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Seeing tau have a very eastern feel to them, I would say katanas, they already have bonding blades that look like katanas.

I've seen codexes where the tau got a free round of shooting before they got charged in melee, through usage of special abilities or somesuch.

Either way, tau don't use swords, they would use pistols in CC.

All of this Tau melee shenanigans is kinda meh. They're already great at shooting, you're saying to remove their one weakness? If we use the Khorne berzerker example, you are removing the sole purpose of the berzerker. That's not fair to CC armies.

Tau should be very bad in close combat, it's their trademark. Just give them a better system for reserves and the ability to disrupt enemy reserves so those pesky deep strikers don't ruin your day. Suits already have jump shoot jump, which is very good for running from eager close combat guys. Rather, 40k should pull what fantasy does and allow you to hold ground, flee (maybe running away D6 in 40k's case to make it more balanced), or stand and shoot when charged.

There's a Tau player at my FLGS who can smoke any close combat blood angels or whatever no problem, it's all about how you play your list. With all this said, if we buff Tau close combat we should also buff guardsmen close combat and buff shooting of every army in the game. They got S5 guns! Look what they do to any non-space marine! Shudder

Tau hand to hand you say?

juraigamer wrote:
Either way, tau don't use swords, they would use pistols in CC.

but tau dont have pistols. just the battle suit pilots that pop out of the suit when it is destroyed.
i see tau using katanas or katana like blades in CC

Justus wrote:All of this Tau melee shenanigans is kinda meh. They're already great at shooting, you're saying to remove their one weakness? If we use the Khorne berzerker example, you are removing the sole purpose of the berzerker. That's not fair to CC armies.

Tau should be very bad in close combat, it's their trademark. Just give them a better system for reserves and the ability to disrupt enemy reserves so those pesky deep strikers don't ruin your day. Suits already have jump shoot jump, which is very good for running from eager close combat guys. Rather, 40k should pull what fantasy does and allow you to hold ground, flee (maybe running away D6 in 40k's case to make it more balanced), or stand and shoot when charged.

There's a Tau player at my FLGS who can smoke any close combat blood angels or whatever no problem, it's all about how you play your list. With all this said, if we buff Tau close combat we should also buff guardsmen close combat and buff shooting of every army in the game. They got S5 guns! Look what they do to any non-space marine! Shudder

I agree Tau should be bad at H2H.

It isn't their only weakness, though. Their shooting is good but not the best. They don't have the best mobility. They have the worst morale and no space magic at all.

The core issue with H2H is that it's basically very easy to get into H2H against Tau, and H2H kills enemy units (of any kind) more than twice as fast as shooting. You can divide a game of 40K into two core functions.

Something that makes it not a snap to get into H2H against Tau would rebalance their weakness.

The Tau shouldn't, I think we're all in agreement, be even mediocre at CC. They should be excellent at ranged, and they should be good at avoiding CC, or good at using technology to make it more difficult for an attacking unit.

I like the idea of messing with peoples reserves/deepstriking, that could really help them out, because wheneveri play my brother and he uses my tau, I just deep strike him and pwn

I changed things up a little. The thread is no longer just about just hand to hand. I added the idea of tau psykers, but the general idea is how would the tau do things that the tau don't do. Hand to hand, psykers, titans, ect.

Super-heavy tanks, like The Eldar, allied Psykers, ability to avoid or prevent CC but not compete in it.

CadianXV wrote:There are two, albiet questionable, sources that show how the Tau engage in CC. 1: The 4th ed rulebook had the beautiful art pictured below, that clearly shows a Japanese style sword.



2. The licensed videogame 'Fire Warrior' included the same style weapon.

The reason Tau are ineffective in CC IMO, is that these sticks are insufficient to breach power armour, and play a minor role in the Tau way of war.

Also, 1000th post, woop!

That's a bonding knife, ceremonial, not an actual weapon though technically could be used as one.

iproxtaco wrote:Super-heavy tanks, like The Eldar, allied Psykers, ability to avoid or prevent CC but not compete in it.

Avoid CC, you mean like phaseshifting or something like that?

agnosto wrote:

CadianXV wrote:There are two, albiet questionable, sources that show how the Tau engage in CC. 1: The 4th ed rulebook had the beautiful art pictured below, that clearly shows a Japanese style sword.



2. The licensed videogame 'Fire Warrior' included the same style weapon.

The reason Tau are ineffective in CC IMO, is that these sticks are insufficient to breach power armour, and play a minor role in the Tau way of war.

Also, 1000th post, woop!

That's a bonding knife, ceremonial, not an actual weapon though technically could be used as one.

I was waiting for someone to say that, then I would pounce. I thought he was talking about the bonding knife too, but he is actually carrying two blades. One is on his chest is a bonding knife and the other is a sword. The bonding knife is still a knife though. They could stab someone with it?

nomotog wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Super-heavy tanks, like The Eldar, allied Psykers, ability to avoid or prevent CC but not compete in it.

Avoid CC, you mean like phaseshifting or something like that?

Maybe not something as advanced as that, but maybe repulsor shields, some sort of Guardian Drone, flares, there are many possibilities, just something which allows them to avoid being regularly forced into CC.

nomotog wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Super-heavy tanks, like The Eldar, allied Psykers, ability to avoid or prevent CC but not compete in it.

Avoid CC, you mean like phaseshifting or something like that?

Or you know, the ability to fall back without penalty after shooting. Kind of Shoot-Run-Shoot.

agnosto wrote:

CadianXV wrote:There are two, albiet questionable, sources that show how the Tau engage in CC. 1: The 4th ed rulebook had the beautiful art pictured below, that clearly shows a Japanese style sword.



2. The licensed videogame 'Fire Warrior' included the same style weapon.

The reason Tau are ineffective in CC IMO, is that these sticks are insufficient to breach power armour, and play a minor role in the Tau way of war.

Also, 1000th post, woop!

That's a bonding knife, ceremonial, not an actual weapon though technically could be used as one.

I was waiting for someone to say that, then I would pounce. I thought he was talking about the bonding knife too, but he is actually carrying two blades. One is on his chest is a bonding knife and the other is a sword. The bonding knife is still a knife though. They could stab someone with it?

Except you're actually wrong. They're BOTH Bonding symbols. He's the leader of a Fire Warrior Team, and as such would have both a kind of 'honor' blade likely gifted to him by Ethereals or a higher ranked Fire Caste official for his period of service alongside his standard bonding knife. Or it may even be leftover from him having been part of a previously bonded group that was killed.

Plus, if you look both of them are still too short to be a 'sword'.

Putting it bluntly: Tau need some very unique rules overhauls to deal with CC specialists.

Unless that thing sticking up from behind is head is a comm-array or some similar bit of tech, that Tau is carrying *three* swords.

Admittedly, I'm, A, Old and, B, wear glasses and, C, the picture isn't that large... but the handles to the two weapons positively identified as swords look just like the thing sticking up from behind its head.

It could be an antenna though... in which case, you can snap them off and then flog someone to death with it, they're rather whippy.

It's an antenna. From my perspective neither blade looks long enough to be a true sword, long knife at the most.

Psienesis wrote:Unless that thing sticking up from behind is head is a comm-array or some similar bit of tech, that Tau is carrying *three* swords.

Admittedly, I'm, A, Old and, B, wear glasses and, C, the picture isn't that large... but the handles to the two weapons positively identified as swords look just like the thing sticking up from behind its head.

It could be an antenna though... in which case, you can snap them off and then flog someone to death with it, they're rather whippy.

Yep it's a comm-array. literally all tau have them (I like to think of them like tau dog tags or tau id cards.)

maybe its a POWER DAGGER! just kidding


Automatically Appended Next Post:
AP1 S50!

If you look closely he has an aerial on his head, a bondage knife on his left chest and another, longer sword, similar to a katana horizontally positioned on the left of his waist.

This fits with the general oriental samurai theme of Tau. (Samurai have a long sword and a short sword.)

Of course it doesn't mean the weapons aren't ceremonial. However ceremonial weapons are still weapons. The modern British army uses ceremonial swords and 18-pounder artillery pieces, even though these went out of use as combat weapons in the mid 20th century.

The bondage knife can be depicted by a decal or painted symbol. It doesn't have to be a real weapon.

That said, of course Tau shouldn't be made good at H2H. That would just make them like most other armies. They need to be made better at avoiding H2H or getting out of H2H when they are in it.

It's only a rule that forces all of a Tau unit to enter H2H because one member of the unit got into base contact with an enemy model. If that rule alone were rescinded for Tau, it would make some improvement to the situation.

Kilkrazy wrote:a bondage knife on his left chest

New special rule:

The Art of Running Away
The Tau are masters of the tactical retreat. Rather than running away screaming, they run away shooting.
Fire Warriors count as I4 for the purpose of initiative tests.

Not too OP, and means they aren't completely screwed if they get in to CC.

Hawk wrote:

juraigamer wrote:
Either way, tau don't use swords, they would use pistols in CC.

but tau dont have pistols. just the battle suit pilots that pop out of the suit when it is destroyed.
i see tau using katanas or katana like blades in CC

They don't have pistols as standard issue wargear. They do have pistols, just not very available.

Tau don't use melee weapons. Tau don't use katanas. All this "like japan" stuff is only a conception thing. At best, drones with dual CCW is what tau would have. They don't and wouldn't give their units besides ethereals melee weapons.

The only thing Tau need is one or two special rules that make it easier to avoid H2H, and/or more difficult for enemies to get into contact.

Any decent kind of H2H ability like circular saw drones would get abused.

juraigamer wrote:

Hawk wrote:

juraigamer wrote:
Either way, tau don't use swords, they would use pistols in CC.

but tau dont have pistols. just the battle suit pilots that pop out of the suit when it is destroyed.
i see tau using katanas or katana like blades in CC

They don't have pistols as standard issue wargear. They do have pistols, just not very available.

Tau don't use melee weapons. Tau don't use katanas. All this "like japan" stuff is only a conception thing. At best, drones with dual CCW is what tau would have. They don't and wouldn't give their units besides ethereals melee weapons.

They don't really give any weapons to ethereals. A honor blade is a weapon, but it's more like a fencing sword and the other melee weapons they have are more like improvised clubs.

I wonder about other castes though, do they use bonding knives or other melee weapons. Do they use them as weapons, or do they use them as symbols?

Kilkrazy wrote:
Any decent kind of H2H ability like circular saw drones would get abused.

You gotta admit that would look cool though.

Maybe I'll ask around my FLGS for a couple of extra ork buzzsaws and put them on a drone. The drone'd be too small though, I think. hmmmm, plasticard a buzzsaw?