Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

We all know that the tau believe hand to hand to be uncivilized. (Hand to hand is the same as melee here.) I get that. but I was thinking about it and it's kind of a plot hole. There are many reasons for the tau to train in hand to hand: literally everyone else uses it (orks and nids most of all and they are the tau's most common enemies.), it's useful to keeping people fit (It would be hard to find a army that dosen't practice some kind of hand to hand for that reason alone.), The Ethereals use sword frights to settle disputes. All this adds up and leads me to this question.

How would the tau fight hand to hand if the tau fought hand to hand?

Edit: I had a lot like this one and I really didn't think it needed it's own new thread. We can use use this thread to talk about tau doing things the tau don't do.

How would the tau look of they had psykers? Would they be their own caste? Would they see them in a mystic light? What weapons would they make for them? And lastly, what kind of psy powers would they train in.

Again, just a hypothetical. Not really about adding psyker tau units and more of a fluffy question.

*Ethereals
Tau have incredibly advanced technology. Why beat someone up, when they are far superior to you in that medium, when you can shoot them from very far away?

Look at the basic, modern military. They're still trained in hand-to-hand despite having predominately ranged weaponry. Even Navy/Airforce are trained in hand-to-hand basics.

As for Tau, they should operate kinda like hellions. Moderately good ranged, a reliable close combat attack, but not geared toward actually hanging around in combat.

For example, they could have a force field that gives them an improved save in close combat, but after it's down (absorb one wound for example) it can't recharge for another full turn. And then just give the suits hit and run.

Another option would be anti-personnel mines and such. Suits could have a 1-time use wargear standard that when used gives them a 3++ in close combat till the end of the turn and shoot 3 small blast templates that scatter D3" from the model's center dealing s3/ap2 shots. Imagnie them hunkering down and shooting grenades in the air that rain high impact shrappnel on all below them.

I'd also not be opposed to giving them a unit of crisis suits 0-1 choice that excel in close combat. Treat them as MC's with a couple attacks and a nice short ranged, high str weapon/flamer.

One option that gets tossed around a lot is flechette drones.

I'm all for them; give assaulting units a nasty surprise, and very Kauyon-ey.

They should perhaps have something, but nothing dedicated, and nothing cheap. The Tau should be amazing at range, and pathetic at close combat, it's a defining thing about them.

Or look at it this way - our special forces are trained in hand to hand combat, and often have effective weapons to incapacitate their enemy in close quaters.

However, if they ever find themselves trying to bayonett charge an 8ft tool ripped and armoured monster with a chainsword the size of their leg... I'm not going to fancy their chances.

It's all about context.

Meatshields are there for a reason...

Having been a tau player for a few years, their close combat(or lack of) is most definitely a nuissance, but I kind of like it like that because that is the reason they have access to weaponry such as the rail cannon or ion cannon or any other ridiculous gun they do.

I think I might have done this wrong. The question is not about adding anti melee stuff to the tau. It's also not how they don't fight in hand to hand. It's a hypothetical. Like if a tau was fighting in melee battle, how would they do it? Would they use weapons still? Bring a gun to a knife fight? Use honor blades? Do tau fight hand to hand as part of training? If they made a melee battlesuit, what would it hold in it's hands?

I don't think there is much info on this, so lets just speculate and do fan cannon.

Probably use some sort of blade, like a Katana, drop their rifles at least.

In Courage and Honor, near the end of the book the Tau try to beat the Ultramarines to death with the butts of their Pulse Carbines.

First, today military may train all members in the very basics of HtH, but they are far from experts. In fact I would say the Tau stat line reflects a current standard US infantry soldier pretty well. I think the Tau should developed one CC weapon or wargear piece for the suits. Or make flechette charges available/standard on suits. But they should never be effective as an assault army.

Now the Kroot on the other hand, could use some kind of boost. At a minimum give them Fleet.

nomotog wrote:I think I might have done this wrong. The question is not about adding anti melee stuff to the tau. It's also not how they don't fight in hand to hand. It's a hypothetical. Like if a tau was fighting in melee battle, how would they do it? Would they use weapons still? Bring a gun to a knife fight? Use honor blades? Do tau fight hand to hand as part of training? If they made a melee battlesuit, what would it hold in it's hands?

I don't think there is much info on this, so lets just speculate and do fan cannon.

If you grant the proposition that Tau decide to fight H2H they would definitely apply their technology.

They would probably use some kind of high tech melee weapon, like an assembly of four rotating blade lawnmowers on each arm of a battlesuit, powered by a plasma reactor, with monomolecular force blades.




Also, drones with a monomolecular circular saw blade running round the rim. Poisoned with genetic algorithm nanobots that reverse engineer evolutionary stages, reverting the victim to a monkey.

Something like that.

As has been mentioned, I'd think the Tau would rely more on things like Fletchette Drones/suits, anti-personel smart mines/snares, and Failsafe Drones (as the unit is charged the drones rush forward and detonate, buying the unit time to fall back safely), and Hit and Run to handle close combat.

As a whole though, I think its rather absurd that 40k armies engage in CC as regularly as they do, fluff wise. You'd think there would be a lot more destruction with a fired close range projectile rather than hacking away with swords and axes and such. Good thing Tau is my main army, I've automatically got their mentality.

The rule Kilkrazy had in his Tau fandex was pretty neat, if a tad too good in my opinion. I can't remember the name though. Was it Evade!Evade! ?

Kilkrazy wrote:
Also, drones with a monomolecular circular saw blade running round the rim.

Something like that.

Dick wrote a short story aboud that. Didn't end well. They made a movie about it as well... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114367/

Lawnmower blades.... I never would have come up with that before. Not in a million years, but that's why I asked the question in the first place. If there ever was a most uncivilized way to fright, lawnmower blades would be it. So ya, I don't think the tau would do something like that.

The codex says that the tau consider melee combat uncivilized, but like most things ,scratch that, all things in WH it's dosen't fit perfectly. The tau actually have a nice selection of melee weapons. Binding knives, honor blades, seals of office (that for some reason count as double weapons. isn't that like beating someone to death with your stapler?), but they are all ceremonial. It might be better to say that the tau consider melee combat to be more like art and less like something to do to kill someone. Maybe they just don't like blood on their clothes and that's not a joke.

They probably have have two general styles. The artistic styles for things like honor blades. They are mostly just for show and pageantry. On the other side they(farsight) might have something more practical to use in actual combat. Something to do with knocking people off balance and then shooting them or running away.

I like combining high tech idea and katana...like a light saber katana with a really nice ap or something like that. a dude with one of those on the back of a bike or something, would be sweet, could just make the blades out of same material that necron gauss weapon tubes are made of.

Tau would deal with melee with pistols, not melee attacks.

You forget there is a reason (beside rationality) for Tau to avoid bloody close combat: Their history ... Mont'au. Tau fear that they might fall back into uncontrolled bloodshed as featured in that civil war bringing the Tau race almost to extinction. That's why they use a gun instead of a knife when confronted with an angry elephant (and tasers are effective as hell in close combat)

nomotog wrote:The Ethereals use sword frights to settle disputes. All this adds up and leads me to this question.

Don't believe this. Source?

Kroothawk wrote:
Don't believe this. Source?

Codex: Tau Empire, page 28, description for Honour Blades.

I don't see Fire Warriors beings graceful enough to use something like a sword. Afterall they dont have rotating ankles.
I'd imagine something like the bayonettes from "Soilder" with Kurt Russel. Only a "powered" version of course.

There are two, albiet questionable, sources that show how the Tau engage in CC. 1: The 4th ed rulebook had the beautiful art pictured below, that clearly shows a Japanese style sword.



2. The licensed videogame 'Fire Warrior' included the same style weapon.

The reason Tau are ineffective in CC IMO, is that these sticks are insufficient to breach power armour, and play a minor role in the Tau way of war.

Also, 1000th post, woop!

In Knights of the Old Republic the player has access to concusoin grenades that just knock people down, i could see Crisis suits having something similar.

Khorne berzerkers charge, Crisis suit activates concution anti-assault divice, Khorne berzerkers knocked down, suit ethier jumps away or blows there heads off with his plasma gun.

Cool, that all together avoids close combat, fiting tau idealogy.

From the few things I know I think tau would prepare traps (like razor wire, holes, trenches) that would kill/slow approaching assailants...

The uncivilized attitude is just them trying to justify their pathetic weakling bodies and lack of mental fortitude.

Vice_Grip wrote:In Knights of the Old Republic the player has access to concusoin grenades that just knock people down, i could see Crisis suits having something similar.

Khorne berzerkers charge, Crisis suit activates concution anti-assault divice, Khorne berzerkers knocked down, suit ethier jumps away or blows there heads off with his plasma gun.

Cool, that all together avoids close combat, fiting tau idealogy.

The tau actually have something like that. They are called photon grenades and they stop charges.

I think they would employ some type of ju-do too use ther opponets sterngth agints them...*austrian accent* to over come there puny bodies

I thought that the photon grenades just eliminate the extra attack gained from assaulting, I may be wrong about that fact, and i think he means to give them some special ability to remove all attacks

I think they would shoot grenades which explode into huge blobb of acidic foam. While the Tau escape behind the cover, the enemy who try to move through it are quickly and messily dissolved.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

iproxtaco wrote:The rule Kilkrazy had in his Tau fandex was pretty neat, if a tad too good in my opinion. I can't remember the name though. Was it Evade!Evade! ?

Yes, Evade!Evade! let the Tau make a leadership roll and move 2d6 inches away from the charging unit, as far as I remember.