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If the Pot were legal than maybe some people would actually paint their armies.

purplefood wrote:
I don't know why... it's just what teens do...
.

This is the problem that a lot of people have in regards to this issue*. Until we understand why things are happening in out society then it is impossible to envision a future society, it is amazingly hard for us to in vision proper, radical, critiques of that society. if we don't know WHY teenagers are liable to move to heavier drugs (or at least more liable to do so). We cant really say what effect decriminalisation of those drugs is going to have.

*I'm not trying to single you out here, I'm sure either the majority or a large minority agree with you, it's just easier for me to argue when it's directed at someone.

By which you mean, there are studies that show a mild correlation between use and schizophrenia, barely outside the margin of error for the sample size? You might as well look at the fact that almost every schizophrenic smokes tobacco, and assume that tobacco causes schizophrenia.

Nothing thats smoked is healthy really. Cannabis is more clean...physically. But it does something to the mind over time. That much is obvious from the literature.

Why risk smoking something like that?

if we don't know WHY teenagers are liable to move to heavier drugs

Because people and teenagers who turn to hard drugs, or non-medical drugs, in general are idiots with no self control? Coupled with the fact that they don't really care to think what may happen in the future? There really is no justification beyond 'I wanna do it' in all honesty.

Meh ah well. Its fun to say 'I told ya so' to these people.

Meh teens are confused, they like to try new things because they don't know what they enjoy. Teens also like to rebel on some level, drugs fit being experimental, rebellious and on some level "cool" quite well and thus large amounts of teenagers do them.

I'd agree with that.
And, no worries Kragura i get where you're coming from...

Mr Hyena wrote:

Because people and teenagers who turn to hard drugs, or non-medical drugs, in general are idiots with no self control? Coupled with the fact that they don't really care to think what may happen in the future? There really is no justification beyond 'I wanna do it' in all honesty.

Meh ah well. Its fun to say 'I told ya so' to these people.

I cant think of a single teenager who thinks like that. 3 years ago you were a teenager, did you think like that? if someone gave you the option (free of any pressure) to shoot yourself up with heroin, would you?


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corpsesarefun wrote:Teens also like to rebel on some level, drugs fit being experimental, rebellious and on some level "cool" quite well and thus large amounts of teenagers do them.

And therefore de-legalisation of drugs (all drugs mind you) would decrease drug use. Right?

The slippery slope doesn't exist and most dealers don't sell everything. They're not a mini mart for illegal wares.

I cant think of a single teenager who thinks like that. 3 years ago you were a teenager, did you think like that? if someone gave you the option (free of any pressure) to shoot yourself up with heroin, would you?

No way in hell would I. But I knew and had first hand experience of people who did. None of them were seriously addicted but they took ecstasy and cannabis

I've never seen such pathetic....animals as serious drug addicts. They don't even deserve to be called human.

Kragura wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Kragura wrote:

snapsepaven wrote: Teenagers are going to push the boundries

Why?

Because that's what we do...

Why? why would YOU push the boundaries. why would YOU move on to harder drugs. why would YOU agree do do that.

Ok I'll try to give an explanation.
It's all about identity, it's an awful time really. Adults and the world around you expect you to take responsability, yet they don't take off your leash. This means that teenagers often find themselves in a situation where they think/feel like adults yet they're being treated like children.
Being in the process of finding out, who they are, who they want to be, exploring sexuality and so on. Combined with not being treated as adults and not being able to return to childhood has confused the young mind.
This is why teenagers rebel, when you're not allowed to be an adult but feel as such, you're not going to ask permition to commit your own mistakes, you're simply going to do so on your own since you feel that it's well within in your rights to do so.
You might know that the adults have good reasons not to allow you doing certain things, but you feel like you actually have control and that the adults lag of confidence in you are missplaced.

Now say that your rebelious ways has led you to the doorstep of a dealer, here is one that don't pass judgement on you. He confirms you in your believe that you are responsible enough to handle this. And perhaps that this way more fun and essential harmless white powder, is nothing you can't handle.

Adults protect their teenage children by enforcing rules upon them and gradually removing the leash, and in a world where you feel alone all a dealer has to do is treat you as an equel and thus becomeing a rolemodel.

I know that most teenagers properbly can distinquis right from wrong but all will push the boundries and some will push too much.

And as such you would be for the decriminalisation of drugs right? if it's just rebellion then obviously the right thing to do would be to remove the taboos and remove the mystification surrounding drugs right? move it out of the criminal culture and into the forefront. after all, you said yourself there going to choose either way, why not give them all the information they need to help them make the right choice.

Adults protect their teenage children by enforcing rules upon them and gradually removing the leash, and in a world where you feel alone all a dealer has to do is treat you as an equel and thus becomeing a rolemodel.

This is interesting, do you think that someone who, as you say, feels like an adult should not be treated as one? if so why not? why is it our* duty to define their lives for them. I would say most teenagers know just about as much about the drug world as do adults. and teenagers, like it or not, are not hormone fuelled robots, consistently working towards sex drugs and alcohol. most of them (hell all of them) are free thinking individuals, people, with their own rights and responsibility's. why do you get do say what we do?

* or rather your


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Mr Hyena wrote:I've never seen such pathetic....animals as serious drug addicts. They don't even deserve to be called human.

Why? Why does taking drugs renounce your humanity? Why are they pathetic? Why do you seem to hate them so much?

Kragura wrote:

Mr Hyena wrote:

Because people and teenagers who turn to hard drugs, or non-medical drugs, in general are idiots with no self control? Coupled with the fact that they don't really care to think what may happen in the future? There really is no justification beyond 'I wanna do it' in all honesty.

Meh ah well. Its fun to say 'I told ya so' to these people.

I cant think of a single teenager who thinks like that. 3 years ago you were a teenager, did you think like that? if someone gave you the option (free of any pressure) to shoot yourself up with heroin, would you?


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corpsesarefun wrote:Teens also like to rebel on some level, drugs fit being experimental, rebellious and on some level "cool" quite well and thus large amounts of teenagers do them.

And therefore de-legalisation of drugs (all drugs mind you) would decrease drug use. Right?

Delegalisation? I think you mean legalisation...

Sorry yes your right, legalisation.

Ok this last one and I'm off to bed.

I GET TO SAY SO BECAUSE I'M A BLODDY ADULT!!!

All kidding aside, I really don't get to say anything. I'm not anyones parrent I'm simply voicing a consern I have.
Parrents restrict their children because they want to help them make decision that are good for them. Being an adult doesn't mean that you just get to do what you want, but also that you should take responsibility.
It means that you consider consequences before you make a decision. Most teenagers are ready to make the decision but unpreared to deal with the consequences. Most adults screw this up half the time as well, and therefore we tend to protect those with less experience.
Look at the teenage years as a sort of apprenticeship, you get to make lesser decisions and the adults are there to help you deal with the consequences, a sort of trial and error periode preparing you for a time when the consequences can mean more than a grounding.
This sort of freepass also gives teenagers a responsability to rebel, do alot of stupid gak and suffer the consequences and it will help you to become a responsible adult, as long as you also learn the upside to a good decision.

Now all this responsibility crap brings me to why I don't think that you just can remove the ban on drugs.
While it is true that I would like it to be legal, I just don't see how you can make such a major change and not expect any problems. It would really surprise me if there wasn't any unforseen consequences by doing this.
But if it is to be done I predict that it will come gradually, sort of like how you would raise a teenager , by slowly releasing the leash.

Sorry for any errors, I'm too tired to spell check it now. Good night.

snapsepaven wrote:
This sort of freepass also gives teenagers a responsability to rebel, do alot of stupid gak and suffer the consequences and it will help you to become a responsible adult, as long as you also learn the upside to a good decision.

See this I agree with whole heartedly, but I'm not really sure how banning drugs stops teenagers from using them. I agree with you that most teenagers don't really have the head for consequences most adults do, it's not really something that can be taught. but surely the logical thing to do then be be to decriminalise the drugs, to help people through there addictions. whether it was a learning experience, or a bad choice or the result of some external trauma, what is important is how we deal with it and surly, for all those things, the primary response,rather than exclusion, is compassion.

Mr Hyena wrote:
Why risk smoking something like that?

Because you like it, of course. Living a long life which is free of mental irregularities is not a universal good, you know.

Mr Hyena wrote:
Because people and teenagers who turn to hard drugs, or non-medical drugs, in general are idiots with no self control?

Right, we could already infer that you don't like them, you don't need to flat out say it.

Mr Hyena wrote:
There really is no justification beyond 'I wanna do it' in all honesty.

Since desire is at the root of all justification, I fail to see why that is a problem.

Mr Hyena wrote:
Meh ah well. Its fun to say 'I told ya so' to these people.

But its much more fun to mock self-righteous people on the internet, and in person, really.


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Mr Hyena wrote:
No way in hell would I. But I knew and had first hand experience of people who did. None of them were seriously addicted but they took ecstasy and cannabis

Wait, are you comparing heroin to ecstasy and pot? That's a terrible, terrible mistake.

Mr Hyena wrote:
I've never seen such pathetic....animals as serious drug addicts. They don't even deserve to be called human.

Why? Because they do something you don't like, and you don't like being associated with them?

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:The slippery slope doesn't exist and most dealers don't sell everything. They're not a mini mart for illegal wares.

This was exactly what I was thinking while reading this thread.

Most 'drug dealers' i've met only ever sell weed and are usually teenagers themselves who just want some extra cash. I'm sure those big bad terrible drug dealers you talk about really exist but teenagers who do only ever do "light drugs" will probally never meet such people.

As I sit here reading this while smoking some weed and shooting up heroin it has become apparent to me that I don't remember what this thread is about. Well, off to smoke some rocks and down a few blue diamonds.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:The slippery slope doesn't exist and most dealers don't sell everything. They're not a mini mart for illegal wares.

You mean that I have to go to different street corners, alleys, and apartments for the different drugs, the illegal guns, AND the hitman?
Jeez, no wonder this stuff is illegal. It's un-american to not have everything you need in one convient, street corner location!



Now I just thought about 7/11 offering these products.......

Mr Hyena wrote:

I've never seen such pathetic....animals as serious drug addicts. They don't even deserve to be called human.

Why? They shouldn't be hated, they should be pitied. That is, if they actually do have a serious addiction that completely destroys their life.

Mr Hyena, I want to loathe your opinion, but those .gif s in your sig make it so hard....

Lord-Loss wrote:

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:The slippery slope doesn't exist and most dealers don't sell everything. They're not a mini mart for illegal wares.

This was exactly what I was thinking while reading this thread.

Most 'drug dealers' i've met only ever sell weed and are usually teenagers themselves who just want some extra cash. I'm sure those big bad terrible drug dealers you talk about really exist but teenagers who do only ever do "light drugs" will probally never meet such people.

Bingo. In some "less legal" months of my life I sold pills. That's what I had access to, and all I dealt with directly. I would set up deals between different people for other things then quote them extra and the dealers would give me the overflow, but each had their niche. It was actually really, really hard to find cocaine. I tried to score heroin for a guy that was willing to pay on the extreme high end for it and nobody was even willing to deal it. It's not something I'd do again because of how much care you have to put into it and how often you have to look over your shoulder. It's also a little disheartening when you're unsure if your friends are trustworthy and some of them randomly disappear.

@snaps: Quit watching the TV specials. That's not how buying drugs actually works 99% of the time.

Why? Why does taking drugs renounce your humanity? Why are they pathetic? Why do you seem to hate them so much?

Did you grow up in a poor area? I did. Have you seen or read some of the things these...things do, to get money to fuel their addiction? Have you actually walked into a pharmacist and seen these 'zombies' (seriously, thats what they look like. Shrunken face and everything) lining up for their Methadone? Its a horrible situation to be in when your just in for a prescription.

Pot probably wouldn't be as bad as that. That much is true. However I doubt it will take long for Heroin, Ecstasy and similar to become legal as well after.

Wait, are you comparing heroin to ecstasy and pot? That's a terrible, terrible mistake.

Heroin is worse of course. But ecstasy has had deaths before too.

duty to define their lives for them.

Heres the problem: what works for one...likely doesn't work for all.

Why? Because they do something you don't like, and you don't like being associated with them?

Ever had someone in your area die due to a junked-up idiot?

Mr Hyena wrote:
Did you grow up in a poor area? I did. Have you seen or read some of the things these...things do, to get money to fuel their addiction?

No, I've only seen what self-righteous things do in order to fuel their righteousness.

Of course, they aren't human, I throw them into the garbage when they cross my dinner plate. Too stringy, you see.

Mr Hyena wrote:
Have you actually walked into a pharmacist and seen these 'zombies' (seriously, thats what they look like. Shrunken face and everything) lining up for their Methadone? Its a horrible situation to be in when your just in for a prescription.

Oh No! I'm sorry that you were inconvenienced!

Mr Hyena wrote:
Pot probably wouldn't be as bad as that. That much is true. However I doubt it will take long for Heroin, Ecstasy and similar to become legal as well after.

Right, your moral checklist is clearly the rasion behind all legalization decisions.

Mr Hyena wrote:
Heroin is worse of course. But ecstasy has had deaths before too.

So do cars.

Mr Hyena wrote:
Ever had someone in your area die due to a junked-up idiot?

Don't care. People are expendable. I'm waiting for a non-emotional justification.

@snaps: Quit watching the TV specials. That's not how buying drugs actually works 99% of the time.

Look I've been at different dealers in my time, I know how it works. You might have had a different experience but don't kid yourself into thinking that it doesn't happen.
Drugs comes to most countries under extreme contraband, It is not unusual for somebody to get injured or killed in the process of getting it there. It doesn't matter if it's pot or heroine, somebody risked their life getting it to you. Whenever somebody chooses to buy/sell any kind of drug it is a serious stain on that persons morality. Remember that behind every dealer there is a criminal enterprice, and somewhere down the line some scumbag are cashing in on what you see as harmless.

As it is now there are dealers contempt with only dealing in lesser damaging drugs, but if you remove those comodities from the dealer my concern is that maybe the next drug will step up and take the place that pot fills now.

If we're talking about the entire spectre of drugs, it presents the problem of wether people can handle this. On one hand you're saying that you have confidence in people being able to deal with it. On the other hand you're kinda saying that drugs aren't as dangous as they used to be.

I'm not strongly against legalizing, but I don't think that you can just go from illegal to legal in an instance. you need to do as we do now, slowly introduce/confront the public with drugs in order for them to accept the change, or else you risk cultural chock that could backfire in ways that nobody can foresee.

As short as I can boil it down my opinion is: If legalizing only affected me then I would do it today since I know where I stand, but other people have to live with it as well and they might not be prepared for the social changes it would bring. Or something like that.

When my parents were young, back in the seventies, the were very involved in the small time rock scene. My Dad was a drummer (still is) and played in several bands at different times. One of the best bands had a lead guitarist who was both supremely skilled and ahead of his time. Listening to what recorded music I have heard of them, his songs sounded like early Red Hot Chili Peppers stuff, and this was in the late seventies. That man was extremely talented.

Now, some recreational drug usage was common in that scene, at that time. Most people smoked weed recreationally, some took other, 'harder' drugs. This man, the guitarist, smoked weed a lot. Way beyond most peoples recreational habits. He smoked it several times a day, and he was, of course, addicted. As the years past and he entered his mid twenties, the effects of his excessive use began to show. He began to lack focus, unable to concentrate for any length of time, and his memory became more and more unrelaible. Eventually, it got to the point where he would forget what he was doing whilst doing it, he would be unable to remember how a song went half way through and would stop playing. His mind was shot, fried from his addiction to weed. A man who was once an intelligent and extremely skilled musician was now unable to follow through on the simplest of tasks.

Why am I telling this story? There's been talk of weed being 'harmless' and having no addictive qualities. Whilst it is certainly less addictive and less harmful than tobacco, it is still an addictive mind-altering substance that will leave you with brain damage if you don't treat it with the respect it deserves.

I am pro-legalisation of weed, seeing it as no more of a threat that tobacco or alcohol, but those people who are saying that it is 'non-addictive' or that 'people who think that anyone smokes it like tobacco are delusional' need to get their facts straight before they make ignorant claims, born out of their own limited experience. Apologies if this comes across a little hostile, but it makes me angry when people speak about potentially dangerous things that they do not understand.

Mr Hyena wrote:Ever had someone in your area die due to a junked-up idiot?

No, have you? if so, why?

htj wrote:There's been talk of weed being 'harmless' and having no addictive qualities. Whilst it is certainly less addictive and less harmful than tobacco, it is still an addictive mind-altering substance that will leave you with brain damage if you don't treat it with the respect it deserves.

I am pro-legalisation of weed, seeing it as no more of a threat that tobacco or alcohol, but those people who are saying that it is 'non-addictive' or that 'people who think that anyone smokes it like tobacco are delusional' need to get their facts straight before they make ignorant claims, born out of their own limited experience. Apologies if this comes across a little hostile, but it makes me angry when people speak about potentially dangerous things that they do not understand.

Yeah I mostly agree with you, but I really dont think its medically addictive. Its the feeling you get addicted too, you get comfortable in the escape from reality.Its like saying your addicted to COD 4 or something. You really like it, play it alot, but not physically addicted to it. Mental addiction in someways I think is worse, you believe you need it.

But anyway weed is a gateway drug, if you think differently, wait a few years and I can guarantee you will try something harder. But people presume harder drugs would be meth, heroin etc. I never ever touched or went near anything like that, the hardest drug I did would either be mushrooms or LSD. It expands you mind. seriously, fething awesome

Id recommend trying it, its always best at the start, giggling at dogs and stuff, after a few years you start to get more adventurous

Smoke weed everday!
RIP Nat Dogg

I think you're probably right, Toastedandy, it's more of a mental addiction than a physical one. I've never had much fun with weed myself, my body tends to ignore any drugs I put into for the most part, legal or otherwise. But I wouldn't caution anyone off it. It's pretty harmless if used sensibly. Just got annoyed by those who seemed to be dismissing it as having no possible negative effects.

Mr Hyena wrote:

By which you mean, there are studies that show a mild correlation between use and schizophrenia, barely outside the margin of error for the sample size? You might as well look at the fact that almost every schizophrenic smokes tobacco, and assume that tobacco causes schizophrenia.

Nothing thats smoked is healthy really. Cannabis is more clean...physically. But it does something to the mind over time. That much is obvious from the literature.

Do you have citations?

Flood the market with all the seized drugs and taint them with some slow acting poison to allow the market to soak it up before things start happening.

No more drugs problem.


Edit: Clarification.