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vyndetta85 wrote:I vote list 2...

Drop Corbs and use a regular priest. The extra points for that EXTREMELY MINIMAL chance of getting that one reroll to work is pointless. Try something like Term armor on the Lib or some more wargear for someone.. Just.. Corbs.. yuck.

Its not so much the reroll I like him for; the 2+FNP is GREAT in many combats, the 2 wounds means he doesn't get plucked by random pw's anymore, and hes str 5 all the time with rending.... however, I'll agree because if I cut him saves me 55 pts, which means I just need to find 25 points to add my 5 man HG squad w/ 4 meltas

Added a 4th list

I see you have added more troops to your lists. And the termies have given way to second furioso. I like the new 4th version best. Its got speed and shooting added to the closecombat ability. Youl need to take drop pod for 4th assault squad to get rid of the packs. Any report on those test games yet?

Vasara wrote:I see you have added more troops to your lists. And the termies have given way to second furioso. I like the new 4th version best. Its got speed and shooting added to the closecombat ability. Youl need to take drop pod for 4th assault squad to get rid of the packs. Any report on those test games yet?

Bunch of reps in the battle rep forum. And the ASM's without packs will ride in the other raven in place of where the termis were.

I figured a second Furioso with ASM squad was just as killy (if not moreso) than 5 TH/SS termis. I get 39 attacks on the charge, 12 of which are power weapons, rerolling hits at str 5... and I5! Thats pretty killy. The furiosos there for backup.

I had enough left over for a dev squad (as I filled pretty much all the rest of my slots) and figure 4 ML's would do SOMETHING as 2 of the 3 scenerios aren't DoW

My mistake about the drop pod. Just checked the codex and it said "CAN select transport" so no pod needed.

I've read most of you reps but I meant battle reports with newest list version for 'Ard Boyz.

Did you consider taking Autolas predator instead of devs?

I'm curious to see how things go without the Terminators. My suspicion is that the Assault Squad will be a bit disappointing out of the Stormraven, and you'll miss the Termies. They seemed to do quite well in the batreps you've posted.

I still think the core needs to be Mephy + Assault Terminators + 2 Furiosos + 2 Stormravens, but I love that you're testing this stuff out so publicly.

MrEconomics wrote:I'm curious to see how things go without the Terminators. My suspicion is that the Assault Squad will be a bit disappointing out of the Stormraven, and you'll miss the Termies. They seemed to do quite well in the batreps you've posted.

I still think the core needs to be Mephy + Assault Terminators + 2 Furiosos + 2 Stormravens, but I love that you're testing this stuff out so publicly.

Issue is with that layout is I CAN'T take any priests... and at 2500 priests are essential to keep my small amount of dudemens alive.

I was thinking it over, and while I agree the loss of my 15 rerolling hit thunderhammers will be missed, the extra attacks will make up for it:

5x TH/SS terms w/ priest and libby = 23 attacks
10x AM's w/ priest and Libby = 37 attacks

both on the charge of course. Plus the AM's will do BETTER against basic things like Orc Boyz mobs, Wyches, other marines, termagaunts/horms, etc. The termis do very well, no denials there, but this list I feel will be more flexible for my meta; I get more scoring units, I took ouit the Baals because the fact I can't scout in 2 of the damn scenerios means I'm paying 115 pts for an AC that will still probably take a turn to get in to position rather than being a threat right off the bat, I get a second furioso, and I get some more AT in my backfield in the form of Dev's. While its a static component to an otherwise very fast force, it'll do some damage and draw some fire away from other things.

Honestly I was gonna run the list in my reps til the scenerios got released. I feel that I can give my opponents a member of my 10 man in the raven rather than a jump guy; this will allow me to still DoA three squads of 10 instead of 2 squads and hiding one in the backfield to babysit. I can reserve the traitor or something and have him run on behind a piece of LoS terrain. Otherwise my basic plan stays unchanged; go forth, run into things, and kill it.


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Vasara wrote:My mistake about the drop pod. Just checked the codex and it said "CAN select transport" so no pod needed.

I've read most of you reps but I meant battle reports with newest list version for 'Ard Boyz.

Did you consider taking Autolas predator instead of devs?

I won't be doing reps with the new list; people have come to expect what I've brought before, so this will be a shot out of left field.

I've considered a pred, but I don't have any. On another note, if I could, I probably would just run 4 jump squads and throw in some EA on my dreads and heavy flamers haha. I'm really just taking the Devs because they're a great threat and cheap; even if they don't fit the "theme"

Just for fun, here's a little Mathhammer comparing 10 Assault Marines + (naked) Priest + Librarian to 5 TH/SS + (naked) Priest + Librarian:

10 man squad gets 25 regular attacks at WS4, 4 regular attacks at WS5, 4 Power Weapon attacks as WS4 and 4 PW attacks at WS5, re-rolling to hit, all at I5 S5.

TH/SS squad gets 4 regular and 4 PW attacks at I5 S5 WS5, and 15 PF attacks at I1 S9, all re-rolling to hit.

Vs. Boyz

10 man squad: 22.31 regular hits, 6.56 PW hits for 14.87 regular wounds, 4.37 PW wounds which is 16.67 dead Boyz. Assuming a mob of 20 Shoota Boyz with PK Nob, we can expect about 1.16 regular wounds and 1.25 PK wounds back, for about 1.44 dead Marines. Hopefully everyone was smart enough to keep the PK away from the ICs. Boyz break, run and either get swept or can't regroup.

TH/SS squad: 3.56 regular hits and 3.56 PW hits at I5 is about 4.35 dead Boyz. Boyz get 30 regular attacks back, which is about 7.5 wounds. Let's assume 1 wound on each IC (which is the same as assuming each IC is in BTB with 2 regular Boyz), which means the Boyz probably don't do anything to anyone due to 2+ armor and FNP. At I1, the THs kill 9.375 Boyz, while the Nob does his 1.25 PK wounds back, which is about .42 dead Terminators. The Boyz aren't Fearless anymore, break and run away, unable to regroup. Between the regular attacks and the Nob, they've roughly killed 1 Terminator.

So, the two squads are more equal against a 20 Boy mob than I would have guessed. Against a 30 Boy mob, I don't think things would be that much different.

Vs. MEQ

Let's assume you charge a 10 man Tactical squad, no CC upgrades.

10 man squad: Still does 14.87 regular wounds, 4.37 PW wounds, which is 9.32 dead Tacs. They do nothing in return most likely, break, and have a 50-50 chance to die to No Retreat! wounds.

TH/SS: Still does 3.56 regular and 3.56 PW hits at I5, which is about 3.16 dead Tacs. Tacs get about 8 attacks back, for 2 wounds which probably won't do anything. THs mulch the rest.

Both squads mulch the opposition here.

Vs. GEQ

10 man squad: About 20 dead at I5.
TH/SS: About 6 dead at I5, about 2.22 dead at I1 per suriving Terminator. You need 72 S3 attacks to kill a Terminator, so you probably don't lose any unless you've charged a Powerblob. That ends up being around 17 dead in total.

The Assault Marines do a little better in general, and are definitely a better bet for charging a Powerblob.

Vs. Wyches

Let's assume you charge 10, with 2 Hydraknives and an Agonizer on the Syren. Wyches are WS4 and I6, right? So they get 21 regular attacks and 3 Agonizer attacks, which is about 1.33 dead Assault Marines, or .42 Terminators.

10 man: You've lost 3 attacks, and kill about 11 Wyches. If the Wyches have FNP, you kill about 7, in which case they run and can't regroup or get run down.
TH/SS: Nobody's died yet. You kill 7.65 Wyches, and they run. They can't regroup.

This is a slight win for the Termies.

So, it looks like the Assault Squad isn't actually better at killing much. I don't think they're better at weathering shooting either, due to the power of the 3++. Since the two squads cost about the same, the ASMs are only better at shooting, scoring and not using an Elites slot.

MrEconomics wrote:Just for fun, here's a little Mathhammer comparing 10 Assault Marines + (naked) Priest + Librarian to 5 TH/SS + (naked) Priest + Librarian:

10 man squad gets 25 regular attacks at WS4, 4 regular attacks at WS5, 4 Power Weapon attacks as WS4 and 4 PW attacks at WS5, re-rolling to hit, all at I5 S5.

TH/SS squad gets 4 regular and 4 PW attacks at I5 S5 WS5, and 15 PF attacks at I1 S9, all re-rolling to hit.

Vs. Boyz

10 man squad: 22.31 regular hits, 6.56 PW hits for 14.87 regular wounds, 4.37 PW wounds which is 16.67 dead Boyz. Assuming a mob of 20 Shoota Boyz with PK Nob, we can expect about 1.16 regular wounds and 1.25 PK wounds back, for about 1.44 dead Marines. Hopefully everyone was smart enough to keep the PK away from the ICs. Boyz break, run and either get swept or can't regroup.

TH/SS squad: 3.56 regular hits and 3.56 PW hits at I5 is about 4.35 dead Boyz. Boyz get 30 regular attacks back, which is about 7.5 wounds. Let's assume 1 wound on each IC (which is the same as assuming each IC is in BTB with 2 regular Boyz), which means the Boyz probably don't do anything to anyone due to 2+ armor and FNP. At I1, the THs kill 9.375 Boyz, while the Nob does his 1.25 PK wounds back, which is about .42 dead Terminators. The Boyz aren't Fearless anymore, break and run away, unable to regroup. Between the regular attacks and the Nob, they've roughly killed 1 Terminator.

So, the two squads are more equal against a 20 Boy mob than I would have guessed. Against a 30 Boy mob, I don't think things would be that much different.

Vs. MEQ

Let's assume you charge a 10 man Tactical squad, no CC upgrades.

10 man squad: Still does 14.87 regular wounds, 4.37 PW wounds, which is 9.32 dead Tacs. They do nothing in return most likely, break, and have a 50-50 chance to die to No Retreat! wounds.

TH/SS: Still does 3.56 regular and 3.56 PW hits at I5, which is about 3.16 dead Tacs. Tacs get about 8 attacks back, for 2 wounds which probably won't do anything. THs mulch the rest.

Both squads mulch the opposition here.

Vs. GEQ

10 man squad: About 20 dead at I5.
TH/SS: About 6 dead at I5, about 2.22 dead at I1 per suriving Terminator. You need 72 S3 attacks to kill a Terminator, so you probably don't lose any unless you've charged a Powerblob. That ends up being around 17 dead in total.

The Assault Marines do a little better in general, and are definitely a better bet for charging a Powerblob.

Vs. Wyches

Let's assume you charge 10, with 2 Hydraknives and an Agonizer on the Syren. Wyches are WS4 and I6, right? So they get 21 regular attacks and 3 Agonizer attacks, which is about 1.33 dead Assault Marines, or .42 Terminators.

10 man: You've lost 3 attacks, and kill about 11 Wyches. If the Wyches have FNP, you kill about 7, in which case they run and can't regroup or get run down.
TH/SS: Nobody's died yet. You kill 7.65 Wyches, and they run. They can't regroup.

This is a slight win for the Termies.

So, it looks like the Assault Squad isn't actually better at killing much. I don't think they're better at weathering shooting either, due to the power of the 3++. Since the two squads cost about the same, the ASMs are only better at shooting, scoring and not using an Elites slot.

Very true! Issue is if I did stay with the terms I'd have 230 points with nothing to do with (cue to the fact I only have 30 jump marines and not 40 lol), and I don't wanna buy some DC just for the DC dread >.>

OK have you thought about honour guard? I run a squad of honour guard with SS and LC s. Put them with my libby and throw them out of a transport assaulting using unleash rage. At init 5 str 5 its 21 str 5 power wpns rerolling to hit, LC mean that the possible 16 LC attacks reroll to wnd. Then you have FNP and 3++ save to back you up from the counter attack. I hit the same time with a furioso and take out a lot of nasty units. Thats at 260 points.

doubled wrote:OK have you thought about honour guard? I run a squad of honour guard with SS and LC s. Put them with my libby and throw them out of a transport assaulting using unleash rage. At init 5 str 5 its 21 str 5 power wpns rerolling to hit, LC mean that the possible 16 LC attacks reroll to wnd. Then you have FNP and 3++ save to back you up from the counter attack. I hit the same time with a furioso and take out a lot of nasty units. Thats at 260 points.

Its a good idea; I just think its soooooo expensive!

It is, but sometimes you have to take something heavy to hit your oppenents army with, and assault marines just never seemed to preform for me against anything with decent saves. Plus 50 points of the HG
is for another sang priest that is independant and can't be picked out of the unit for the bubble of FNP and FC.

doubled wrote:It is, but sometimes you have to take something heavy to hit your oppenents army with, and assault marines just never seemed to preform for me against anything with decent saves. Plus 50 points of the HG
is for another sang priest that is independant and can't be picked out of the unit for the bubble of FNP and FC.

While true, its also 5 less bodies and can't score. Thus is where the furiosos come in; they charge in WITH the AM's to turn the tide in case the dice hate me