Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I can't afford a demolisher at the moment, I don't think. I have already purchased and built the hull and turret. The turret weapon is magnetized, so I can go from vanquisher to standard russ to autocannon to whatever the hammer-shaped gun is called (don't have a guard codex! I'm using this for a grot rebellion army) I have built the body of both sponsons and have made the weapons dry-fittable. I accidentally glued the lascannon to the hull mount
For an extra cool look, I put sandbags and extra comms on the turret (do either of those actually work as upgrades?) and are they worth it?

Extra comms don't exist anymore.

As for demolishers, you can either use the eradicator cannon (hammer shaped one) or the basic turret, only without a vanquisher/BT second half.

Mastermind wrote:Extra comms don't exist anymore.

true, but they look great on the tamks! it's okay to have on game wise. i don't think anyone would care.

So, if I could add just a little more nuance to an already complex answer to the OP...

Firstly, the cost for the main gun of a russ compared to its comparable artillery piece is atrocious. Yes, you get AV14 out of the deal, but still, it's somewhat overpriced for what its firepower output is. Sponsons alleviate this. You pay just a little more, but get an overall better points:firepower ratio. The end result is turning something that does little damage, but can move and has AV14 into something that does moderate damage, but can't move, and has AV14.

As such, if what you want the vehicle for is to screen a bunch of chimeras, or do something else to really get the most out of lumbering behemoth, then no sponsons, ever. If you're wanting a static gun platform, then sponsons start making sense (or just take a non-russ option).

Probably the only counter to this, I'd say, is plasma cannons. They give you a lot of points efficiency for plasma cannons, just like other sponsons (take the points cost to put plasma sponsons on a russ and then compare it to adding 2 plasma cannons anywhere else in your army, and you'll see what I mean), but plasma cannons are just SO bad for their points, that I can't really see it being worth it.

The second thing I'd like to add about sponsons is in regard to the multimelta sponsons. Remember that sponsons actually have a really tough time hitting things that are close to the tank. The intended target doesn't have to be too far away before the side of the tank that the sponson is on starts obscuring the target from the viewpoint of the gun. At extremely close range, a sponson can't even fire at a model at all, as it literally can't draw LOS to something touching front armor.

This is a problem with multimeltas. In order to get close enough to shoot them, you're probably getting close enough to give whatever you were shooting at a cover save.

Ailaros wrote:So, if I could add just a little more nuance to an already complex answer to the OP...

Firstly, the cost for the main gun of a russ compared to its comparable artillery piece is atrocious. Yes, you get AV14 out of the deal, but still, it's somewhat overpriced for what its firepower output is. Sponsons alleviate this. You pay just a little more, but get an overall better points:firepower ratio. The end result is turning something that does little damage, but can move and has AV14 into something that does moderate damage, but can't move, and has AV14.

As such, if what you want the vehicle for is to screen a bunch of chimeras, or do something else to really get the most out of lumbering behemoth, then no sponsons, ever. If you're wanting a static gun platform, then sponsons start making sense (or just take a non-russ option).

Probably the only counter to this, I'd say, is plasma cannons. They give you a lot of points efficiency for plasma cannons, just like other sponsons (take the points cost to put plasma sponsons on a russ and then compare it to adding 2 plasma cannons anywhere else in your army, and you'll see what I mean), but plasma cannons are just SO bad for their points, that I can't really see it being worth it.

The second thing I'd like to add about sponsons is in regard to the multimelta sponsons. Remember that sponsons actually have a really tough time hitting things that are close to the tank. The intended target doesn't have to be too far away before the side of the tank that the sponson is on starts obscuring the target from the viewpoint of the gun. At extremely close range, a sponson can't even fire at a model at all, as it literally can't draw LOS to something touching front armor.

This is a problem with multimeltas. In order to get close enough to shoot them, you're probably getting close enough to give whatever you were shooting at a cover save.

I know you won't approve A-man, but that's why i give my Demos Plasma sponsons. they hit 12" before the main gun, and give you teeth if you take a weapon destroyed. the AP2 of both compliment each other.
they've paid off more than they've not been a good deal.

I mean, I can see what you're going for, but 220 points is a pretty big empty bag to fill with bloated corpses of your enemies.

It does remind me of a third thing, though. There is another slight difference between artillery and russes with sponsons, and that is number of shots. Artillery is always stuck shooting only one shot per round (in the case of the manticore D3, but still...). This means that it's more susceptible to the vagaries of luck, but it also means that there are certain targets that artillery will always struggle to handle, namely, things like monstrous creatures and light skimmers and things in cover. With the exception of the hydra, a sponson-bearing russ is the only HS slot that gives you mult-shot capabilities with a HS choice. It's also the ONLY way to get multi-shot AND pie on the same tank, and the only way to get multi-shot and AV14.

This is all pretty fine shades of nuiance, granted, but if what you're looking for is something that a sponson russ of some sort can specifically handle, then it's worth it.

I mean, for example, for the price of 2 hydras with stubbers, you get 1 exterminator with 3x HB's. At this point, the hydras only gain the 2x TLAC and the anti-SMF, which suddenly makes the exterminator seem like a viable option, especially if you don't like squadroning vehicles or giving away an extra KP, or need AV14 for some reason.

Ailaros wrote:I mean, I can see what you're going for, but 220 points is a pretty big empty bag to fill with bloated corpses of your enemies.

It does remind me of a third thing, though. There is another slight difference between artillery and russes with sponsons, and that is number of shots. Artillery is always stuck shooting only one shot per round (in the case of the manticore D3, but still...). This means that it's more susceptible to the vagaries of luck, but it also means that there are certain targets that artillery will always struggle to handle, namely, things like monstrous creatures and light skimmers and things in cover. With the exception of the hydra, a sponson-bearing russ is the only HS slot that gives you mult-shot capabilities with a HS choice. It's also the ONLY way to get multi-shot AND pie on the same tank, and the only way to get multi-shot and AV14.

This is all pretty fine shades of nuiance, granted, but if what you're looking for is something that a sponson russ of some sort can specifically handle, then it's worth it.

I mean, for example, for the price of 2 hydras with stubbers, you get 1 exterminator with 3x HB's. At this point, the hydras only gain the 2x TLAC and the anti-SMF, which suddenly makes the exterminator seem like a viable option, especially if you don't like squadroning vehicles or giving away an extra KP, or need AV14 for some reason.

should have mentioned, 205, HHB.

Once again, my turret weapon is magnetized. I usually fight nids, orks, or other guard armies, but which turret weapon should I use the most? I DO NOT HAVE A DEMOLISHER for the last time!!!!

If those are the armies you always fight, go with the Eradicator. Large blast, wounds infantry on 2+, ignores all the armor on those armies, and ignores cover.

Of course, it's crap if you ever see marines.

killykavekommando wrote:Once again, my turret weapon is magnetized. I usually fight nids, orks, or other guard armies, but which turret weapon should I use the most? I DO NOT HAVE A DEMOLISHER for the last time!!!!

No need to get bent out of shape. People have said that the two turrets to take are:

Main Battle Cannon
Demolisher Cannon

If you don't have a DEMOLISHER, then I suppose you have your answer.

Omegus wrote:On the Battle Tank, I like plasma sponsons and if points allow a lascannon.

That keeps the APs relatively the same in that they shred MEQ. Some will argue the Executioner is better for this, but the big template has its advantages and you save 40 points in the matter.

A dozer blade on a demolisher is indeed a good idea. With its short range, you really don't want it immobilized.

This...not exactly but similar.

I've found a few things in my metagame which may or may not apply to yours:

1) SW Long Fangs spam with 15 Missile Launchers firing at 6 different targets a turn really does a number on AV12. Russes provide the AV14 niche threat against S8 antitank weapons.
2) Many armies out there today feature models with 2+ saves and/or FNP.
3) One template either misses or doesn't do enough damage to force wound allocation to vital components of complex units.
4) With AV14 you end up with a lot of Glances, and not a lot of Pens, and Glances often mean immobilized vehicles and weapon destroyed results. A Demolisher trucking around with its turret blown off, and one hull weapon, isn't a threat. A Demolisher with two plasma cannons and a hull mounted weapon IS still a threat.

For these reasons I have no problem whatsoever dropping the points for a pair of Demolishers with plasma sponsons. You can move 6" and fire the Demolisher cannon and one plasma cannon, or stay stationary and really let them have it.

Eradicators are the ones with a weird recoilless barrel and geometric barrel support, right? If so, then because I put extra work into magnetizing it.

Yay for extra work wasted, since it's probably the worst main weapon choice for the Russ platform.

Gosh! why do the coolest weapons always SUCK!!!!!!!??????!!!!!!

I like plasma on my EXE

Demo runs without

Pun uses HB (if I ever pull it out)

And I like to run my LRBT ether with or with out plasma. Really depends on how I feel.