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The Dark Eldar codex is practically perfect.

Omegus wrote:The Dark Eldar codex is practically perfect.

Agreed. If they had only given Mandrakes a point, it would have been a flawles dex. Still great, but I love the mandrake minis and they deserved to be seen on more tabletops!

Asgeirr Darkwolf wrote:Oh, of course Rune Priests. Other than abysmal passive powers, their shooting's GREAT. Say no to JotWW, I dare you.

Grey hunters are amazing, as are Long Fangs. The most adaptable and therefore best are Wolf Guard, though.

I don't think I'd say they got them "right"...



As to what GW got "right", more than anything I think almost the entirety of the Dark Eldar codex.

Sephyr wrote:

Omegus wrote:The Dark Eldar codex is practically perfect.

Agreed. If they had only given Mandrakes a point, it would have been a flawles dex. Still great, but I love the mandrake minis and they deserved to be seen on more tabletops!

It's funny you should mention that, because initially I was going to qualify the "practically" part with the fact that mandrakes aren't quite as awesome as they deserve to be, but they are adequate enough so I opted against it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asgeirr Darkwolf wrote:Oh, of course Rune Priests. Other than abysmal passive powers, their shooting's GREAT. Say no to JotWW, I dare you.

Grey hunters are amazing, as are Long Fangs. The most adaptable and therefore best are Wolf Guard, though.

I would say that this is what they got the most "wrong" in that codex. Sure, they are powerful options, but the Rune Priests being uber mages flies in the face of the fluff, and both the Grey Hunters and Long Fangs are woefully underpriced.

For guard, I'd say the thing they did, by far, the most correct, is the new advisers.

The old advisers were awful. Because you had to assign them to your SO first, and then to your JOs, and only THEN could you assign them to anything else (and by "anything", I really mean, "certain other things"), if you wanted to do something like have a commissar in an infantry squad, or a priest riding around with some conscripts, it was virtually impossible, much less extremely expensive and bringing several unneeded (or, indeed, unwanted) minis to the table.

By getting rid of the old advisers rule, the old advisers are actually usable now. But that's not all. On top of fixing a few old, broken units, they added new ones on. While the master of ordnance isn't all that much to wow about, the fact that the guard got advisers that allow you to affect the metagame is really great. It turns the CCS into a true nervous system (along with orders) rather than just another guard squad that you have to take.

Before the current guard codex, I only ever took, at most, one adviser, and it was considered very unusual at the time. Now, I never leave home without at LEAST one advisor, and, at my height of advisor love, took as many as 4 (or 8 if you want to count commissars).

Talk about a unit that went from horrible and broken to game-changingly useful, while still not necessary (thus not overpowered).

A++, would buy again.

The Master of Ordnance could certainly be better, and I've heard good arguments that the medic should have been a type of officer rather than an upgrade.

I dunno, you think of rune priests as shamans... it kinda fits. Long fangs work well, not for points, but for what they represent. Wolf guard shine through, too. However, most of the dex is codex SM, so its kinda hard to say on some things...

I feel the Tau codex was done well. The only reason they are under-powered now is that it is out-dated, but that doesn't change the fact that Andy Hoare did a good job.

the concepts that they had for the space wolves works well. it is just that everything is priced wrong.

I like that you have to make you hq's all different. i wish that was continued onto the squads in a limited form as well. (could not have 3 squads exactly the same or something)


The Special combat weapons for thunderwolves should be more points as they are stronger with more attacks (S10 PF with 5 Attacks)

I like all of the options for wolf guard, but all of the Power Armor ones are underpriced by 5 pts for no good reason. termi armor is cheap, but the weapons are quite expensive.

Grey hunters are a little underpriced, and the wolf standard is FAR too good for its points. It should have been limited to the to hit and to wound rolls.

Long Fangs are 15 pts a model but they have a better staline than Grey hunters (who are also 15 pts a model) they are LD9 base so they should cost more


All good ideas that were just not playtested enough to see that they needed to be a few points more.

Well, longs fangs HAVE to take a heavy weapon, so that brings their points up considerable, and brings them down in CC...

All the claw units are horrible overpriced. Grey hunters are a little underpriced for what they do... I just wish I could say the same for CSM.

I would say the Tau in 4th Ed were spot on. I can only hope that their update to current standards will be as good.

Asgeirr Darkwolf wrote:Well, longs fangs HAVE to take a heavy weapon, so that brings their points up considerable, and brings them down in CC...

All the claw units are horrible overpriced. Grey hunters are a little underpriced for what they do... I just wish I could say the same for CSM.

There is nothing considerable about longfangs, they are dirt cheap even after weapons.

Claw units aren't "horribly" overpriced, although they wouldn't be out of control if they were a tad cheaper or had discounted weapons due to WS3 BS3.

Grey Hunters should cost at least as much as regular Space Marines, and the wolf standard should be like 25 points.

Asgeirr Darkwolf wrote:Well, longs fangs HAVE to take a heavy weapon, so that brings their points up considerable, and brings them down in CC...

They're a dedicated heavy weapons unit...even if you had the option not to take the heavy weapon I don't know why you would. They're absurdly cheap for the firepower they bring. Not even IG can bring the same sort of firepower per point that Long Fangs provide, and certainly not with BS4 and T4 3+ sv's. Additionally, being worse in CC doesn't mean much if you aren't supposed to be there. that said, they're still better than other heavy weapon troops in CC as they've still got Counterattack.

All the claw units are horrible overpriced.

Only in relation to Grey hunters really. They're more situational than others, they really need to be aggressive and get off that charge, but otherwise they're not all that bad.

Grey hunters are a little underpriced for what they do... I just wish I could say the same for CSM.

CSM's don't get ATSKNF, Acute Senses and most importantly the gigantic crutch of Counterattack, and pay significantly more points for all of their options. A powerfist/combi-melta Aspiring Champion is 65pts, A Wolf Guard with the same loadout is 43pts, 22pts cheaper. CSM's don't get free flamers or discounted melta/plasma guns or the options for additoinal powerweapons/fists in the unit. They have 1pt higher Ld and some Icon options (most of which are very pricy) in exchange for significantly more expensive options, fewer options, no reroll banners or fightyflippyoutguys (wulfen), no ATSKNF, no Acute Senses, and most importantly of all above everything else, no Counterattack.

GH squads are significantly more capable in addition to being significantly cheaper when compared with CSM's. Currently a CSM squad with a powerweapon and 2 flamers with an icon of chaos glory (to get as close as possible to Ld9 ATSKNF) in a rhino is 235pts. A 9 strong Grey Hunter squad with a flamer plus a pweapon/combiflamer WG in a rhino is 203pts 32pts cheaper. That's ludicrous. I'd have no problems paying the 250pts for a unit like that (e.g. 18ppm for GH's, 28pts for the WG before kit, 15pts for WG pweapon, 5pts for WG combi, 5pts for squad flamer, then standard 35pts for a Rhino) and I don't think the majority of players would find that by any means an unreasonable cost, even a bargain for a mere 15pts over the CSM squad to gain Counterattack.

Asgeirr Darkwolf wrote:Well, longs fangs HAVE to take a heavy weapon, so that brings their points up considerable, and brings them down in CC...

All the claw units are horrible overpriced. Grey hunters are a little underpriced for what they do... I just wish I could say the same for CSM.

Why would you not take as many heavy weapons as possible? So you can have a non-scoring tac squad? Being forced to take an undercosted heavy weapon isn't exactly a drawback. The only minor downside they have is less 'red shirts' than regular Dev squads... but they do have sergeants and you can attach a Wolf Guard to soak up wounds.

Theres a reason every SW list I've seen in the past 1 1/2 years have had 2-3 Long Fang packs. Like Psyfleman Dreads, they're a stupidly good option.

Land Raiders.

You gotta love 'em.

svendrex wrote:the concepts that they had for the space wolves works well. it is just that everything is priced wrong.

I like that you have to make you hq's all different. i wish that was continued onto the squads in a limited form as well. (could not have 3 squads exactly the same or something)


The Special combat weapons for thunderwolves should be more points as they are stronger with more attacks (S10 PF with 5 Attacks)

I like all of the options for wolf guard, but all of the Power Armor ones are underpriced by 5 pts for no good reason. termi armor is cheap, but the weapons are quite expensive.

Grey hunters are a little underpriced, and the wolf standard is FAR too good for its points. It should have been limited to the to hit and to wound rolls.

Long Fangs are 15 pts a model but they have a better staline than Grey hunters (who are also 15 pts a model) they are LD9 base so they should cost more


All good ideas that were just not playtested enough to see that they needed to be a few points more.

Yeah...they are one of those armies that's just TOO good.

Especially JotWW. Pisses me off.


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OOO

Shas'O R'alai.

It is FW, but still, just go to forgeworld.com click on the Tau and look for R'alai (hint: first battlesuit product) and read his rules. He is awesome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/s/comralai.pdf

im2randomghgh wrote:

svendrex wrote:the concepts that they had for the space wolves works well. it is just that everything is priced wrong.

I like that you have to make you hq's all different. i wish that was continued onto the squads in a limited form as well. (could not have 3 squads exactly the same or something)


The Special combat weapons for thunderwolves should be more points as they are stronger with more attacks (S10 PF with 5 Attacks)

I like all of the options for wolf guard, but all of the Power Armor ones are underpriced by 5 pts for no good reason. termi armor is cheap, but the weapons are quite expensive.

Grey hunters are a little underpriced, and the wolf standard is FAR too good for its points. It should have been limited to the to hit and to wound rolls.

Long Fangs are 15 pts a model but they have a better staline than Grey hunters (who are also 15 pts a model) they are LD9 base so they should cost more


All good ideas that were just not playtested enough to see that they needed to be a few points more.

Yeah...they are one of those armies that's just TOO good.

Especially JotWW. Pisses me off.

First off JOTWW isn't actually that good.
Secondly this thread isn't about what you hate in a codex or what codex you dislike. It is about what you DO like and what you think has been done right either rules-wise or fluff-wise.

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

svendrex wrote:the concepts that they had for the space wolves works well. it is just that everything is priced wrong.

I like that you have to make you hq's all different. i wish that was continued onto the squads in a limited form as well. (could not have 3 squads exactly the same or something)


The Special combat weapons for thunderwolves should be more points as they are stronger with more attacks (S10 PF with 5 Attacks)

I like all of the options for wolf guard, but all of the Power Armor ones are underpriced by 5 pts for no good reason. termi armor is cheap, but the weapons are quite expensive.

Grey hunters are a little underpriced, and the wolf standard is FAR too good for its points. It should have been limited to the to hit and to wound rolls.

Long Fangs are 15 pts a model but they have a better staline than Grey hunters (who are also 15 pts a model) they are LD9 base so they should cost more


All good ideas that were just not playtested enough to see that they needed to be a few points more.

Yeah...they are one of those armies that's just TOO good.

Especially JotWW. Pisses me off.

First off JOTWW isn't actually that good.
Secondly this thread isn't about what you hate in a codex or what codex you dislike. It is about what you DO like and what you think has been done right either rules-wise or fluff-wise.

Exactly. I am saying they have been done EXTREMELY well and now I hate seeing them across the table because they demolish.

Well no...
If you feel they are too good then they haven't done it well.

purplefood wrote:Well no...
If you feel they are too good then they haven't done it well.

...too good to beat with my outdated Tau.

Not unbeatable at all=well done.

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:Well no...
If you feel they are too good then they haven't done it well.

...too good to beat with my outdated Tau.

Not unbeatable at all=well done.

Well you should have mentioned that bit...

purplefood wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

purplefood wrote:Well no...
If you feel they are too good then they haven't done it well.

...too good to beat with my outdated Tau.

Not unbeatable at all=well done.

Well you should have mentioned that bit...

...See my avatar? Nuff said.