are you including broadsides with this?

With Farsight, the max for XV8's is 19, if my math is correct.

Nope, 20, remembered the Shas'O bodyguard, but not him.

notabot187 wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote: I run between 17-20 suits a game with butt tons of Shas'Vre. Even with that many suits I learned fast you never risk a suit to an assualt. While wiping a 5 man out with focus fire might be effective, it loses its awesome factor when your enemy brings 30 terminators or transport spam.

You go with Helios builds and he will simply FF you down with lascannons or his equivilant. As Tau, I'd prefer my game to be at 48 inches with 24 being an extra threat to him if he decides he wants to go for an assualt.

Um, while I agree with your point for the most part, isn't 15 the max number of crisis suites you can take? Are you including broadsides with this?

It's actually 20. You forgot to include Farsight.

If you are going for a max suit list, the most you can get is:

Farsight+7 bodyguards.
Shas'El (O)+2 body guards.

6 stealth suits
6 stealth suits
6 stealth suits

3 XV9
3 XV9
3 XV9

3 XV88
3 XV88
3 XV88

43 suits in a standard game FoC.

im2randomghgh wrote:

notabot187 wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote: I run between 17-20 suits a game with butt tons of Shas'Vre. Even with that many suits I learned fast you never risk a suit to an assualt. While wiping a 5 man out with focus fire might be effective, it loses its awesome factor when your enemy brings 30 terminators or transport spam.

You go with Helios builds and he will simply FF you down with lascannons or his equivilant. As Tau, I'd prefer my game to be at 48 inches with 24 being an extra threat to him if he decides he wants to go for an assualt.

Um, while I agree with your point for the most part, isn't 15 the max number of crisis suites you can take? Are you including broadsides with this?

It's actually 20. You forgot to include Farsight.

If you are going for a max suit list, the most you can get is:

Farsight+7 bodyguards.
Shas'El (O)+2 body guards.

6 stealth suits
6 stealth suits
6 stealth suits

3 XV9
3 XV9
3 XV9

3 XV88
3 XV88
3 XV88

43 suits in a standard game FoC.

That's... what, a 4000 point list?

1065 for the Elite slot+ FA slot+ HS slot.

The HQ is a variable due to having no default weapons on the suits.

ajefferism wrote:

carmachu wrote:

ajefferism wrote:As a Tau player you NEVER want to be in range to use a fusion blaster with your crisis suits, unless you want them to be assaulted and then wiped off the playing board.

Or......you bring enough firepower to wipe the unit off the table. Then you wont be assualted....

Hmmm so youre gonna kill everything with one shot fusion blasters??? even if your shooting at transports... what happens with the guys inside? id like to hear some battlereports instead of all this theory hammer...

Inevitably, enemy gets something nasty within 12" of your suits. Fusion Blasters exist for those occasions...sure, if you go Rhino hunting with your melta suits, that's probably not the best idea.

One suit configuration I've used from time to time is Missile-TL FB. It can either shoot transports with Missile pod, or melt stuff which gets or drops too close.

Backfire wrote:

ajefferism wrote:

carmachu wrote:

ajefferism wrote:As a Tau player you NEVER want to be in range to use a fusion blaster with your crisis suits, unless you want them to be assaulted and then wiped off the playing board.

Or......you bring enough firepower to wipe the unit off the table. Then you wont be assualted....

Hmmm so youre gonna kill everything with one shot fusion blasters??? even if your shooting at transports... what happens with the guys inside? id like to hear some battlereports instead of all this theory hammer...

Inevitably, enemy gets something nasty within 12" of your suits. Fusion Blasters exist for those occasions...sure, if you go Rhino hunting with your melta suits, that's probably not the best idea.

One suit configuration I've used from time to time is Missile-TL FB. It can either shoot transports with Missile pod, or melt stuff which gets or drops too close.

If you want to hunt rhinos, Shadowsun.

I don't always deep-strike tank-hunt, but when I do, O'Shaserra.

+1 for anyone who thought of "The Most Interesting Man in the World" from the Dos Equis Commercials.

Hmmm...I have always thought that deep striking with Shadowsun is just way too risky. You will trade 175p commander for 70p worth of Rhinos (at best). Plus it seems like kind of a waste of her leadership bubble...

Surely helios is the top dog? AP 1 and 2 weapons.

Backfire wrote:Hmmm...I have always thought that deep striking with Shadowsun is just way too risky. You will trade 175p commander for 70p worth of Rhinos (at best). Plus it seems like kind of a waste of her leadership bubble...

Nope

She can pop two rhinos a turn, and as long as they are with range, usually will kill both.

After she pops the transports mop up the marines with your Blinding Spears.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Backfire wrote:Hmmm...I have always thought that deep striking with Shadowsun is just way too risky. You will trade 175p commander for 70p worth of Rhinos (at best). Plus it seems like kind of a waste of her leadership bubble...

Nope

She can pop two rhinos a turn, and as long as they are with range, usually will kill both.

After she pops the transports mop up the marines with your Blinding Spears.

Now I do agree she CAN kill two vehicles a turn is possible, but math hammer says it isn't all that likely. Two shots, hitting on 2s, pretty close to auto pen, but you still have to roll 4+ on the pen roll to actually destroy a rhino. The chances of getting both is less than 25 percent. The chances of getting none, is more than 25 percent.

The "blinding spears" mopping up 2 units of marines that are A: in a crater, or B: hiding behind wreck as best as possible is also unlikely, even if you have 12 other suits firing 5 shots each at them. The AP on the burst cannon will be bounces mostly by the 3+ armor, and the plasma will be bounced by the cover the crater or wreck provides.
Use marker lights? Oh, well you get some more with the plasma, but even then you won't hit with all of them, nor will all wound. And how many marker light shots are you using? It takes quite a few to supply the full suite package with enough marker lights.
Killing 20 marines in cover is not going to happen that easily, and if you do, the rest of the list will punish you for it. 900+ points firing at 410 points of marines is hardly a fair fight. What is the remaining 500 pts of difference doing? Now the tacticals after all this will be pretty well gutted after all that fire directed towards them, but their real purpose is to score, not kill. So you just took out the least threatening unit in the army, with the combined firepower of the heart of yours. Good Job.
Also, other than shadowsun, what else are you using to kill AV units? Your suites aren't helping, so that is pure broadsides? (rail heads tend to be "fail"heads if you rely on them too much) Ugh, I think it might be better to give up the burst cannon, and pay the 4 pts per model and get the gun with 1 less shot, but twice the range and +2 strength.

notabot187 wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Backfire wrote:Hmmm...I have always thought that deep striking with Shadowsun is just way too risky. You will trade 175p commander for 70p worth of Rhinos (at best). Plus it seems like kind of a waste of her leadership bubble...

Nope

She can pop two rhinos a turn, and as long as they are with range, usually will kill both.

After she pops the transports mop up the marines with your Blinding Spears.

Now I do agree she CAN kill two vehicles a turn is possible, but math hammer says it isn't all that likely. Two shots, hitting on 2s, pretty close to auto pen, but you still have to roll 4+ on the pen roll to actually destroy a rhino. The chances of getting both is less than 25 percent. The chances of getting none, is more than 25 percent.

The "blinding spears" mopping up 2 units of marines that are A: in a crater, or B: hiding behind wreck as best as possible is also unlikely, even if you have 12 other suits firing 5 shots each at them. The AP on the burst cannon will be bounces mostly by the 3+ armor, and the plasma will be bounced by the cover the crater or wreck provides.
Use marker lights? Oh, well you get some more with the plasma, but even then you won't hit with all of them, nor will all wound. And how many marker light shots are you using? It takes quite a few to supply the full suite package with enough marker lights.
Killing 20 marines in cover is not going to happen that easily, and if you do, the rest of the list will punish you for it. 900+ points firing at 410 points of marines is hardly a fair fight. What is the remaining 500 pts of difference doing? Now the tacticals after all this will be pretty well gutted after all that fire directed towards them, but their real purpose is to score, not kill. So you just took out the least threatening unit in the army, with the combined firepower of the heart of yours. Good Job.
Also, other than shadowsun, what else are you using to kill AV units? Your suites aren't helping, so that is pure broadsides? (rail heads tend to be "fail"heads if you rely on them too much) Ugh, I think it might be better to give up the burst cannon, and pay the 4 pts per model and get the gun with 1 less shot, but twice the range and +2 strength.

WIth the Blinding Spears mopping up, I am not saying I'll use them to completely eradicate the marines, I am saying I'll put down a round of shooting so that Shadowsun doesn't get hit, then pull my O'Shaserra and the Crisis suits out to my gunline the next turn.

And the MP also fails to penetrate the marines armour.

And also, on that highly-detailed thread about battlesuit efficiency, Blinding Spear (Bladestorm) scored higher in just about everything than Fireknife, with fireknife being better almost uniquely because of it's ability to destroy transports.

You mean the highly detailed thread that (with the exception of a footnote) pretty much ignored range? You know, long range shooting, the most crucial aspect of Tau shooting? The only justification in that highly detailed post for ignoring range was that the OP believes, in his opinion "18 inches is safe enough", that is a massive assumption which in my opinion invalidates much of the hard 'proof' that was being sought after. Minimizing the effect of range by not posting effectiveness comparisons in the 24-36" range, which would be all zeros for Bladestorms, is a big deal.

The shorter range not only puts your Suits into the enemy threat range (even assualt ranges), it puts your skimmer walls and buffer layers even closer to the enemy, often within flamer and melta range (with movement).

I know its already been said a bajillion times, but Fireknives and Deathrains operate at an actual safe distance, and are firing the whole game. Bladestorms arent.


As for Shadowsun, shes just a bad idea. Way overpriced, with abilities and survivability to help a gunline... but armed with exactly the wrong weapons to help a gunline. Its the same reason why Stealth suits are bad, survivability against long range... but with short range weapons . Either you survive... or you do damage, not both .

And for Farsight, you actually get more suits if you stick with regular Commanders (20 vs 21, counting only Crisis and Broadsides).

notabot187 wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote: I run between 17-20 suits a game with butt tons of Shas'Vre. Even with that many suits I learned fast you never risk a suit to an assualt. While wiping a 5 man out with focus fire might be effective, it loses its awesome factor when your enemy brings 30 terminators or transport spam.

You go with Helios builds and he will simply FF you down with lascannons or his equivilant. As Tau, I'd prefer my game to be at 48 inches with 24 being an extra threat to him if he decides he wants to go for an assualt.

Um, while I agree with your point for the most part, isn't 15 the max number of crisis suites you can take? Are you including broadsides with this?

Farsight = 8 Suits (1st HQ)

3 Crisis Suits (2nd HQ)

Elites:
3 Crisis Suits
3 Crisis Suits
3 Crisis Suits

3 Broadside Suits


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Creeping Dementia wrote:You mean the highly detailed thread that (with the exception of a footnote) pretty much ignored range? You know, long range shooting, the most crucial aspect of Tau shooting? The only justification in that highly detailed post for ignoring range was that the OP believes, in his opinion "18 inches is safe enough", that is a massive assumption which in my opinion invalidates much of the hard 'proof' that was being sought after. Minimizing the effect of range by not posting effectiveness comparisons in the 24-36" range, which would be all zeros for Bladestorms, is a big deal.

The shorter range not only puts your Suits into the enemy threat range (even assualt ranges), it puts your skimmer walls and buffer layers even closer to the enemy, often within flamer and melta range (with movement).

I know its already been said a bajillion times, but Fireknives and Deathrains operate at an actual safe distance, and are firing the whole game. Bladestorms arent.


As for Shadowsun, shes just a bad idea. Way overpriced, with abilities and survivability to help a gunline... but armed with exactly the wrong weapons to help a gunline. Its the same reason why Stealth suits are bad, survivability against long range... but with short range weapons . Either you survive... or you do damage, not both .

And for Farsight, you actually get more suits if you stick with regular Commanders (20 vs 21, counting only Crisis and Broadsides).

Farsight is superior for suit spam because you get more Shas'Vre suits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

im2randomghgh wrote:

notabot187 wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote: I run between 17-20 suits a game with butt tons of Shas'Vre. Even with that many suits I learned fast you never risk a suit to an assualt. While wiping a 5 man out with focus fire might be effective, it loses its awesome factor when your enemy brings 30 terminators or transport spam.

You go with Helios builds and he will simply FF you down with lascannons or his equivilant. As Tau, I'd prefer my game to be at 48 inches with 24 being an extra threat to him if he decides he wants to go for an assualt.

Um, while I agree with your point for the most part, isn't 15 the max number of crisis suites you can take? Are you including broadsides with this?

It's actually 20. You forgot to include Farsight.

If you are going for a max suit list, the most you can get is:

Farsight+7 bodyguards.
Shas'El (O)+2 body guards.

6 stealth suits
6 stealth suits
6 stealth suits

3 XV9
3 XV9
3 XV9

3 XV88
3 XV88
3 XV88

43 suits in a standard game FoC.

Farsight Restricts XV88 squads to 0-1 along with Stealth suits squads... God I wish a I could make a 43 suit list...

Creeping Dementia wrote:You mean the highly detailed thread that (with the exception of a footnote) pretty much ignored range? You know, long range shooting, the most crucial aspect of Tau shooting? The only justification in that highly detailed post for ignoring range was that the OP believes, in his opinion "18 inches is safe enough", that is a massive assumption which in my opinion invalidates much of the hard 'proof' that was being sought after. Minimizing the effect of range by not posting effectiveness comparisons in the 24-36" range, which would be all zeros for Bladestorms, is a big deal.

The shorter range not only puts your Suits into the enemy threat range (even assualt ranges), it puts your skimmer walls and buffer layers even closer to the enemy, often within flamer and melta range (with movement).

I know its already been said a bajillion times, but Fireknives and Deathrains operate at an actual safe distance, and are firing the whole game. Bladestorms arent.

But how do you prevent your opponent from getting to 18" range? I find that 48" range is great for turn one and turn 6 if your suites are still alive. Those middle 4 turns tend to be played in 24" range or less. At that point, the broadsides / railhead pop the close transports, the pathfinders light them up with marker lights and then you advance into Helios range and wipe out the target squad.

But then again I like to run the triple weapon suites which don't seem to be that popular.

Either way, with 9 XV9s, you're going to show other players just how competitive Tau can be.

But yeah, 43 suits would be an unstoppable force.

A Manta can carry 50 something XV8s...just sayin'.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Endgame wrote:

Creeping Dementia wrote:You mean the highly detailed thread that (with the exception of a footnote) pretty much ignored range? You know, long range shooting, the most crucial aspect of Tau shooting? The only justification in that highly detailed post for ignoring range was that the OP believes, in his opinion "18 inches is safe enough", that is a massive assumption which in my opinion invalidates much of the hard 'proof' that was being sought after. Minimizing the effect of range by not posting effectiveness comparisons in the 24-36" range, which would be all zeros for Bladestorms, is a big deal.

The shorter range not only puts your Suits into the enemy threat range (even assualt ranges), it puts your skimmer walls and buffer layers even closer to the enemy, often within flamer and melta range (with movement).

I know its already been said a bajillion times, but Fireknives and Deathrains operate at an actual safe distance, and are firing the whole game. Bladestorms arent.

But how do you prevent your opponent from getting to 18" range? I find that 48" range is great for turn one and turn 6 if your suites are still alive. Those middle 4 turns tend to be played in 24" range or less. At that point, the broadsides / railhead pop the close transports, the pathfinders light them up with marker lights and then you advance into Helios range and wipe out the target squad.

But then again I like to run the triple weapon suites which don't seem to be that popular.

That's because they are ridiculously expensive and because of that it means less suits. You could simply get more suits and arm them to the teeth, with those spare points.

PLz God, let XV9s be in Tau 5th Edition Dexes

Endgame wrote:
But how do you prevent your opponent from getting to 18" range? I find that 48" range is great for turn one and turn 6 if your suites are still alive. Those middle 4 turns tend to be played in 24" range or less. At that point, the broadsides / railhead pop the close transports, the pathfinders light them up with marker lights and then you advance into Helios range and wipe out the target squad.

But then again I like to run the triple weapon suites which don't seem to be that popular.

I'm not sure where you're getting 48" from, but the 1st and 6th turns are usually the most important ones. 1st to pop transports, 5th/6th to shoot opponents off objectives and mop up kill points. Keeping the opponent at range depends on the army, Piranha are the main method. Mech lists also kite opponents, dramatically reducing your opponents advance relative to your own army. It doesn't always keep the opponent over 18" away, all the time. Thats not the point. The point is to have your suits shooting for as many turns as possible, including the first and last turns.

I don't mind Helios, I'll occasionally take a Helios HQ squad depending on what the rest of my army looks like. Its great for Podding dreads, Dreadknights, non SS Termies, and pwns DoA squads. Its not a default for me, and wouldn't take it on elite squads due to low BS, but they have a use.

As for three weapon suits, once upon a time I ran a Sunfire (is that what its called?) Shas'O, but they just cost too much. Also a target array is a much better third piece than a third weapon (on HQ suits). Better to have 2 accurate weapons than 3 inaccurate ones (when you can only fire 2).

IMO i think mixtures work together. I Use Fireknifes mixed with a Helios. You maintain range and anti-light armour vehicles and then also heavy armour and one extra TEQ shot. You have to be within 12" for the fusion blaster and you are already rapid firing with the plasma rifles.

im2randomghgh wrote:
That's because they are ridiculously expensive and because of that it means less suits. You could simply get more suits and arm them to the teeth, with those spare points.

Well, the 3 weapon suites run around 12 points more than other combinations, but when you always choose the best weapon for the role, it really helps with their average points spent per kill. Take number of kills generated by shooting at GEQ, VEQ, MEQ, TEQ, and TEQ w/ SS, and divide by point cost of suite. This yields average points per kill (I'm rounding to the nearest point).

TLBC w/ TA (unnamed). 42 points per kill.
TLMP w/ TA (deathrain). 67 points per kill.
BC,MP,MT (firestorm). 52 points per kill. 49 points per kill if team lead with TLBC & HWMT
FB,MP,MT (firesurge). 69 points per kill. 57 points per kill if team lead with TA & HWMT
PR,MP,MT (fireknife). 56 points per kill. 52 points per kill if team lead with TA & HWMT
PR,BC, MT (bladestorm). 49 points per kill. 47 points per kill if team lead with TA & HWMT
PR,FB,MT (helios). 62 points per kill. 58 points per kill if team lead with TA & HWMT

Teamlead w/ PR,MP,FB,HWMT (Sunfire). 68 points per kill.
Teamlead w/ PR,BC,FB,HWMT (unnamed). 56 points per kill.

In general, you pay a few more points per kill for the 3 weapon suites, but then you always get to pick the most efficient load out for that situation, and with the Sunfire, you get the TEQ killing power while still having a MP to fire early and late in the game. And honestly, if you were just looking for the most efficient possible loadout in points per kill, you'd be running twinlinked burst cannon!