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((Side note: I'm just joking around. Please don't take this stuff seriously.))

True, Gandalf did throw a whuppin on the balrog, but I don't recall any spell-casting being involved. I recall some blunt force trauma to its head and shoulders followed by throwing it off a bridge (and falling off himself, of course).

Gandalf wasn't as smart as all that either. (See giant eagle argument.) Also, how long did it take him to figure out that "speak 'friend' and enter" crap? Seriously, everyone who read or watched that figured that out in like two seconds flat.

Gandalf was a mook. He couldn't even throw down on those trolls in The Hobbit. He had to use some shysty ventriloquism nonsense and let the sun do his dirty work for him.

((Okay, now for an actual serious response))

And yes, I don't like Tolkien. I respect him, but don't like his work. I think his writing was bad. I will grant that much of modern fantasy owes a lot to his work, and for that I not only respect the man, but thank him. But keep in mind, just as, say, Gygax ripped off Tolkien, Tolkien was just ripping off various Germanic mythologies.

I respect Freud for all of his work in getting the ball rolling on modern psychology. It doesn't mean that all of his theories were good ones. In point of fact, a bunch of them were terrible.

The Hobbit was tolerable, if you stopped reading after they got to the dragon's cave. The rest of the trilogy wasn't very good.

I recognize that other people have different opinions, which are no less valid than mine. Tolkien's novels are works of art, and as such, are subjective.

So there is nothing wrong with me saying I don't like them.

Kind of puts me in the minority among gamers. Usually when I say that, people start to get all 'quivering neckbeard of fury' on me. If I also point out that I don't like anime, I usually end up having to flee from some Cheeto-fingered Hulk like rage.

((Okay, that last part was me being silly again. In all seriousness though, if you like Tolkien, awesome. I'm glad you get something out of it. I prefer Martin to Tolkien, and there is no reason we can't all be happy with our selections.))

Do we really know the extent of Gandalf's power? I don't recall the trilogy/hobbit or the movies showing much aside from blinding lights, defensive barriers, a massive shockwave, and smoke rings.

Gandalf vs Eldrad:

We've got two immensely powerful beings. Both are incredibly long-lived, mystical non-humans known for their cunning. Both of their main strengths are being the guy behind the scenes, setting major events in motion and using others to reach their ends.

So, the fight wouldn't really be about Gandalf punching Eldrad. Both would retreat to gather allies and plan for the long game. My money is on Gandalf, just because he has much more powerful friends who could bail him out if things go poorly.

Gandalf vs The Emperor:

Easy choice. The Emperor died 10,000 years ago. That means he's already lost by default.

Grakmar wrote:Gandalf vs Eldrad:
My money is on Gandalf, just because he has much more powerful friends who could bail him out if things go poorly.

Gandalf vs The Emperor:

Easy choice. The Emperor died 10,000 years ago. That means he's already lost by default.

a) Well like I said Gandalf is actually one of the demigods of Arda (which is the world in which middle-earth is). Is around the same power level as sauron, though the latter has been empowered by the use of magic rings. That said, Gandalf has also been granted the power of one of the three free rings, the one of fire which is the most "aggressive" (though nothing is ever specifically said about the abilities granted by the rings). Until he was reborn as gandalf the white, he wasn't using his power to avoid attracting the attention of Sauron AND great power in the world of Tolkien tends to corrupt even the most pure beings, so it's always used sparingly.

Eldrad on the other hand is a very powerful (yet mortal) being. His prescience is certainly helpful, hard to judge to what extent, especially if used against a being of great power. That said Gandalf isn't, strictly speaking, mortal. His bodily form can be, perhaps, destroyed, but he can't really die. Hell, even elfs don't die, even when they're killed. So I'd say this one is on Gandalf... It'll take perhaps a lot of time but it's going to take just one lucky shot and Eldrad is dead.

b) The emperor in this form is, of course, incapable of fighting physically... But his psychic power is godly, literally. If, and I have no doubt he can, this psychic power can have tangible effects on the materium, then Gandalf can't win in a direct encounter. OTOH though, Gandalf is capable of bringing elaborate plans to fruition. The structure of the imperium is hard to manipulate, especially regarding the person of the emperor... Still... That said, it's not certain that the physical death of the emperor would mean his defeat... Perhaps he can reincarnate or simply continue living, freely, as a psychic being...

So I'd say this is in favour of the emperor, with the slight chance of a "draw"

Jani wrote:Who would win if Tolkien and Lovecraft matched?

Hmmm....

Lovecraft was a sickly child who had a nervous breakdown at high school, and spent his early 20s writing science fiction.

Tolkien was a trained army signals officer who fought in the Battle of the Somme.

If it was bayonets at dawn my money would be on Tolkien.

Jani wrote:Who would win if Tolkien and Lovecraft matched?

Lovecraft of course. He was a crazy er. He'd just have Cthulu eat middle earth. And not just the "lands," the whole freaking planet. Or even better drive them all mad, like gibbering Barney the Dinosaur Mad.

Who'd win?

Simple.

The audience.

Gandalf because Eldrad is an alien.

Thank you Kilkrazy. My love for Lovecraftian fiction aside, I find that I cannot find a single bit of fault with your literal interpretation of the question posed.

As has been mentioned both Eldrad and Gandalf are more Behind the Scenes types, that said I thinkk Eldrad would win because he would manipulate either the IoM to attack Gandalf or use an Ork Waagh to do the same. The Emperor vs Eldrad would be a hard one, in all honesty at that point I think Eldrad would just try to collapse the Imperium, probably would be easier.

As to the Tolkien being an awful writer, I have to say I do not care for his writing style, very boring, that being said he has bred an awesome generation of authors, e.g. Jim Butcher. However I do disagree that all want to be like him, for instance I found David Gemmells stuff tended more toward medieval stories such as King Arther, Robin Hood, and El Cid.

Eldrad. Easily. Effortlessly. No contest. At all.

Magic in Lord of the Rings is not impressive, it's weak, it is a decidedly low magic voice.

Sauron has been punked by mortals, strong mortals, but mere mortals who would get easily squashed by a Space Marine, let alone Eldrad or the Emperor.

Eldrad easily kills Gandalf, and to even suggest that the Emperor would have any trouble at all fighting Gandalf is ludcrous. The Emperor could destroy Gandalf's physical form and banish him with a wave of his hand. Like he did to Doombreed. Who is far more powerful than Gandalf.

A Space Marine with a bolter would beat Gandalf. Sure, Gandalf would not "die," but his great work is already completed, so he would not get granted a new body after dying, and even then that takes a while.

Gandalf may be a demigod, but that is a title. Fact is, this "demigod" is by all rights a complete chump.

Oh, and Dungeons and Dragons parties fight off threats that make Sauron and his wittle orc army look completely sad. Look up Atropus for example, a moon that eats planets that DnD parties are expected to stop. Or any random Demon Prince really. But I digress.

Gandalf loses hard. Eldrad and the Emperor both are older and operate on a scale far beyond Gandalf's, so he cannot even beat them in the long game.

GeckoOBac wrote:Tossing this here... Gandalf is actually a demi-god whose powers would equal roughly those of sauron if he were to use them in the fullest.

Based on the actual religious theology intended in lord of the rings there is only one GOD and it is not gandalf nor is it sauron.

Sorry but Gandalf just trashed the Emprah, Eldrad, and all of the grimdark with effortless ease.

I though empirical research was the way to proceed, and set my copy of the Lord of the Rings against the various codices.

Despite the overwhelming odds, the latter stood no chance against a well produced publication. The codices, spines broken, lay in lifeless tatters on the floor.

Victory to Gandie.

Eru is the God from Tolkeins fiction. Gandalf is a demi-angel since the Valar are metaphorical Angels and the maiar (Gandalf is a maiar) served the Valar. Not that that really matters though...

I don't remember an Eru,


I remember Manwe and Ulmo.

Manwe was the Creater while Ulmo was one of the Valar. the one who took the greatest interest in Middleearth and the affairs of Men, Elves, and Dwarves.




the Valar were sort of Demi-gods/Arch Angels under Manwe the Creater. then the Maiar were Angels proper.



the Maiar who followed Morgoth became the Spirits of Fire, of which the Balrog was one. Sauron was the chief amoung the Maiar who followed Morgoth.


Gandalf is abit of a mystery as to his exact nature.

2 theories hold the most water,

1: that he was a Maiar spirit and was sent by the Valar to help middle earth(along with the other 4 Wizards)

2: That he was actually Manwe in disguise.


The 1st theory has the most evidence, but the 2 arn't mutually exclusive. Manwe could easily have disguised himself as a Maiar.

I doubt the 2nd theory, but it is still possable.


Frankly, I think Tom Bombidil has something to do with it.

Grey Templar wrote:Frankly, I think Tom Bombidil has something to do with it.

Of course he does! He's Bombidil!

Eru is the God from Tolkeins fiction. Gandalf is a demi-angel since the Valar are metaphorical Angels and the maiar (Gandalf is a maiar) served the Valar. Not that that really matters though...

Lol i don't think many people in this thread have read the similarion

Gandalf and eldrads battle would be:

Gandalf: Epic plan to take him out
Eldrad: saw that one coming bro, avoids it
*Repeat until eldrad dies of age*
Gandalf with the TKO

Emperor would probably destroy him in a open attack, but i think G-dalf could use others as his pawns with a more subtle approach

This is a fight.

In a fight, Eldrad easily crushes Gandalf. This is the guy who made Abaddon look like a loser in melee, arguably the only thing Abaddon is good at.

The Emperor would annihilate Gandalf with a glance.

Kilkrazy wrote:Lovecraft was a sickly child who had a nervous breakdown at high school, and spent his early 20s writing science fiction.

Tolkien was a trained army signals officer who fought in the Battle of the Somme.

If it was bayonets at dawn my money would be on Tolkien.

Alright, I guess I have to defend poor H.P.

He war born approx. 1,5 years before Tolkien, so if they met at early age (like very early), in the same space and time, he would surely kick JRRT's butt big time! 5-year-old can easily beat up 3,5-year-old!

yeah, and then he gets in big trouble for picking on the little kid.


everyone knows that when kids fight, the cutest(and usually youngest) wins when the adults intervene.

But Tolkien was already puffing his pipe at 3 1/2 years old and blew the smoke in Lovecroft's face.
He then proceeded to tap the ashes out on the poor five year old's noggin.

This was the cause of Lovecroft's sickly childhood.

This is a fight.

In a fight, Eldrad easily crushes Gandalf. This is the guy who made Abaddon look like a loser in melee, arguably the only thing Abaddon is good at.

The Emperor would annihilate Gandalf with a glance.

A knife fight? Or all out physic mind exploding magic duals?

If its the latter

I think gandalf could take eldrad, he's pretty boss with a sword and can set people on fire

Emperor would destroy his mind pretty quickly i think

MikZor wrote:A knife fight? Or all out physic mind exploding magic duals?

If its the latter

I think gandalf could take eldrad, he's pretty boss with a sword and can set people on fire

Emperor would destroy his mind pretty quickly i think

Eldrad is much faster. To the extent that Gandalf's head will find itself in the unusual predicament of no longer being on his shoulders before he can swing his sword.

Not to mention the typical Farseer can psychically hurl a battle tank into the air. Which is to say, Eldrad could psychically tear Gandalf in half.

Lighting people on fire is something the average psyker can do, IIRC.

Fair calls all round, i'm unsure if gandalfs barrier spell could repel a sword or not? It held the balrog for a while so maybe, if so, he may last a little bit longer, till the shield gives out. Poor G-dalf

I love both characters though

Not to mention the typical Farseer can psychically hurl a battle tank into the air.

When i read that i was like WOAH!1!eleven! then i read the spells they do have and went really.... support spells
Maybe next codex but thats for another thread

Reading Void_Dragon's post I have just realised that I could stomp on Eldrad and the Emprah and Gandalf simultaneously by simply granting myself uber powers.

Done and done

/discussion

Come on! This is DakkaDakka, we already know that Chuck Norris would stomp all three, at the same time. I am disappoint...

MikZor wrote:Fair calls all round, i'm unsure if gandalfs barrier spell could repel a sword or not? It held the balrog for a while so maybe, if so, he may last a little bit longer, till the shield gives out. Poor G-dalf

I love both characters though

Not to mention the typical Farseer can psychically hurl a battle tank into the air.

When i read that i was like WOAH!1!eleven! then i read the spells they do have and went really.... support spells
Maybe next codex but thats for another thread

Well, maybe, don't really know. As I said, Tolkien magic is decidedly low magic. Though I love the setting and his writing, Gandalf is one of my favorite characters from the series, probably second only to Boromir.


Yeah, I wondered that too. Is odd that Farseers are capable of such psychic might, but do not use it in-game. Well, they do get a lightning attack, S3 if I recall right, but the ability to choose for some tank-tossing would be neat. Although I have never played Eldar, lol.

Reading Void_Dragon's post I have just realised that I could stomp on Eldrad and the Emprah and Gandalf simultaneously by simply granting myself uber powers.

Done and done

/discussion

I can imagine that. I think bart allen could do it

Well, maybe, don't really know. As I said, Tolkien magic is decidedly low magic. Though I love the setting and his writing, Gandalf is one of my favorite characters from the series, probably second only to Boromir.


Yeah, I wondered that too. Is odd that Farseers are capable of such psychic might, but do not use it in-game. Well, they do get a lightning attack, S3 if I recall right, but the ability to choose for some tank-tossing would be neat. Although I have never played Eldar, lol.

It is very low, most he ever does is zap dead some goblins and chase off the winged nazgul with his light beam, i would have liked to read about it more. That being said i'm quite sure he was trying to hide himself from sauron by not using it as much, there's also his repeated characteristic of "OMG power, how will i control myself", such as when offered the ring. Maybe he could be way more powerful? There's just no text confirming it unfotunately

Yup its S3 AP- and can spin tanks, be cooler if they flipped though

bedeporter wrote:Eru is the God from Tolkeins fiction. Gandalf is a demi-angel since the Valar are metaphorical Angels and the maiar (Gandalf is a maiar) served the Valar. Not that that really matters though...

where did you read this?

Smitty0305 wrote:

bedeporter wrote:Eru is the God from Tolkeins fiction. Gandalf is a demi-angel since the Valar are metaphorical Angels and the maiar (Gandalf is a maiar) served the Valar. Not that that really matters though...

where did you read this?

Is in the Silmarillion.