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nosferatu1001 wrote:"The Ramshackle Special Rule states: If a Trukk suffers a vehicle destroyed or vehicle explodes (I assume they mean destoryed-wrecked and destroyed-wrecked), roll on the Ramshackle table below and apply the result instead of the usual effects. Based on your WBB example, the Codex supersedes the BRB as it clearly states apply the result instead of the usual effects.
"

You apply the Ramshackle result, which then requires you to Disembark.

There is no special "Disembark" rules given in the Ork Codex, therefore there is no Specific > General conflict: you still disembark using the BRB Rules, and are subject to the BRB restrictions on disembarking.

For the 10th time of posting....

-------------RAMSHACKLE------------------
If a trukk suffers a vehicle Destroyed! or Vehicle Explodes!(wrecked) result, roll on the Ramshaackle table below and apply the result instead of the usual Effects.If the trukk suffers more then one vechicle Destoryed! or Vehicle Explodes ! result, roll one dice per result on the ramshackle table, but only apply the lowest dice roll.

1-2 Kaboom-- The trukk explodes, catapulting flaming debris and stunned orks in all directions. The trukk is destoryed. all passengers and modles within D6" takes a str 3 hit. Surviving Passengers must disembark and take a pinning Test.

3-4 Kareen-- The shot sends the trukk out of controll. Move the trukk 3d6 as far as possible in a random direction(the Ork Player chooses if he rolls a Hit on the scatter dice). The apply the Kaboom result above. If the Trukk would kareen into enemy models or terrain, stop it 1" away.

5-6 Kerrunch-- Something Vital Gives, but the ork passengers bail out of there vehicle before it falls apart with a noise like a meganob falling down a spiral staircase. [b]The ork passengers take no damage but MUST immediately disembark. The Trukk is then wrecked.



1-2 Under the rules of this special rules. You have to meet these before anything else can happen. If the trukk were to move flat out and then get a vechicle explodes. I would roll on the table of Ramshackle. on a 1or 2 the trukk is gone and all the orks get out. The Rules says they have too. Then the rules says they must take a str 3 hit to all of them. The ones who Live then have to take a Pinning Test. What you are saying is not to worry about what the special rule and meeting the 2 criterias that have to be meet? Those 2 criteria mute the other point you are trying to say.
Also how could you ever take a pinning test if you are not allowed to by another rule. You have to follow the special rule on this.

3-4 on this roll we really break the rules right ? Lets say i move 19" and then the trukk gets blown up. Now i roll 18 on the dice. What you are saying is that this rule only changes how vehicle destoryed or wrecked applies. The how come this trukk could move 37". That would be breaking all the rules. After moving that far you would then have to deal with my first point.

5-6 If you roll a 5 or 6 then you get out with no issues. The rule tells you to Disembark and then the trukk is wrecked.

Sigh

me wrote:There is no special "Disembark" rules given in the Ork Codex, therefore there is no Specific > General conflict: you still disembark using the BRB Rules, and are subject to the BRB restrictions on disembarking.

You have not proved you can disembark (you are told you MUST disembark, but nothing overrides the restriction telling you CANNOT disembark) OR have shown a special disembark rule that ONLY Orks follow.

In short: you still CANNOT disembark, and thuis are destroyed. There is no possible way around this. None. Nada. Nil

Blah. It is how you read it, It says you have too and you are saying I cant but the rule says you have too which overrides the i cannot part, lol Like i said from the start. This will have to FAQ and I think the Codex has been out to long for them to do that.

Also you can not disagree with all the other points or can you?

Page 77 under special rules. it says this.....

As this is just a SUMMARY, if any of the Codexes
include one of these special rules and the rule is
different, the one in the Codex takes precedence
(and this represents how the general special rule
applies to that specific race).



Summary- giving the gist or essence.

Which means there are more then just these special rules but these are used more often. So It is possible for a Special rule to override more then one rule.

jordan23ryan wrote:Blah. It is how you read it, It says you have too and you are saying I cant but the rule says you have too which overrides the i cannot part, lol Like i said from the start. This will have to FAQ and I think the Codex has been out to long for them to do that.


Which means there are more then just these special rules but these are used more often. So It is possible for a Special rule to override more then one rule.

It has been FAQed. Models which cannot disembark are destroyed.

Ramshackled does not place models on the table, it triggers the standard codex rules for disembarking. Nothing changes disembarking limits or impacts. The only rules being superseded are vehicle destruction, not disembarking.

Well, at least you know that Kerrunch keeps them safe. After all, they don't take any damage.

Anvildude wrote:Well, at least you know that Kerrunch keeps them safe. After all, they don't take any damage.

There is no rule mechanic called 'damage'. So there is no way for a rule to say they don't take 'any'. We can assume what damage is... but it isn't in the rulebook to be prevented. How long do they take no damage? Are any orks that disembark via kerrunch immortal now?

Kerruch uses the whole entire disembarking ruleset. And if you move flat out, then models that are forced to disembark are destroyed. Kerrunch forces disembarking.

nkelsch wrote:

jordan23ryan wrote:Blah. It is how you read it, It says you have too and you are saying I cant but the rule says you have too which overrides the i cannot part, lol Like i said from the start. This will have to FAQ and I think the Codex has been out to long for them to do that.


Which means there are more then just these special rules but these are used more often. So It is possible for a Special rule to override more then one rule.

It has been FAQed. Models which cannot disembark are destroyed.

Ramshackled does not place models on the table, it triggers the standard codex rules for disembarking. Nothing changes disembarking limits or impacts. The only rules being superseded are vehicle destruction, not disembarking.

Your right about being FAQ if the vehicle moves Flat out they can not disembark, But then how can you ever take the pinning test if you are not on the ground ? The only way is following the rule which states you have to Disembark after taking the str3 to all and then take the Pinning test ?

jordan23ryan wrote:

Your right about being FAQ if the vehicle moves Flat out they can not disembark, But then how can you ever take the pinning test if you are not on the ground ? The only way is following the rule which states you have to Disembark after taking the str3 to all and then take the Pinning test ?

You disembark, then take the wounds, then take a pinning test. If the unit is destroyed then it stops, it doesn't mean the rule is broken.

What happens if every model in the transported unit is wounded by STR3 and fails a save, no pinning test, does that mean the models can't die because we would be breaking ramshackles 'OMFG you must take a pinning test so they have to live long enough to be placed on the table!!!'

Nothing is being broken and there is no issue. If the unit is destroyed before or during the ramshackle action and they never make it to the pinning test, you are not breaking a rule.

For those of you who say that Ramshackle allows flatout-but-immobilized vehicle passengers to disembark, let me ask you all to speculate: if GW were to post an FAQ on this specific subject, what would it say?

jordan23ryan wrote:Your right about being FAQ if the vehicle moves Flat out they can not disembark, But then how can you ever take the pinning test if you are not on the ground ? The only way is following the rule which states you have to Disembark after taking the str3 to all and then take the Pinning test ?

Ever had an 'ard cased BW with gretchin explode? Chances of all of them dying is really high, and they still would have to take a pinning test, even if the unit is wiped out. Some snipers shoot your nobz dead with pinning weapons, they would have to take a pinning test. Did the universe just break? No, you just don't take pinning tests for dead units, pinning does not magically keep them alive to knock them over. Actually, most dead orks(or any models) have probably "gone to ground" anyways.

thunderingjove wrote:For those of you who say that Ramshackle allows flatout-but-immobilized vehicle passengers to disembark, let me ask you all to speculate: if GW were to post an FAQ on this specific subject, what would it say?

Basically it could say anything. It might even turn into a landraider, to force every ork player to buy one for each of their trukks.

jordan23ryan wrote:Blah. It is how you read it, It says you have too and you are saying I cant but the rule says you have too which overrides the i cannot part, lol

No it does not

Specific rules override general rules, that is how the rules work.

Do you have a rule saying that Orks disembark EVEN IF the vehicle has moved flat out? No? THen that means you cannot disembark when moving flat out.

jordan23ryan wrote:Like i said from the start. This will have to FAQ and I think the Codex has been out to long for them to do that.

No need for an FAQ, you ju7st follow all the rules.

jordan23ryan wrote:Also you can not disagree with all the other points or can you?

Page 77 under special rules. it says this.....

As this is just a SUMMARY, if any of the Codexes
include one of these special rules and the rule is
different, the one in the Codex takes precedence
(and this represents how the general special rule
applies to that specific race).
Summary- giving the gist or essence.

Which means there are more then just these special rules but these are used more often. So It is possible for a Special rule to override more then one rule.

Sigh. This is entirely about a special rule having the same name in both rule book and codexes. For example, smoke launchers. As I asked: please point out where the Ork rule for "disembark" is. They dont have one? Guess that menas they must follow the normal rules for disembark, meaning they CANNOT disembark when moving flat out and so are destroyed.