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Made in gb
Camouflaged Ariadna Scout





Any actual pic of any actual miniature yet?
No? nothing?

Ok, see ya.
They´ve made the worst pomotional themed week in BOW ever. Not even a single miniature!
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Mostly crippled...






United Kingdom

They´ve made the worst pomotional themed week in BOW ever. Not even a single miniature!


We got drawings

I heard they showed some Forgefathers to a few people on their Open Day. The whole game is still in development, as are the models. They wanted to get a head start on making the rules as neat as possible, as well as getting feedback on some concepts before they go into production. I agree it's strange but we should see some models in the next few months.


   
Made in gb
Incorporating Wet-Blending





UK

I think Ronnie said they were saving the models to show off towards the end of this month, so you should see them then. They want to get them painted up first.

If you'd like a description of them, "completely and utterly exactly the same as the concept art in every possible way" is how I would describe them.

They're really good. One of the first kits will be a 5-model resin plastic heavy weapon squad for forgefathers, with 2 of each heavy weapon and 1 leader in the set. These were the models we got to see.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/07/12 21:54:36


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




United States of England

BobbaFett wrote:Any actual pic of any actual miniature yet?
No? nothing?

Ok, see ya.
They´ve made the worst pomotional themed week in BOW ever. Not even a single miniature!


Oh come on, stop being childish. The guys from BoW and Mantic have been completely clear about the "promotional week", and it was never about the miniatures, it was always about the rules and involving the gaming public.

Man down, Man down.... 
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





paradise on the vitae (Florida)

Exactly. All it was used for, and meant for, was to get the game mentioned. Models were seen at the open day, but rumors point to gencon for first releases/teasers. I'll be bringing my camera, so I'll get some close ups on what they have in the cabinets.

1000th post = 7/20/11
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"There's no political issue too intractable for a bunch of angry men with pointed sticks." - Cracked article.

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Made in us
Posts with Authority





South Carolina (upstate) USA

Im keeping an eye on Warpath, but must say so far Im not excited. Being from Mantic, and the fact the first stuff shown is Dwarfs...Im afraid this is just going to be another "Fantasy in the future" game. Humans, Dwarfs, Elfs & maybe some sort of alien. Very over done.

Whats my game?
Warmachine (Cygnar)
10/15mm mecha
Song of Blades & Heroes
Blackwater Gulch
X wing
Open to other games too






 
   
Made in gb
Incorporating Wet-Blending





UK

Reality = 2 companies are currently making Dwarves in Space, hasslefree's grymm, and bob olley's scrunts.

The point isn't to be original here, it's to revisit the concept in a way that doesn't completely suck. GW's biker dwarfs from Mars were stupid. Mantic's space dwarfs are based on Norse mythology.. their background is that they visited Earth and taught humans to forge metals millennia ago, then shared some tech with them later, when they found their way to the stars. The best tech and the blueprints for a lot of the regular tech they keep to themselves to stop the people they sell to from ever getting the upper hand or being able to manufacture their own high-tech weapons. Effectively meaning they have a trade monopoly on warfare in the galaxy. Whoever can pay them enough (payment probably coming in the form of conquered star systems to strip-mine) gets the upper hand in any warfare against anyone who isn't the forgefathers.

Lets not wail on a company for doing some that has been done before when the "something that has been done" hasn't been done in a non-stupidly bad and laughable way by anyone else.

The concept needs to have justice done to it.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2011/07/28 20:36:44


 
   
Made in us
Servoarm Flailing Magos







I assumed Mad4minis core thought was that he's not interested in another 'Fantasy in Space' setting as that niche if very filled. Dwarves are merely one manifestation.

Working on someting you'll either love or hate. Hopefully to be revealed by November.
Play the games that make you happy. 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





South Carolina (upstate) USA

Balance wrote:I assumed Mad4minis core thought was that he's not interested in another 'Fantasy in Space' setting as that niche if very filled. Dwarves are merely one manifestation.


Correct. Regardless of the fluff behind them, dwarves in space are dwarves in space. It doesnt matter how they got there or what they are doing there.

I know its almost impossible to be completely original, but to do something thats already been done so many times just seems silly.

Whats my game?
Warmachine (Cygnar)
10/15mm mecha
Song of Blades & Heroes
Blackwater Gulch
X wing
Open to other games too






 
   
Made in gb
Bounding Assault Marine





London

so mad4minis , what other concept would you have in a game ?
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Texas

Synthetik wrote:so mad4minis , what other concept would you have in a game ?


How about Elephant people in Space!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/29 02:26:32


 
   
Made in gb
Bounding Assault Marine





London

cool , we had rhinos in space (Judoon) , Piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigs in spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace . so jumbolings , makes sense
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





South Carolina (upstate) USA

Synthetik wrote:so mad4minis , what other concept would you have in a game ?


Perhaps something that isnt Dwarves and elves?

Its not that hard...there have been several scifi games without a single dwarf or elf...Urban War, Infinity, & AT-43 just to name a few. The RPG ranks are full of fantasy race free scifi.

It takes 0 creativity to slap space suits on fantasy races. Not only is it a bit played out thanks to the saturation of the gaming market by 40k, but its just lazy. Even worse is that it doesnt seem to be a similar theme to 40k, but almost a complete rip off, an obvious attempt to grab customers by offering a nearly identical product...with its only gimmick being the return of Mantics version of Sqauts.



Now to the question...what concept do I want to see? Something creative. Something that shows some imagination. I think an all alien game would be great...no dwarves, elves or even humans. Take it somewhere completely foreign. No "humans XXX years in the future". No race that is human in everything but name. Think outside the galaxy, so to speak.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/29 12:12:16


Whats my game?
Warmachine (Cygnar)
10/15mm mecha
Song of Blades & Heroes
Blackwater Gulch
X wing
Open to other games too






 
   
Made in gb
Bounding Assault Marine





London

Mad4Minis wrote:
Synthetik wrote:so mad4minis , what other concept would you have in a game ?


Perhaps something that isnt Dwarves and elves?

Its not that hard...there have been several scifi games without a single dwarf or elf...Urban War, Infinity, & AT-43 just to name a few. The RPG ranks are full of fantasy race free scifi.

It takes 0 creativity to slap space suits on fantasy races. Not only is it a bit played out thanks to the saturation of the gaming market by 40k, but its just lazy. Even worse is that it doesnt seem to be a similar theme to 40k, but almost a complete rip off, an obvious attempt to grab customers by offering a nearly identical product...with its only gimmick being the return of Mantics version of Sqauts.



Now to the question...what concept do I want to see? Something creative. Something that shows some imagination. I think an all alien game would be great...no dwarves, elves or even humans. Take it somewhere completely foreign. No "humans XXX years in the future". No race that is human in everything but name. Think outside the galaxy, so to speak.


Thats a good idea , tbh I will play the game I like the rules , but not the 'fantasy races' , maybe jumbolings (I can see a interwebs campaign here to get a race included, maybe the the 8th race).

thanks
   
Made in us
Seven Year War Afficianado






Chicago

Mad4Minis wrote:
It takes 0 creativity to slap space suits on fantasy races. Not only is it a bit played out thanks to the saturation of the gaming market by 40k, but its just lazy. Even worse is that it doesnt seem to be a similar theme to 40k, but almost a complete rip off, an obvious attempt to grab customers by offering a nearly identical product...with its only gimmick being the return of Mantics version of Sqauts.


I think you're almost completely right. It's been done before, it's fantasy in space, and it's definitely riding the GW coat tails...

...but that just makes me want it more!

I do feel that their willingness to embrace Squats right from the start earns them some bonus point in my book, but even if everything else is a retread of a current GW'ism then I don't see anything particularly wrong with catering to folks like my self who came up with GW stuff and enjoy the fantasy in space vibe, but can't stomach the GW pricing or buisness practices. For as much as it copies, there really is a gaping whole in at this moment when it comes to and affordable, plastic-based, fantasy-in-space mass battle game.

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Made in us
Posts with Authority





South Carolina (upstate) USA

Eilif wrote:
Mad4Minis wrote:
It takes 0 creativity to slap space suits on fantasy races. Not only is it a bit played out thanks to the saturation of the gaming market by 40k, but its just lazy. Even worse is that it doesnt seem to be a similar theme to 40k, but almost a complete rip off, an obvious attempt to grab customers by offering a nearly identical product...with its only gimmick being the return of Mantics version of Sqauts.


I think you're almost completely right. It's been done before, it's fantasy in space, and it's definitely riding the GW coat tails...

...but that just makes me want it more!

I do feel that their willingness to embrace Squats right from the start earns them some bonus point in my book, but even if everything else is a retread of a current GW'ism then I don't see anything particularly wrong with catering to folks like my self who came up with GW stuff and enjoy the fantasy in space vibe, but can't stomach the GW pricing or buisness practices. For as much as it copies, there really is a gaping whole in at this moment when it comes to and affordable, plastic-based, fantasy-in-space mass battle game.


Dont get me wrong, I have no problem with them doing it, Im just saying for me its blah. I dont play 40k (though I have a ton of GW minis) and a 40k clone game interests me none. I would like to have seen something fresh, but if the intention is just to pile in some revenue, then they are likely on the right track.

Whats my game?
Warmachine (Cygnar)
10/15mm mecha
Song of Blades & Heroes
Blackwater Gulch
X wing
Open to other games too






 
   
Made in us
Rogue Inquisitor with Xenos Bodyguards





Eastern edge

I just went to Mantic's site and thought the drawings look good, I see that they are basically doing a variation of WH40K
Forgefathers=Squats
Marauders=Orks
http://www.manticgames.com/Sci-fi.html

likely add "Marauders" to my WAAAGH!!! but seriously, it seems that Mantic is just copy-catting to my Point of view.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/07/30 00:58:01


"Your mumblings are awakening the sleeping Dragon, be wary when meddling the affairs of Dragons, for thou art tasty and go good with either ketchup or chocolate. "
Dragons fear nothing, if it acts up, we breath magic fire that turns them into marshmallow peeps. We leaguers only cry rivets!



 
   
Made in gb
Infiltrating Prowler






Yorkshire, UK

Guys, you're missing the point here.

Mantic's (apparent) target customer falls into one of the following two categories:

1. Those looking for cheap proxy models for 40k/WFB (ergo what Mantic makes has to be compatible with GW games - same or similar races, same mini scale, same base sizes, etc)
2. Those who like 40k/WFB but who will not feed the GW beast (because they don't like the rules and/or the cost of minis and/or the way that GW shafts its customers at every opportunity )

Complaining that they are not doing something massively original is missing the point. The original stuff comes later (races 9 and 10 for KoW coming next year, for example).

If you want to see their original sci-fi stuff you'll need to give it a couple of years, but it will come as soon as they get the basics established.

While you sleep, they'll be waiting...

Have you thought about the Axis of Evil pension scheme? 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
[***]







And really, I believe that 'group 1' will be making up the largest part of their sales!

Also, pictures of miniatures, even greens at this point, would be nice...
   
Made in us
Rogue Inquisitor with Xenos Bodyguards





Eastern edge

Okay, i can see that, and true, we should give them time to develop any new races. I just hope the minis match the concept drawings.

I think I fall into group 1 a bit.

I agree, pics of greens or test models would give us more an idea of how things are going.

"Your mumblings are awakening the sleeping Dragon, be wary when meddling the affairs of Dragons, for thou art tasty and go good with either ketchup or chocolate. "
Dragons fear nothing, if it acts up, we breath magic fire that turns them into marshmallow peeps. We leaguers only cry rivets!



 
   
Made in gb
Incorporating Wet-Blending





UK

It's all very well saying "mantic should be orginal and make crystal aliens and space werewolves, in plastic!" or whatever...

..but the reality of the matter is, if they did that, the company would have already gone bankrupt, because no-one would buy that stuff because it's to far from what they know and they can't use it in GW games. They would have spent £30k on the moulds for plastic crystal warriors and then only made about £2k-5k of profit, resulting in massive losses and the closure of the company.

People *like* generic stuff, and it actually sells and I don't see the problem with making it, especially since absolutely no-one else is making really cheap generic fantasy/ sci-fi plastics.

I personally want cheaper alternatives to GW models. I am not paying £1.80 for an orc when I need 100+ orcs. I believe I represent the vast majority of the sort of customer that buys from mantic.. I've personally spent £300+ on their products (over 1000 models!), whereas people who dislike mantic for being too generic have probably spent very little money or no money at all on the company's products. Considering the rate at which mantic is expanding (dwarf king's hold sold out, then the reprint of it sold out a month before it was even due to ship!), and the amount of stuff they're selling and releasing... I'd say they know what they are doing as far as running a business goes, and think that most of the ideas suggested to them on the forums where people have their own ideas about what the company should do instead would result in them ceasing to exist.

Keep in mind that every single company other than GW who has ever produced fantasy or sci-fi plastics in the last decade has gone out of business. Rackham, VOID, Wizkids.. couple of other companies in the early 2000's whose names escape me. It is not an easy market to make money in, you have to drop £30k-£50k upfront just to get a sprue sculpted, tooled and produced. Then you need a hell of a lot of sales to pay that back before you even start beginning to make a profit on it, which is even harder if your profit margins are low due to selling the models at a very low price with not many people having heard of your company in the first place (most people I've met have never heard of mantic, all they know is GW/ warmachine).

Mantic probably made about £150 profit on the models I bought. It need 300 people buying as much bulk as I did, just to fund a single sprue, or about a 1000 people buying a (large) army's worth of models from them. Those kinds of numbers are not easy to hit when you're a new company relying on forums and websites for advertising in a niche market.

I like mantic's rulesets a lot, but also have to accept that no-one else I know is interested in playing them, it's almost entirely fantasy/40k or nothing as far as gaming groups go, other than the odd bit of spartan games/ flames of war/ warmachine players who are largely just as fixed on those particular rulesets as GW players are on theirs. So, warhammer it is, until mantic gets bigger. Which it is.

This message was edited 17 times. Last update was at 2011/08/02 08:44:30


 
   
Made in us
Seven Year War Afficianado






Chicago

It's impossible to deny that Mantic is tossing Warpath on the 40k bandwagon in many respects. The rules are 40k-lite and the mauraders are pretty clear Space Orks.

That said, I think it's too early to really know what direction the miniatures line will take.

Path 1, the Path of the Mauraders.
Mantic could release one 40k-style copy army after another and simply mimic 40k.

Path 2, the path of the ForgeFathers.
Mantic could explore the fantasy-in-space mythos with armies that are different from GW's design asthetics and give games something that -while usable as a 40k proxy- brings something new to the gaming table.

Note that I'm basing option 2 on my opinion that it's not fair to call the ForgeFathers a Squat copy. The design asthetic is extremely different, and GW hasn't made Squats in almost 20 years.

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My Project Log, mostly revolving around custom "Toybashed" terrain.
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Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch





Eilif wrote:Note that I'm basing option 2 on my opinion that it's not fair to call the ForgeFathers a Squat copy. The design asthetic is extremely different, and GW hasn't made Squats in almost 20 years.

I had thought it was pretty clear that Mantic is trying to appeal to the squat-lovers who feel disserved by GW's abandonment of Squats.

text removed by Moderation team. 
   
Made in gb
Incorporating Wet-Blending





UK

How many squat lovers are there really out there these days though?

You have to have been in the hobby for over 20 years to have bought a squat model from a GW store.

I started playing long after they'd been removed, and that was in 2nd edition 40k.

While I have no doubt that there's plenty of people out there who are really interested in seeing squats 2.0, I think it's more of a case of identifying a niche in sci-fi that no-one has done anything half-decent with and trying to make it into something great.

Lets face it, the GW squat models were harley davidson riding loons painted in primary colours, and their background wasn't that interesting either, just a "they like to mine, they hate orks" copy+paste from fantasy. Fan efforts at writing new background have been far superior to anything GW created, especially the last published bit of background for them that stated "tyranids ate them, they are now extinct" in the 4th edition codex.

It would not surprise me if GW brought them back as a tau ally eventually, though.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/08/02 17:24:55


 
   
Made in gb
Infiltrating Prowler






Yorkshire, UK

@scarletsquig - where in the UK are you? If you want a game of KoW and are in/near south yorkshire let me know

While you sleep, they'll be waiting...

Have you thought about the Axis of Evil pension scheme? 
   
Made in us
Seven Year War Afficianado






Chicago

biccat wrote:
Eilif wrote:Note that I'm basing option 2 on my opinion that it's not fair to call the ForgeFathers a Squat copy. The design asthetic is extremely different, and GW hasn't made Squats in almost 20 years.

I had thought it was pretty clear that Mantic is trying to appeal to the squat-lovers who feel disserved by GW's abandonment of Squats.


You're right of course in that they will appeal to any remaining squat lovers. My point was that the near complete unavailability of Squats and stylistic differences between Squats and Forgefathers should defend Forgefathers from being lumped in with the Mauraders as being just another "GW copy".

Scarlet Squig elaborates on this more elequently than I.

Chicago Skirmish Wargames club. Join us for some fast-play, indie gaming in the windy city.
http://chicagoskirmishwargames.com/blog/


My Project Log, mostly revolving around custom "Toybashed" terrain.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/651712.page

Visit the Chicago Valley Railroad!
https://chicagovalleyrailroad.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch





scarletsquig wrote:How many squat lovers are there really out there these days though?

Well, Mantic sees it as a viable market and there is a lot of participation in their threads on the topic, so I suppose the answer would be "enough"

scarletsquig wrote:Lets face it, the GW squat models were harley davidson riding loons painted in primary colours, and their background wasn't that interesting either, just a "they like to mine, they hate orks" copy+paste from fantasy. Fan efforts at writing new background have been far superior to anything GW created, especially the last published bit of background for them that stated "tyranids ate them, they are now extinct" in the 4th edition codex.

The background for SM, Orks, and Chaos didn't start out that exciting either (Chaos and Eldar were decent). Really, it wasn't until 3rd edition where the races were fully fleshed out to their current grimdarkness. There's no doubt that space dwarves could have been developed as much as Orks.

I think the squats died because they didn't fit in the Imperium, not because of any failure in models, rules, or fluff.

text removed by Moderation team. 
   
Made in us
Rogue Inquisitor with Xenos Bodyguards





Eastern edge

Thne squats died as some recall due to "political" reasons, when GW went big, the guy that made the molds and sculpts wanted a job in the reformatted GW and they parted ways, but he also said in a nutshell "I 'm done playing with you, I'm going home!" (in cartman voice.

"Your mumblings are awakening the sleeping Dragon, be wary when meddling the affairs of Dragons, for thou art tasty and go good with either ketchup or chocolate. "
Dragons fear nothing, if it acts up, we breath magic fire that turns them into marshmallow peeps. We leaguers only cry rivets!



 
   
Made in gb
Lieutenant Colonel




Hi all.
In short, fantacy minatures converted to a sc-ifi setting, that can also be used in the 'WHFB in Spaaace!' game for kids.Makes good buisness sense.
And Mantic NEED to have high volume sales .

However, making Warpath 'KoW in Spaaace!' is a REALY BAD idea.
It could and should have been a completley NEW game system based on modern warfare to allow modern units to interact intuitivley.

Alessio could have done so much better this a '40k lite' rule set!

Interactive game turn mechanic , and seperate weapon stats for each unit would allow more detailed and tactical interactions....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/03 18:36:43


 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Texas

You could always use another system, generic games like stargrunt or something

 
   
 
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