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There was a post a while back that GW's ties with New Line (LotR and Hobbit) and video game companies is forcing them to be more aggressive.

With New Line if they don't keep their own stuff under wraps and protect their own IP how can they be trusted with the secrets and IP for a gazillion dollar movie?

WRT video games they have to show their partners they're protecting the IP they paid a licencing fee for.

Bottom line there might be more to this than GW being dicks.

Yeah it looks similar. Does this mean that GW can go and tell Reaper that their conventional Skeleton Warriors with spears look too much like GW's Skeleton Warriors with spears? Or maybe the faces on Reaper's vampires look too much like the faces on GW's vampire models.

It would be a little different is this was a model currently in production and in any way causing GW to lose money, but it is not

This is just another dickish move by GW, in a way I can't wait for them to fall on their arses and be forced to sell their IP/close shop/ whatever just so the shenanigans would stop.

Kirbinator wrote:
Wow. Truly I hope that all situations you come across do not fall under your "It doesn't affect me, so who gives a crap?" attitude.

If it was for something more significant than a single head on a single model, I probably would give a crap. If the entire company got shut down, I'd feel stronger about it. One part of one model isn't something worth Chicken Little-ing over.

Of course it looks similar; it's a lammasu head. Just as if you created horses that looked like horses, you can be pretty sure that they'd look similar to Glade Rider horses. Shocking.

Darth Bob wrote:Yeah it looks similar. Does this mean that GW can go and tell Reaper that their conventional Skeleton Warriors with spears look too much like GW's Skeleton Warriors with spears? Or maybe the faces on Reaper's vampires look too much like the faces on GW's vampire models.

Yeah it's a tough call. Lammasu are based on Babylonian sculpture which has been in the public domain for about 4000 years...



GW can claim things like the Space Marine armor are copyrighted and trademarked but this is a bit of a stretch.

Someone said actually there are more differences than similarities.

Have just been admiring how RH have adapted the double horn that you can see on the Assyrian sculptures. (see KK's pic above)
Notably GW's only has one set of horns.

Tusks and a ring are the only real similarity.
Again that could have been addressed sooner in the design process if there was a problem.

Kanluwen wrote:

Do you really think if there was a company out there creating things similar to Privateer Press' warjacks, that Privateer Press wouldn't be all over them?

If said company was creating alt heads and weapons for their jacks? No. They wouldn't. PP also has a tendency to release their own conversion packs for models that use a similar chassis so that there is no need to convert. PP's requirement is that everything must be WYSIWYG. If the jack/infantry model is armed with an ax in the description, then they must needs be armed with an ax on the model, despite your conversion. PP also includes the proper base sizes for models, and even when a model has not yet been released for a particular unit or jack, you are still told how big a base to use (I'm looking at you, Mangler Squig.) There is honestly no excuse for a company producing a unit for it's game that has no description whatsoever for the dimensions of the model, when the rules for that game specify that model dimensions are vital for game play, then they go after companies who actually create the models that they should have made in the first place. Or, as more of a concern, those companies who simply build accessory packs.

Ah well. GW is the one creating the secondary market through their own actions. Perhaps this is indicative of serious Chaos Dwarves release? I guess we'll find out a week before it hits.

There was no design problem, it's just GW being douchebags and waiting for a small company to invest heavily in both time and capital and then sending a BS claim as it finally comes to fruition.

Having found the design I believe to be GW's old one:

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu123/chaoswarh/Golden%20Hat/GH12.jpg?t=1300641017
http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b477/mocchus/Lamassu.jpg

(Two models from different people that look to be the same models)

and comparing them to RH's: http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0034/6452/files/lamassu-head-sculpt.jpg?1291119972

I am wondering where exactly the glaring similarities lie...

Avatar 720 wrote:I am wondering where exactly the glaring similarities lie...

Horns, rings, and a face. Things that have been on every lammasu since Babylon.

Games workshops' Lammasu



Raging heroes' Lammasu


I can see the resemblance but still, GW is getting out of hand.

Only the head, which itself is barely arguable.

I'm a chick, I can say this:

....does everyone at GW management have their period this week?

Kanluwen wrote:Whether or not they sell it currently is irrelevant. It was in production at one point.

Actually, no. That's not enough. Companies have to actively refresh copyright and trademarks. You can't just say "I made a similar thing twenty years ago, so you can't make it now." It is likely that GW refreshed their copyright, however.

As for the content of this article itself...are you angry? Upset? Then vote with your money, because message board griping won't do you a lick of good. Stop buying GW figures, start patronizing other companies, and you'll send a message.

SkaerKrow wrote:As for the content of this article itself...are you angry? Upset? Then vote with your money, because message board griping won't do you a lick of good. Stop buying GW figures, start patronizing other companies, and you'll send a message.

Agreed! Which is why I haven't bought anything GW in nearly a year and I have one of the now-limited-release Lamassus.

My favorite part is where they're claiming copyright infringement based on a model that's been out of production for...what? Ten years?

SkaerKrow wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Whether or not they sell it currently is irrelevant. It was in production at one point.

Actually, no. That's not enough. Companies have to actively refresh copyright and trademarks. You can't just say "I made a similar thing twenty years ago, so you can't make it now." It is likely that GW refreshed their copyright, however.

I wouldn't be surprised. Supposedly FW's Chaos Dwarf line is going to be "pretty complete".

Thats pretty bs, theres no way GW could win in court in this case.

In a US court maybe. Raging Heroes is French, there might be more protections for GW's shenanigans in Euroland.

Honestly, I'm sure that Raging Heroes would win a court case. The question is, is it worth it for them? A small company being blocked from selling a single bit? I would wager not, so they take the path of least resistance and bow to GW instead of getting involved in a legal battle which could ruin them through court costs alone.

I can't believe that GW would even want to fight this issue. That old lamasu model in the picture is so hideous, I would think that they'd want everyone to just forget it ever happened and come up with something completely new.

They might be doing it for the future when they plan to have Forgeworld release a new one.

(Quoted form the CHS discussion, posted by aka_mythos)
They're legally allowed to do what they did, even if GW says otherwise, so I'm not going into that. I'm going to talk about the ethics first. Its all variation on a theme, if people in the past had this same sort of perspective you're claiming, every representation of Jesus or whatever else in classic artworks would have to be entirely different. They aren't, and for the longest time there was actually the notion of a refinement of concepts, where there was the express expectation of portions of original works coming in some part from existing works. The ethical belief that Raging Heroes shouldn't have done this is an entirely fictitious notion that stem from year of companies like GW imposing a false sense of super entitlement.

Just because two things look alike doesn't mean the first instance is some how more in the right. IF, GW some how went to court and won, restitution and remedy would be sooooo drastically reduced because of the incredibly derivative nature of their work. I think people confuse alot of the subtleties here in that GW's representation of a Lamassu, isn't part of its IP, it can't ever completely be. There is a distinction between unique IP, and an original stylized version of a preexisting concept. Such a work is only really protected in its unique instance, such as stopping someone from recasting it or use without reinterpretation... or trade dress. Stylizing a lamassu similar to GW isn't the same as copying their exact interpretation; as it is as much a stylized interpretation to the original concept as it maybe from GW's.

The idea that because Raging Heroes made this *gasp* to provide a service and make money should have no bearing on this. At best this fact is only relevant so far as if restitution were a hypothetical possibility.

As far as the similarities between the GW model and Raging Heroes' the interpretations people have given are rather superficial, looking at only the similarities of specific features while disregarding many differences. First the most blatant thing is Raging Heroes' Lamassu model shares a common body with a Manticore model... GW's is a bull's body... by volume that's almost 80% of the model. The riders are distinctly different, that's another 10% difference. Then we have the heads... the only part people have bothered to talk about; how similar in size are the heads? The Raging Heroes' head has shorter horns; it has a mane and not a perm; it has braided beard instead of just a curly beard; it has adornment on the tips of its beard, GW's doesn't; it has forehead ridges, GW's doesn't; and it has protrusions that wrap the base of the horns, GW's doesn't. That means at best GW's claims hinges on only about 4% similarity. My tablet PC has more than that to a IPad. I would call that a passing superficial similarity and easily enough to say the remaining differences are a by product of common themes, inspiration, and use. Even if Raging Heroes admitted to trying to copy GW and to take their sales with this model, that is irrelevant and its an expectation of competition that competitors will try to match and surpass you... even still the similarities are too immaterial.


I think he makes a very valid point here, also if they are doing it for a future model producution, surely that is not allowed to be done since they have not even created or released it yet ?

Bro SRM:
Which will look surprisingly like the RH Lamassu

That is the post to which I referred earlier Wolf.

Hello,
It is funny that they hit them and not Mantic for their Chaos Dwarf line, perhaps they did not want to take on a bigger player in the market is my guess.

Regards,
Carl

A good point was raised on BoW
Typically GW protecting their image from inferior works is cited as a reason for issuing a CnD

It can hardly be the case in this instance.

Ghiest1 wrote:Hello,
It is funny that they hit them and not Mantic for their Chaos Dwarf line, perhaps they did not want to take on a bigger player in the market is my guess.

Regards,
Carl

I'd love to see GW try and take on Mantic.

...Now I'm picturing Ronnie battling his way through hordes of GW redshirts, to vanquish the Dark Lord (dutifully played by Tom Kirby) atop his mountain of money.

^ I would like to think amongst the gold is all other dead bodies of other companies that have failed to take on Gamesworkshop.

I just don't understand the method to their madness....they're going after the looks of models and somehow practically every one of Scibor's scifi models or every single one of AoW's models (ESPECIALLY the Dwarf Slayers and Ogre guy) slipped under their radar?

What the hell is going through their minds?