Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Hey, you have a go at me for suggesting what you see as a generalization then come back with a stick figure colored in.

I in no way had a go at you and I would expect an experienced Dakka user like yourself to understand that. And if all you got from the point I made was "a stick figure colored in" then it stands to reason that you won't listen to anything said to you.

If you have already made up your mind what you want to do, why have a discussion at all?

If you don't like it when people say no to your ideas why do you keep trying to push them onto others? And you'll note that this discussion was never about how the competition would be organized.

Also I'm talking about this kind of comparison.





Both are awesome, but you put that in a list vote on Dakka, and the colored one will walk all over the sketch.

This is a false statement. Assumptions based off of personal opinion are not fact

I personally see no issue with multiple categories, it doesn't take that much longer to set up and then list up for judging. On a side note I'm not an artist, and wouldn't be entering, but have a keen interest in good art, and just feel some folks will be hamstrung just because of their chosen medium.

I personally would try to remedy it.

Having the mediums used split into multiple categories and then allowing everyone to enter into each medium actually makes it easier for each of those 'master artists' to win every time and makes it harder for the less skilled artists to win. By only being able to enter one item per genre it increases the chances that a less skilled artist would win, by having the existing categories be open media it allows everyone who enters the chance to use the medium they know best and can create their best work with. Having categories based on what medium is used also limits who can enter, as there is no way to represent every medium that someone may use.

So your 'remedy' would actually make it harder for the less skilled artists to win in addition limiting the types of medium used.

LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote:

Odins Beard wrote:

LostSoulCasey'sLaw wrote:If you guys really aren't up for my Golden Dakka idea then I may try and orchestrate it myself. Thoughts?

I think this belongs in its own thread

Righteo mate, good luck with the art contest! If you need anything I’d be happy to help just drop me a pm. I'm off to try and organize The Golden Dakka! Haha!

You to, if I need anything I'll let you know and you do the same eh?

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:

Lanceradvanced wrote:

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:It was more about the fairness of judging a sketch against a full color if I'm honest. I've seen some lovely sketches lately, but you'd never pick one over a full color pic, actual paint or paintshop pro.

Yes I would... because some "sketches" are wonderfully done and shaded, and some "full color pics" well, um... suck...

Once again, a poor comparison, look at mine above.

Actually it isn't, it shows that a piece of art is going to be chosen because of how well it is made. Not because it's colored, you said and I quote (emphasis by me)

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:It was more about the fairness of judging a sketch against a full color if I'm honest. I've seen some lovely sketches lately, but you'd never pick one over a full color pic, actual paint or paintshop pro.

This is an example of when you would choose a non-colored piece of art over a chosen one that completely proves you wrong. And I actually just realized that you tried to tell others what they would do and not do MDS. That's a very arrogant thing to do.

Lanceradvanced wrote:

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:

Both are awesome, but you put that in a list vote on Dakka, and the colored one will walk all over the sketch.

I'll vote for the sketch, it's more dynamically posed, the clouds are worked in and not just an after thought...

And once again someone proving you're statement to be false.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Heh, I have a feeling you'll both say that.

Their word and opinion is as valid as yours is just, every member of Dakkas is just as valid.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:You seem to be missing the point, I know they are both awesome. What I am saying odds are the color will win in an open vote, which is the only way you could do it here on Dakka.

If someone is willing to go to the lengths of starting and running an art competition here on Dakka, I just can't figure why they wouldn't go the extra mile and make it much more interesting to enter and vote on.

arkapello wrote:+ 1 in the "its an awesome idea" camp. I would love to see some artwork, and enter my own!

I’m sure there are some artists on here that will make most of the entries (including mine) look pathetic but since when is that a bad thing? there are people who paint minis that make most on here look pathetic and that doesn’t seem to be a problem!

If you run an art competition, the best person/people will win. What is wrong with that for crying out loud!

better cancel the London marathon, all the professional athletes keep winning! Booooooooooring.

Exactly, this is a competition MDS. A competition is to determine who is the best at something, if an artist improves by comparing their work to someone else’s in the competition then that is always a bonus. But that is not the point of it.

If you would like yourself and I could create a thread based off of a series of artistic Warhammer challenges where say each week we create a scenario that challenges artists to use new mediums and new styles in order to improve their abilities. This being a competition is where artists display their best work, the best that they can do even if it isn't that great. My format allows artists to do that in a competitive setting while also allowing more then just the best artists to win repeatedly. Your idea does the opposite in the interests of seeing more art.

Perkustin wrote:

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:You seem to be missing the point, I know they are both awesome. What I am saying odds are the color will win in an open vote

Hmmm how naive and vaguely prejudiced.

Nice to think you have such a high regard to your fellow forum users. Art is for the masses not elitist snobs.

Set it up, wait till you get say 8 or more entries and open a vote. If it attracts interest more entries will be submitted next time

While I do agree that his statement is naive I don't think any prejudice was intended.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:@ arkapello - Aye, having the same folks winning wouldn't bother me, heck look at Golden Daemon in the UK.

This statement as well as the others you have made lead me to believe that you would rather this be an artistic get together where it doesn’t matter who wins as long as everyone improves. While I endorse improvement and am always happy to see fellow artists get better the point of this is for someone to win, and to make it fair the same person cannot win more then twice. So the same person winning over and over again may not bother you but in this competition everyone will have an equal chance at winning.

I do think the split categories would also been a boon to the entering artists by the way.

Extra sketching, making Black and white pics and full color, helps folks practice, aim for something and challenge their skills in mediums perhaps they haven't done before.

If you are thinking of running art comps, I'm thinking giving three or four categories allowing folks to enter one in each, would give us all something interesting to look over in the long run, and help budding artists improve their craft.

Again you're under the impression that this is some sort of "let's help everyone improve" seminar. It's not

Which in my mind is the whole point of this kind of competition

Except that what you want isn't a competition, so what you have in your mind is wrong for what is going to take place. As I said I'd be more then happy to help you create a series of challenges for artists to improve their skills but that is not what the competition is about and I won't be changing its format (which works perfectly well the way it is) to better suit that.

@Perkustin - the observation is based on several votes I have seen at various sites. Like I said I'm into art (well comic and fan art anyways) in a big way, but the application would be the same.

Just because something you saw on another site worked there does not mean it would work everywhere or that there is anything wrong with the system that is going to be used.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:That’s a bit of an exaggeration, we are talking about three or four types of art most folks I have found view as these groups anyways.

I see folks doing Sketch, Black and white, full color, even chalk, crayons etc in their separate groups on other comic fan sites and it seems to work really well.

So you want us to limit the mediums that people can use and in turn limit the amount of people who enter based off of what you have seen on other sites.

arkapello wrote:

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:@ arkapello - Aye, having the same folks winning wouldn't bother me, heck look at Golden Daemon in the UK.

I do think the split categories would also been a boon to the entering artists by the way.

Extra sketching, making Black and white pics and full color, helps folks practice, aim for something and challenge their skills in mediums perhaps they haven't done before.

If you are thinking of running art comps, I'm thinking giving three or four categories allowing folks to enter one in each, would give us all something interesting to look over in the long run, and help budding artists improve their craft.

Yeah the category point was perfectly good, if nothing else it would encourage more variety which would be awesome. More people would submit sketches etc if they thought they wouldn't just be overlooked. I think that’s a really good idea.

plus the "more chances to enter in different ways" thing. I wouldn’t enter a sketch if I had a big colorful art-piece and only one "go" to enter. the more we get to see the better!

His categories idea actually limits the number of artists who could equal as there is no way you could make enough categories to cover every type of art. This will not be a gallery where people submit their art for others to see, this is a competition.

Content Josho wrote:I'm all for exhibiting more non-mini Warhammer artwork, if only for an excuse to break out the graphics tablet again now that university is out of the way.

Also, how about some 3D artwork? I recently submitted this for a computer games modeling project:

Yup all media types are welcome so people can use what they're most comfortable with as long as it is actual art mind you

Zefig wrote:I definitely like the 4-or-so-categories idea. It'd keep things interesting, and I bet there'd be a lot more entries. And you still don't have to break it down into super finite categories. There's a world of difference between "Everybody's a winner!" and "There can be only one!"

There is also a difference between "let's make it so that 1 person can win every category just as long as we get to see more art" and "Lets make it so that multiple people can win".

Another thought to evening the playing field a bit would be to allow the voters multiple choices. I'm pretty sure that's an option on the polls here. There'd still presumably be enough people with different tastes voting that there'd be a clear winner in the end.

Actually you'll be pleased to know that this was already going to be a facet of the voting

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:

arkapello wrote:
I wouldn’t enter a sketch if I had a big colorful art-piece and only one "go" to enter. the more we get to see the better!

Aye, 100% agree with you here.

So you agree that in a competition a person would enter a piece of art using the medium they work best with which is what my system allows a person to do. Sketching may not be arkapellos best style of art so he would enter a full colored art piece on his one time per genre and do everything he could to make it his best so he could win. That is the point of a competition, not getting as many pictures as possible so people have more to look at.

@the Thread in general - This is exactly the sort of thing crossing my mind. The solo comp is fine, but if there is only the one category then they'll enter their most impressive piece. There could all sorts of funky stuff we'd be missing out on because it's deemed unlikely to beat the other 'big' showy pieces.

Apparently it isn't the sort of thing that crossed your mind, it's a competition where the best people win by submitting their most impressive work as you've said. yet you keep pushing to have it be some sort of creative pow wow so that you and a few others can see more pictures. What you want this to be is not what it's going to be.

Heck, you don't even need to run all four at the same time, you can do two at a time, or one and switch to another type every few months. Hell if you set four categories, one type every three months would stretch the interest all year, but switch to a different style each quarter of the year to keep things fresh. It'd be another year before you have the same type of style again.

Note these are just suggestions, not saying I'm right here at all, just trying to look at it from the angle I've seen used elsewhere and worked really well from what I could see.

Well with all dew respect (and for the second time) I won't be using your suggestions, I appreciate the time and thought but they are not ideas that work in a competition. They are more suited for an artistic get together to display everyone’s ideas. If you would like to create a series of challenges to help artists improve their abilities I would be happy to help. But that is not the point of a competition and it will not be the focus of mine.