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Samus_aran115 wrote: you don't want a company to hate its customers...

Too late...seems like they already do.

At this point, any sensible GW player should be re-evaluting whether or not you enjoy being treated like dirt by a company that runs on the money you spend. Personally, I've already started the transition away from GW...and let me say that there are a LOT better, cheaper games out on the market right now!

I've barely put much more work into Inquisimunda simply because I don't feel the company is worth supporting anymore.

It's sad but I'm tired of paying 50% more than market value for a product that GW simply cannot write good rules for or fully support with sufficient FAQs (gamers need to ask the critical question of why an independently compiled FAQ like the INAT is better than the actual company FAQs). I'm tired of hearing how GW switching materials (first from metal to plastic, now metal to resin) will "decrease cost" only to have costs increase very single year for the past 10 years.

Just remember that we must remove any strong language and abusive users, in consideration of our youngest fans.

I call bs, no kid can afford to play Warhammer.

infinite_array wrote:I decided to leave a comment:

"[DELETED]"

Its been a few minutes prolly looks like this now.

ancientsociety wrote:At this point, any sensible GW player should be re-evaluting whether or not you enjoy being treated like dirt by a company that runs on the money you spend.

Bit OTT for an American flag but I can see the Aussies, Kiwis, et alia, feeling this way.

Again, folks, I think it might be a good idea to praise the web dudes for at least acknowledging that there's something winding up the fans rather than simply ignoring it.

ancientsociety wrote:At this point, any sensible GW player should be re-evaluting whether or not you enjoy being treated like dirt by a company that runs on the money you spend. Personally, I've already started the transition away from GW...and let me say that there are a LOT better, cheaper games out on the market right now!

I don't know, from the Webdudes posts on the GW FB page there are still GW kool-aid drinkers who are more then willing to tell GW how awesome they are.

Useful link posted by a chap on facebook:

http://www.mrcplast.com/news-news_open-57725.html

spaceelf wrote:

MajorTom11 wrote:
It is a fine line here, I can completely understand that they don't want their Facebook page hijacked into a non-stop bitchfest, it is not the purpose or design of their work there.

I am sure that GW views Facebook as a form of advertising, and thus certainly do not want negative posts on their Facebook page. However, it is also a social network. If you piss people off then they will react. I think that GW will find that they either have to treat their customers right or pull out of Facebook.

Yes, that is exactly what I wrote in the rest of the same post lol

Manchu wrote:

ancientsociety wrote:At this point, any sensible GW player should be re-evaluting whether or not you enjoy being treated like dirt by a company that runs on the money you spend.

Bit OTT for an American flag but I can see the Aussies, Kiwis, et alia, feeling this way.

Again, folks, I think it might be a good idea to praise the web dudes for at least acknowledging that there's something winding up the fans rather than simply ignoring it.

You are right, the webdudes did take a big gamble coming out and saying something about what was getting people all upset. They didn't have to step up and say something since it wasn't their decision or actions that caused this, just those of the higher ups.

Samus_aran115 wrote:I wish people would just leave them alone.... If anything, you don't want a company to hate its customers...

You almost had me crying there, Almost

What could they do if they did hate their customers. That their not already doing

pretre wrote:but you are attributing to malice what can adequately be attributed to incompetence.

It is always suspicious when smart people consistently do stupid things.

ProtoClone wrote:I don't know, from the Webdudes posts on the GW FB page there are still GW kool-aid drinkers who are more then willing to tell GW how awesome they are.

But see, that's the problem. We on Dakka, while a large number of GW players, do not in any way represent the majority of their customers. Even if half of the population of Dakka stopped buying from GW (which is quite a generous estimation), it wouldn't suddenly plunge the company into bankruptcy. There are enough other fans out there that will still buy, and plenty of new players that will get drawn in. Does that mean that you shouldn't boycott the game? Of course not. I plan on it myself. Just don't expect GW to crumble any time soon.

Acknowledging there is something wrong is the best thing so far we have gotten from GW.

How far can we push GW into a corner now?

There is alot of things we need to redress, the biggest one being the regional market restrictions.

Price changes are secondary to that primary goal, as this is very unfair to those consumers (even if it is legal or justified).

WarOne wrote:Acknowledging there is something wrong is the best thing so far we have gotten from GW.

This is absolutely imperative to keep in mind. Of course, it's not a Standard Bearer from Jervis (a good place to tackle this in some ways) but it's something.

Prices will not go down. That's counterintuitive, really. But one thing that might come out of this is convincing someone at GW, someone who might one day be in charge, that communicating with the customers is not necessarily a bad thing.

Guildsman wrote:

ProtoClone wrote:I don't know, from the Webdudes posts on the GW FB page there are still GW kool-aid drinkers who are more then willing to tell GW how awesome they are.

But see, that's the problem. We on Dakka, while a large number of GW players, do not in any way represent the majority of their customers.

That's what Facebook is for. Casual fans of the game may have gone to the main site and been directed to "like" GW on Facebook. Suddenly, they see this whole fiasco.

Dakka, Warseer, and BOLS aren't the only ones complaining now. Facebook is useful.

Ultimately GW has control of there page on face book.

So you have to start another page they have no control off.
Let everybody post negative remarks on that

Enough negative publicity and they will notice.

Negativity is easy to ignore.

Positive comments stand out when they're reasonable: "We don't like the prices but we do like the communication. Please realize that communication is a good thing."

loki old fart wrote:Ultimately GW has control of there page on face book.

So you have to start another page they have no control off.
Let everybody post negative remarks on that

Enough negative publicity and they will notice.

Remember they are about to open the Bowie Bunker as well.

Imagine seeing a horde (even a small one) of GW former/enraged customers protesting outside their store on their Opening Day.

Pickets and signs are bad images for a company.


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Manchu wrote:Negativity is easy to ignore.

Positive comments stand out when they're reasonable: "We don't like the prices but we do like the communication. Please realize that communication is a good thing."

And asking them to communicate is reasonable, isn't it?

loki old fart wrote:Ultimately GW has control of there page on face book.

So you have to start another page they have no control off.
Let everybody post negative remarks on that

Enough negative publicity and they will notice.

There's a difference between "negative remarks" and "negative remarks for the sake of being negative".

Example: "I'm upset and troubled by these announcements and the ramifications they have for the company I've supported for years. As a result of this whole situation, I will no longer be purchasing any Games Workshop products and selling my currently owned products off to afford buying into new systems from the other companies which are out there right now."

That's an example of a "negative remark"---couched in such a way that there's no way whatsoever they can delete it without it being viably called "sweeping it under the rug".

Example: "WTF GW? ARE YOU STUPID?! FETH THIS! I'M OUT! I HOPE YOU ALL FAIL BECAUSE OF MATT WARD! HE'S TERRIBLE AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT!"
That's an example of the second kind of remark--which they've been promptly deleting and what led to the FB page being locked yesterday.

Okay, Kanluwen, let's not drive off-topic here. We're not talking about comments like your second example.


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Manchu wrote:Negativity is easy to ignore.

Positive comments stand out when they're reasonable: "We don't like the prices but we do like the communication. Please realize that communication is a good thing."

And asking them to communicate is reasonable, isn't it?

Kanluwen wrote:WTF GW? ARE YOU STUPID?! FETH THIS! I'M OUT! I HOPE YOU ALL FAIL BECAUSE OF MATT WARD! HE'S TERRIBLE AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT!

AHAH! A horribly out of context quote that is irrefutable that Kan hates Mat Ward!

Welcome to the Mat Ward hate club.




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Manchu wrote:Yes - we know it's reasonable. We have to convince some of the folks in GW that it's reasonable.

And the first step is getting someone on the horn to tell us why they are doing it.

WarOne wrote:And the first step is getting someone on the horn to tell us why they are doing it.

And that's not easy to do..

we have 3-12 days for someone from upper management to realize there's a problem

then 4-16 days for them to draft a response in every language they need to

then they will have to wait for just the right time to post the response, which will be 1 week before it's supposed to be released since they're not allowed to give us any advanced info

By then it will be october and no one will care anymore.

Manchu wrote:Useful link posted by a chap on facebook:

http://www.mrcplast.com/news-news_open-57725.html

Of course, they never dropped thier prices when PP (Polypropolene) and PS (Polystyrene) resin plummeted over 60% starting in November of 2008 through June of 2009.

Necros wrote:

By then it will be october and no one will care anymore.

Relative, those who did care may no longer be in the hobby/try to support the hobby.

A realisitc scenario is that GW ignores the complaints. People adjust. They may buy less, or buy second hand. They may go to other hobbies, or quit outright.

But when the next increase comes (hell, it could even be this year), the fervor is either only going to get worse or their market share on the miniatures hobby will shrink.

I think it is important that they hear this now before prices become even more inflexible. I like the miniatures, but affording them is another thing entirely.

Guildsman wrote:

ProtoClone wrote:I don't know, from the Webdudes posts on the GW FB page there are still GW kool-aid drinkers who are more then willing to tell GW how awesome they are.

But see, that's the problem. We on Dakka, while a large number of GW players, do not in any way represent the majority of their customers. Even if half of the population of Dakka stopped buying from GW (which is quite a generous estimation), it wouldn't suddenly plunge the company into bankruptcy. There are enough other fans out there that will still buy, and plenty of new players that will get drawn in. Does that mean that you shouldn't boycott the game? Of course not. I plan on it myself. Just don't expect GW to crumble any time soon.

You are right.

I would imagine the loyalists find the FB page a safe place to show their support en mass.

wyomingfox wrote:

Manchu wrote:Useful link posted by a chap on facebook:

http://www.mrcplast.com/news-news_open-57725.html

Of course, they never dropped thier prices when PP (Polypropolene) and PS (Polystyrene) resin plummeted over 60% starting in November of 2008 through June of 2009.

Nuts.

If GW would actually come out and say why they are increasing the prices, that might help.

WarOne wrote:And the first step is getting someone on the horn to tell us why they are doing it.

No, the first step is responding positively to the anomalous behavior that we want to see more of.


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wyomingfox wrote:

Manchu wrote:Useful link posted by a chap on facebook:

http://www.mrcplast.com/news-news_open-57725.html

Of course, they never dropped thier prices when PP (Polypropolene) and PS (Polystyrene) resin plummeted over 60% starting in November of 2008 through June of 2009.

I don't ever expect to see price decreases. I think that's an unrealistic expectation.

The idea that GW could eventually go back to having some kind of dialog with their consumers is more probable. But it's a long term goal.

The faster GW falls so that the axe falls on the incompetent management, the better. They've created such a hostile environment that the only salvation would be in a total reboot.

The cost of raw materials is about 2% of plastic models. If it doubles, the proportion goes up to 4%. GW's gross margin is 76%. It drops to 74% on the increase in price of plastic. This does not justify a 17% increase in the retail price of the kit. A 0.5% increase in retail price would cover the increased plastic cost.

Samus_aran115 wrote:I wish people would just leave them alone.... If anything, you don't want a company to hate its customers...

Is this sarcasm?