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Grey Templar wrote:They would only be destroyed if the vehicle actually moved Flat out.


its perfectly possable to ram a vehicle and not have gone over 12" and then destroy the Trukk.

Okay, consider this.
I measure to move 18" to move my trukk flat out and say that's how I'm moving it.
6" away is a piece of area terrain that is difficult.
I roll for my dangerous terrain test and roll a '1'.
My trukk is now placed just outside the area terain and is immobilized.
Is it not wrecked because I only moved 6"?
Is it 'wrecked' because I measured 18" which is flat out?
Are the passengers now dead?

Similar to the tank shock discussion.

non-skimmers do not wreck when immobilized after/during flat out; so that situation does not matter.

Kommissar Kel wrote:non-skimmers do not wreck when immobilized after/during flat out; so that situation does not matter.

True Kel, but the situation of having a vehicle encounter a situation (the difficult terrain and dangerous terrain test) during a move (in this case intended ot be flat out) and suffering a result (the roll of '1' immobilizes the vehicle) should not decrease the intended movement distance (flat out) regardless of actual distance moved (in my example 6").
Thied to explain the above as least confusing as possible!

Well, excepting for a ram/tank-shock; movement is not Declarative, it is reactionary.

What I mean is you declare you are moving, not how far/fast you are moving; once you finish your move you see how far you moved in order to see how fast you moved.

The only things that really limit or Force a set speed is:
1) tank-shock; where you declare your intended # of inches
2) Ram which makes you move as fast as possible, which may get reduced if you stop early(I still do not totally buy this last bit, but I am simply not arguing it any further because the rules are not clear enough to claim they are always moving full even when they don't)
3) Disembarking from a fast transport before the transport moves(you then cannot move flat-out)
4)Really large vehicles coming in from reserve(doesn't force a set speed, but does limit moving too slowly)

time wizard wrote:6" away is a piece of area terrain that is difficult.
I roll for my dangerous terrain test and roll a '1'.
My trukk is now placed just outside the area terain and is immobilized.
Is it not wrecked because I only moved 6"?
Is it 'wrecked' because I measured 18" which is flat out?
Are the passengers now dead?

Similar to the tank shock discussion.

in that case, the vehicle hasn't moved Flat out(yet) because it was immobilized before it actually moved 12"+

Vehicle movement is always done on how far you actually moved, not how far you were going to move.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Well, excepting for a ram/tank-shock; movement is not Declarative, it is reactionary.

What I mean is you declare you are moving, not how far/fast you are moving; once you finish your move you see how far you moved in order to see how fast you moved.

The only things that really limit or Force a set speed is:
1) tank-shock; where you declare your intended # of inches
2) Ram which makes you move as fast as possible, which may get reduced if you stop early(I still do not totally buy this last bit, but I am simply not arguing it any further because the rules are not clear enough to claim they are always moving full even when they don't)
3) Disembarking from a fast transport before the transport moves(you then cannot move flat-out)
4)Really large vehicles coming in from reserve(doesn't force a set speed, but does limit moving too slowly)

Re #3 above;
The rules for fast transport vehicles on page 70 says you can't disembark from a fast transport that has moved, or is going to move, flat out.
Seems to me that this means you will have to declare that the vehicle is going to make that move.
Nothing in the rule addresses what happens if the move does not occur.
What about;

Unit of boys in trukk, I say in movement phase I am going to move 18".
As in above example there is difficult terrain 6" in front of me.
Boys cannot disembark as I am going to move flat out.
I fail the dangerous terrain test so my trukk stops after moving only 6".
Can I now disembark the boys?
If I can do they disembark where the trukk stopped, in front of the terrain, or where I originally wanted to disembark them at the beginning of the move?
Or are they prohibited from disembarking at all because I said the trukk was going to move flat out?

It would seem that once you say the vehicle is going to be moving flat out and measure for that move, then it follows all applicable rules for a fast vehicle moving flat out, regardless of the distance actually travelled.

You don't declare how far you are going to move. Once you begin moving a model. In fact the rules allow you to measure your full distance without actually moving that far. If the total distance moved is over 12" and you have disembarked, you are limited and cannot move that far. You will have to move back so that you can only move 12"

Determining speed is only based on how far the vehicle has moved. If it has stopped short of where you planned on moving to it, you still are only moving as fast as the distance that you have moved.

DeepBeige wrote:Actually, there IS a good reason to do this.

A trukk moving flat out with a ram could deal a strength 10 hit.

8 for speed (24"/3) + 2 for the ram.

Following that, the trukk could be destroyed by the ramming but instead suffer a Kerrunch result (preventing the destroyed result and instead disembark the squad safely), the squad inside could then shoot and assault an enemy unit... theoretically.

I thought of this a while ago, and it just seems like good orkiness to do this. However, I never have, because I wasn't sure how it fit with the rules, and without an official ruling from GW via FAQ or an agreement with my opponent I wouldn't dare pull a move like this.

I'm pretty interested in how everyone feels about it.

Yeah, this is exactly what I was trying to do, but got called on it. Just seemed so Orky to crash your own vehicle to destroy your opponents, then pour out the Meganobs to deal with the crew. No more now, to do so is clearly too controversial, seeing as there is no consensus here.

So just a run down on the threads of arguments, there seems to be three:

1). Ramming with Trukks with the result of destruction ALWAYS results in the passengers removal because ramming must always be counted as going full speed; i.e., Flatout.

2). Ramming with Trukks with the result of destruction ONLY results in the passengers removal if the movement actually was flat out.

3). Ramming with Trukks with the result of destruction means that the passengers disembark with only the harm caused or not caused them in the Ramshackle rule, and no auto-removal.

Is that a good run down?

Here's a further question: if ramming requires you go full speed, couldn't you unload your fast transport, and ram at 12 inches, the full speed allowed for a vehicle just unloaded?

PS. Ramming at full speed actually is a Strength 9 hit.

thunderingjove wrote:Here's a further question: if ramming requires you go full speed, couldn't you unload your fast transport, and ram at 12 inches, the full speed allowed for a vehicle just unloaded?

Absolutely not; as your vehicle is fast you must move flat out(or at least attempt to) therefore when you go to move the Trukk and declare a ram(rams are declared movement) you are then not allowed to disembark your troops(via the Fast Vehicle rules)

Visa versa: if you disembark your troops before you declare your Ram your ram is then completely disallowed(Flat out movement is denied to you as you disembarked troops).

lol, in that situation he would be technically going as fast as the vehicle allows at that moment. I could see the argument either way and would probably allow it to be done against me though it would be a pretty crappy ram at 5 strength.

Strength seven.

6.

Strength 6 is the highest strength a Trukk can make with a Ram: 18" divided by 3 is 6. The Reinforced ram does not add anything because a ram is not a death or glory, The front armor is 10 not above, it is not a tank, and you only add 1 for every full 3" of movement.

I don't see the reason for this discussion at all. The speed of a vehicles is determined by the actual movement (BRB pg. 57, 70), so ramming up to 12"/13" is perfectly save for any passengers. Also any vehicle traveling flat out(that is, more than 12" or 13" with RPJ) prevents it's passengers from disembarking in any way(BRB pg. 70), unless explicitly stated otherwise. Ramshackle tells you to disembark, if you can't do that, you stay inside and die.

thunderingjove wrote:If an Ork trukk rams a vehicle, and suffers Kerrunch! (passangers safetly disembark), may the former passangers shoot and assault in the respective turn phase as normal?

As alway's a codex rules take precedent over the rulebook rules. As such, the Orks may always disembark on a vehicle destroyed result(assuming any survive). In the scenario presented above, the Trukk did move and therefore the Orks may not move after the disembark due to Ramshackle, but there is no limitation on assaults(inless said Trukk has an 'ard case and is no longer open topped.

Thaanos wrote:As alway's a codex rules take precedent over the rulebook rules.

No they don't.

As always More specific rules take precedence over less specific rules.

The more specific rules are that Fast transports moving Flat-out cannot embark nor disembark that turn.

The Codex tells you to disembark, the Rulebook tells you that if you moved flat out you cannot disembark.

Where does everybody keep getting this idea that Codex beats rulebook?

Also this has already been said(Thaanos's post and my post) earlier in this same thread.

Thaanos wrote:As alway's a codex rules take precedent over the rulebook rules.

NO.

As always, the more specific rule overrides the more general rule. This often means a codex rule overriding the rulebook, but not always

The orks disembark using the normal BRB Disembark rules; part of those rules are you CANNOT disembark in the same turn from a vehicle that went flat out.

Cannot disembark when moving flatout > must disembark, Orks die.

Please read the thread more carefully before posting, as this isnt the first time in this thread your contention has been thoroughly refuted.

People seem to infer that top speed means the farthest possible measurement the unit can go. This interpretation seems wrong as when you declare your speed it is more in reference to the distance and rules applied to that speed. When ramming you must move at the fastest speed possible, out of "combat speed" and "cruising speed" is..you guessed it...cruising speed. Fast vehicle's top speed is "Flat Our" so they must declare that as their speed. The only hick-up is that passengers of a Fast Transport Vehicle that has declared a "Flat Out" speed may not embark to or disembark from said vehicle. This rule, in my interpretation, is to stop a player from rushing a transport as an emergency rescue or blitz deploy in the same turn. However out of the 3 codex I own, only the Trukk is listed as a Fast Transport Vehicle. The Rhino, Razerback, and Chimera are Tanks and so would not have to worry with this situation. Why does the Trukk have this limitation when is also has the Ramshackle special rule blatantly contradicting it?

'Ork drivers often miss the thrill of combat and modify their trukks so they can use them as weapons themselves.' Silly 'oomies who fink too much use the normal Ramming rules, while Orks WANT to ram you and take a gamble. I'll explain:

1: Trukk is transporting a unit. It has the reinforced ram which increases frontal armor against Death or Glory!, gains Tank Shock, and may re-roll a failed difficult terrain test. (As far as I know, and all I have are the Ork, SM and IG Codex, Orks are the only race to have a vehicle attachment meant for purposely ramming. The dozer blade only grants the re-roll of a failed difficult terrain test.)
2: A ramming maneuver requires the Trukk to move as fast as possible, which is cruising speed. A fast transport's fastest speed is 'flat out' which is a move of more than 12" up to 18" (so at least 13? and if so why not just say 13-18?). Since the ramming moving vehicle must move at it's top speed, then the 'flat out' speed is chosen and you move 12"-18" in the desired direction.
3A: En route ground units are encountered on the desired path, then the rules for tank shock are applied and then resolved. (The reinforced ram is designed for this in mind for Death or Glory!, so obviously the Trukk is meant to be purposefully rammed and not just some last minute decision. The ork driver started that day hoping to add more blood sprays to his hood!)
3B: En route a vehicle is encountered, the ramming trukk essentially goes into temporary stasis. When the two vehicles hit, the damage is resolved in which distance traveled plays a vital role in determining the extent of the ram. This infers that while the ramming vehicle tries to move at top speed to do the most damage when it reaches the target, it obviously can't reach full momentum (or the full extent of it's declared move of 12"-18") if another vehicle is in the way.
3C: En route a walker is encountered, it is treated like a vehicle but may perform a Death or Glory!. (Man that ram is useful when ramming stuff.)
3D: En route a skimmer is encountered, it is treated like a vehicle but may perform a Dodge
5: If the vehicle which is rammed suffers 'Destroyed-explodes!" then the Trukk continues moving in the declared direction until is has moved 12"-18". (What would be interesting about this is since the rammed vehicle literally explodes into nothing and deadly shrapnel is sent zooming outward, would the Trukk be able to withstand the damage? And if it did, since the remaining wreck is now considered difficult terrain, the trukk would then have to make a test to pass since it must continue the move, correct? (Makes sense as the reinforced ram provides a bonus for this situation.)
6: If the vehicle which is rammed still remains on the field, then the Trukk must halt.

Now to apply the Trukk's Ramshackle special rule in the case of our scenario with regards to Kerrunch!:
1: Trukk is transporting a unit. It has the reinforced ram and declares a ramming maneuver in the movement phase.
2: Per the Tank Shock rule, the Trukk turns in the direction desired and must move at least combat speed but since it is a specialized form of Tank Shock, it must move at the fastest capable speed, so 'Flat Out' in this case.
3: The Trukk moves along the chosen direction and resolves any encounter as stated above.
4: If at any point the Trukk suffers a debilitating hit, it fallows the Ramshackle special rule.
5: The Trukk is destroyed by an encountered ground unit or vehicle, it essentially halts adjacent to that unit until combat is resolved. The Ramshackle result is Kerrunch!.
5A: The Trukk is now a destroyed wreck and the unit fallows the disembark rules. Since the Trukk has moved, the disembarked passengers must deploy 2" from the Trukk and 1" from the enemy unit. The disembarked unit may then shoot like normal but not assault.
5B: If that standard disembarking rules cannot be fallowed then you must take an emergency disembark, so deploy 2" from the hull but you may take no further actions.
5C: If an emergency disembark cannot be made and as the unit must disembark since the vehicle is wrecked then it is destroyed.
6: If the Trukk has moved 12"-18" and then receives the final blow, per the "Flat Out" speed the transported unit may not disembark and is subsequently destroyed.
7: If the Trukk has not moved 12" and is wrecked, then the units may fallow the same guidelines in #5.

This to me seems like a logical way, as well as a unique way for a faction to express it's characteristics in game-play, to resolve the Trukk and ramming. The Trukk has special rules that only would apply when ramming, so to severely puiish the Ork player by destroying the unit outright for taking a natural Ork instinct, seems unnecessary. The Ork player still has to gamble that unit when the trukk hits that tank or that valiant foot soldier holds his ground. A roll of a 1-4 on the Ramshackle table changes how the Trukk resolves movement, either halting and exploding(1-2) or loosing control for a distance (3-4) and then exploding. Only on a roll of 5-6 would the situation in question occur. There is more of a chance of the unit blowing up than being able to ram you and let loose the hard boot of da boyz inside.

Thaanos wrote:

thunderingjove wrote:If an Ork trukk rams a vehicle, and suffers Kerrunch! (passangers safetly disembark), may the former passangers shoot and assault in the respective turn phase as normal?

As alway's a codex rules take precedent over the rulebook rules. As such, the Orks may always disembark on a vehicle destroyed result(assuming any survive). In the scenario presented above, the Trukk did move and therefore the Orks may not move after the disembark due to Ramshackle, but there is no limitation on assaults(inless said Trukk has an 'ard case and is no longer open topped.

The ork codex does not say that you may disembark, no matter what. You can't disembark on top of impassible terrain, enemy or friendly units, or onto the wreck itself, just as you can't disembark when moving flat out. Also Trukks can't get an 'ard case.

As for codex vs BRB, I'll quote yakface on that, because I probably couldn't explain it any better:

yakface wrote:

cgmckenzie wrote:Sorry, poor wording on my choice. When the codex and BRB disagree, the codex is correct because it is dealing with a specific model/unit while the BRB is dealing with the entire game. Generally the codex is specific, BRB is general.

-cgmckenzie

The problem is, that's the incorrect way to approach things because the rulebook can be more specific on any given subject.

For example, Necrons have WBB which allows they can utilize anytime the model would be removed as a casualty. But then in the rulebook for Sweeping Advances it says that the models are removed from play from which, unless specified otherwise, no special rule can save them.


So which takes precedence? The codex? Or the rulebook even though it says that a special rule can specify otherwise?


The answer here is that the rulebook takes clear precedence because it says that no special rule can save the unit and WBB is a special rule. While the sweeping advance rules DO say that a special rule can 'specify otherwise' since the sweeping advance rule is MORE specific, it means that the WBB rule would have to say something like 'WBB can be used anytime the model would be removed as a casualty...including when destroyed by a sweeping advance'.

Specific always overrides general, regardless of where the rules are located.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
ChocorateMirk:
- afaik Dark Eldar also haven an upgrade to allow ramming. All the other transports you mentioned are tanks and may thus ram anyway.
- You never "declare" a speed. You declare a distance(how many inches) when tank shocking, the actual traveled distance decides "combat", "cruising" or "flat-out" speed. There is no way to determine the speed level, other than the ones given on the pages I quoted. As "speed" is interchangeably used for "distance traveled", the top speed for ramming is 18", not 12"-18".
- You would have to test for driving through the crater(happens more often with battlewagons).
- Units disembarking from the Trukk for any reason may assault, as it's open-topped.

Other than that, agree.

Jidmah wrote:

Thaanos wrote:

thunderingjove wrote:If an Ork trukk rams a vehicle, and suffers Kerrunch! (passangers safetly disembark), may the former passangers shoot and assault in the respective turn phase as normal?

As alway's a codex rules take precedent over the rulebook rules. As such, the Orks may always disembark on a vehicle destroyed result(assuming any survive). In the scenario presented above, the Trukk did move and therefore the Orks may not move after the disembark due to Ramshackle, but there is no limitation on assaults(inless said Trukk has an 'ard case and is no longer open topped.

The ork codex does not say that you may disembark, no matter what. You can't disembark on top of impassible terrain, enemy or friendly units, or onto the wreck itself, just as you can't disembark when moving flat out. Also Trukks can't get an 'ard case.

As for codex vs BRB, I'll quote yakface on that, because I probably couldn't explain it any better:

yakface wrote:

cgmckenzie wrote:Sorry, poor wording on my choice. When the codex and BRB disagree, the codex is correct because it is dealing with a specific model/unit while the BRB is dealing with the entire game. Generally the codex is specific, BRB is general.

-cgmckenzie

The problem is, that's the incorrect way to approach things because the rulebook can be more specific on any given subject.

For example, Necrons have WBB which allows they can utilize anytime the model would be removed as a casualty. But then in the rulebook for Sweeping Advances it says that the models are removed from play from which, unless specified otherwise, no special rule can save them.


So which takes precedence? The codex? Or the rulebook even though it says that a special rule can specify otherwise?


The answer here is that the rulebook takes clear precedence because it says that no special rule can save the unit and WBB is a special rule. While the sweeping advance rules DO say that a special rule can 'specify otherwise' since the sweeping advance rule is MORE specific, it means that the WBB rule would have to say something like 'WBB can be used anytime the model would be removed as a casualty...including when destroyed by a sweeping advance'.

Specific always overrides general, regardless of where the rules are located.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
ChocorateMirk:
- afaik Dark Eldar also haven an upgrade to allow ramming. All the other transports you mentioned are tanks and may thus ram anyway.
- You never "declare" a speed. You declare a distance(how many inches) when tank shocking, the actual traveled distance decides "combat", "cruising" or "flat-out" speed. There is no way to determine the speed level, other than the ones given on the pages I quoted. As "speed" is interchangeably used for "distance traveled", the top speed for ramming is 18", not 12"-18".
- You would have to test for driving through the crater(happens more often with battlewagons).
- Units disembarking from the Trukk for any reason may assault, as it's open-topped.

Other than that, agree.

The Ramshackle Special Rule states: If a Trukk suffers a vehicle destroyed or vehicle explodes (I assume they mean destoryed-wrecked and destroyed-wrecked), roll on the Ramshackle table below and apply the result instead of the usual effects. Based on your WBB example, the Codex supersedes the BRB as it clearly states apply the result instead of the usual effects.

-Totally forgot Dark Eldar and I just bought a Raider Ram. As tanks they don't move more than 12" so would never see this situation. I was trying to make a case on how the Trukk's unique traits make it ideal for purposeful ramming, not a last ditch effort.
-No where does it say on pages 69-71 of the BRB a vehicle declaring a ram must move all 18" It says that it must move the fastest speed capable for that type of vehicle, so a Trukk must move 12"-18" to have "reached the fastest speed". I would agree if this were a true Tank Shock, because the unit has to move at combat speed at least, but sense it is a Truklk with a ram which uses the Tank Shock as a basis for infantry, it has very different rules for vehicles, which is the point. With a Trukk you would only declare a ram on a vehicle, against infantry it would be a Tank Shock. It would almost be prudent to state a Ram as a targeted ability against a vehicle much like you declare targets and then measure in the shooting phase. You declare your target and then measure your way to it, resolving combat as it happens.
-That's cool! I like how there can be so many layers.
-Didn't know that as I was only going off what is stated under the Disembarking rule. Do you have a page number for my refernce? I really don't like how specific rules are strewn about in not so obvious places instead of under one location for it all like...say...the disembarking rule!

The Ramshackle Special Rule states: If a Trukk suffers a vehicle destroyed or vehicle explodes (I assume they mean destoryed-wrecked and destroyed-wrecked), roll on the Ramshackle table below and apply the result instead of the usual effects. Based on your WBB example, the Codex supersedes the BRB as it clearly states apply the result instead of the usual effects.

The usual effect is explode/wreck, then disembark. Disembarking or flat-out do not change, as Ramshackle does not include any rules concerning either. Thus, you follow the regular rules. Otherwise you would have no disembarking rules, and could not do anything.

-No where does it say on pages 69-71 of the BRB does it state a vehicle declaring a ram must move all 18" It says that it must move the fastest speed capable for that type of vehicle, so a Trukk must move 12"-18" to have "reached the fastest speed". I would agree if this were a true Tank Shock, because the unit has to move at combat speed at least, but sense it is a ram which uses the Tank Shock as a basis for infantry, it has very different rules for vehicles, which is the point. You would only declare a ram on a vehicle, against infantry it would be a Tank Shock. It would almost be prudent to state a Ram as a targeted ability against a vehicle much like you declare targets and then measure in the shooting phase. You declare your target and then measure your way to it, resolving combat as it happens. Tank Shock rules for infantry and the ram rules for.

"Speed" and "moving distance" is used as the same in the BRB(not to be confused with "combat speed" and "cruising speed"). Best example would be last paragraph of BRB pg. 68 left side and first paragraph on the right side.
"... declare how many inches the vehicle is going to move" "Once the vehicle has been 'aimed' and the speed declared,..."(BRB og.68)
Thus the max speed would be the same as max moving distance.

-Didn't know that as I was only going off what is stated under the Disembarking rule. Do you have a page number for my refernce? I really don't like how specific rules are strewn about in not so obvious places instead of under one location for it all like...say...the disembarking rule!

pg. 70, "Open-topped transport vehicles"

"The Ramshackle Special Rule states: If a Trukk suffers a vehicle destroyed or vehicle explodes (I assume they mean destoryed-wrecked and destroyed-wrecked), roll on the Ramshackle table below and apply the result instead of the usual effects. Based on your WBB example, the Codex supersedes the BRB as it clearly states apply the result instead of the usual effects.
"

You apply the Ramshackle result, which then requires you to Disembark.

There is no special "Disembark" rules given in the Ork Codex, therefore there is no Specific > General conflict: you still disembark using the BRB Rules, and are subject to the BRB restrictions on disembarking.

For the 10th time of posting....

"Q: If a transport vehicle is destroyed in the same turn as it
moved flat out what happens to any embarked models? (p70)
A: They are removed as casualties." BRB FAQ
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1490286a_FAQ_40Krulebook_version1_1.pdf

Please show how the orks are no longer disembarking from a vehicle which has moved flat out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hmm, and for a really unfavorable interpretation.
"A fast vehicle going flat out moves more than 12" and up to 18"." BRB Pg 70
"Move the trukk 3D6..."

Guess what happens if you roll over 12 on Kareen!

As long as you move more than 18", you're save

3x6 is 18; you cannot roll more than 18" for Kareen.

However Speed is entirely dependent on the movement phase so the only way your trukk can Kareen flat out is... well, during a ram in which your trukk is destroyed(or if you happen to be playing in an Apocolypse game and have your own Voidraven dropping a bomb near the Trukk, it then scatters onto the trukk, and the trukk gets a destroyed result).

Yeah, but you add your regular move to that 3d6
You could also scatter onto it with your own big bomb and then roll two sixes.

Obviously Kareen! is not supposed to be factored into movement speed.

Jidmah wrote:Yeah, but you add your regular move to that 3d6

Only if you get destroyed in your own movement Phase.

Jidmah wrote:
You could also scatter onto it with your own big bomb and then roll two sixes.

Wouldn't cause a flat out move: the big bomb is dropped in the shooting phase, the rules for it tell you it is a special attack, but do not tell you to resolve it in the movement phase; Therefore it is a shooting attack resolved in the shooting phase. (look at the void mine for further evidence; as it is specifically dropped in the Movement phase).

The bomb doesn't really say that, there are more than enough people resolving it during the movement phase(not including me). Cross referencing to other codices is kind of moot, the GK should have told us that there is no consistency in wording across codices whatsoever.

@Jimdah: The Bomb issue is a common misinterpretation. "with a Bigg Bomm may make a special attack, even if it had turbo-boosted that turn...." That's absolutly no provision to make this 'attack' in the movement phase. The reason one cross-references in cases like this is one can show what is needed to be able to make an attack in the movement phase.

@jidmah
" "Speed" and "moving distance" is used as the same in the BRB(not to be confused with "combat speed" and "cruising speed"). Best example would be last paragraph of BRB pg. 68 left side and first paragraph on the right side.
"... declare how many inches the vehicle is going to move" "Once the vehicle has been 'aimed' and the speed declared,..."(BRB og.68)
Thus the max speed would be the same as max moving distance. "

Listen dude, the reference you gave doesn't support at all what you're trying to infer. Max Speed and Max Distance are not synonymous and the argument that they are is making this diluted.

Per your reference of Tank Shock on pg 68-top right paragraph:
Once the vehicle has been 'aimed" and THE SPEED DECLARED, move the vehicle straight forward until is comes into contact with an enemy unit or reaches the distance declared.

The declared speed dictates the distance that can be traveled. When a Tank Shock is declared, you must go at least Combat Speed, so move up to 6". If you were to go at cruising speed, then you must go more than 6" and up to 12". The BRB wouldn't have defined the speeds as they are if you were always meant to travel at maximum distance. You have yet to show me where in the rule book, when declaring a Ram the unit MUST move the full 18". A Ram is a SPECIALIZED Tank Shock,which doesn't fallow normal movement rules I might add, and the Trukk must declare it's top speed of 'Flat Out'. Pick the direction, declare your intent to move more then 12" and up to 18" and resolve all combat as encountered.

As much as I love the idea of ramming into the enemy and them jumping out to cause more chaos, the wording for fast moving transports seems to eliminate that possibility unfortunately.

Pg 70 BRB Fast Vehicles-Fast Transport Vehicles:
Passengers may not embark onto or disembark from a fast vehicle that has moved (or is going to move) 'Flat Out' in that movement phase.

Because of the "or is going to move" it sullies the concept that if you haven't traveled 12" you technically aren't at 'Flat Out" speed which lets us get creative. I however still prefer something more lenient, like what I stated in my book a few posts up. It is more fun and provides more character to the specialized rules given to the faction. I think that with my break down nothing is being abused nor gives anyone an unfair advantage and is how I will play it.

ChocorateMirk wrote:@jidmah
" "Speed" and "moving distance" is used as the same in the BRB(not to be confused with "combat speed" and "cruising speed"). Best example would be last paragraph of BRB pg. 68 left side and first paragraph on the right side.
"... declare how many inches the vehicle is going to move" "Once the vehicle has been 'aimed' and the speed declared,..."(BRB og.68)
Thus the max speed would be the same as max moving distance. "

Listen dude, the reference you gave doesn't support at all what you're trying to infer. Max Speed and Max Distance are not synonymous and the argument that they are is making this diluted.

Per your reference of Tank Shock on pg 68-top right paragraph:
Once the vehicle has been 'aimed" and THE SPEED DECLARED, move the vehicle straight forward until is comes into contact with an enemy unit or reaches the distance declared.

Uh, did you read the passage I quoted? I explicitly tells you to declare a number of inches to move in the paragraph before, and then goes on calling it "speed" in the sentence you quoted.