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Except that's not true at all. Walkers and Falcons can still put out a very respectable amount of damage without Guide OR Doom. Fortune doesn't really make Walkers survivable either (if your opponent wants an AV10 vehicle dead there isn't really much you can do about it), if there is more than one unit they can just shoot the non Fortuned ones anyway. In the likes of woodbok's Footdar list it would do almost nothing as he has nothing to give those Walkers cover in the first place. More to the point you can get the same effect from two Seers with Guide (and one with Warding I guess) for slightly cheaper, you lose out on some flexibility but importantly aren't tied to a single point (as in your whole army in no longer bunched around Eldrad).

As I said, that footdar doesn't work. But you give the walkers cover via terrain, which there is a lot of.

Smitty0305 wrote:

Eldar own why arnt your banshees in a transport? Starcannons are weird lol. Dark reapers are interesting as well. I think ur list has room for improvement, but grats on the success.

Banshees suck in a transport, they can't assault out of it, so it's pretty pointless. Hiding them behind a squadron of warwalkers is much more effective, especially when you consider the points you save. And starcannons are a terminator's worst nightmare.

Starcannons are WAY overpriced. It would be a decent gun if it was half the price.

And Fire Prisms are actually Terminator's worst nightmare.

Powerguy wrote:Except that's not true at all. Walkers and Falcons can still put out a very respectable amount of damage without Guide OR Doom. Fortune doesn't really make Walkers survivable either (if your opponent wants an AV10 vehicle dead there isn't really much you can do about it), if there is more than one unit they can just shoot the non Fortuned ones anyway. In the likes of woodbok's Footdar list it would do almost nothing as he has nothing to give those Walkers cover in the first place. More to the point you can get the same effect from two Seers with Guide (and one with Warding I guess) for slightly cheaper, you lose out on some flexibility but importantly aren't tied to a single point (as in your whole army in no longer bunched around Eldrad).

fortune prevents 75% of enemy fire. I cant fathom how your diminishing this in any regard. Your opponent...with fortune needs 4x as maby shots.

Walkers should always be given cover from natural stuff or serpents, and they should be fortuned.

Don't hate on it too much but it's gone quite alright so far:

'The 1k S8 Deluxe'

HQ
Farseer - 90
Runes of Warding
Doom

TROOPS
3x10 Guardian Defenders - 375
Warlock
EML

1x`0 Guardian Defenders - 130
Warlock
Embolden
EML

HEAVY SUPPORT
3xFalcon - 405
Pulse Laser
EML

1000

Farseer goes in the embolden squad for re-rolls when casting doom, then open up with either AP4 Plasma missile blasts on infantry or krak for any armour, when they get close hit em with massed shuriken fire. For 1.5k add in WS for the guardians for more TL EML action!

I have a 1500 point list that has won me 1st and 2nd out of the 2 times I played at a tournament at my FLGS. It goes for a combination of Mech and Foot and I feel is quite solid. There has been some debate about the potential inclusion of Eldrad, by dropping the support weapon, a vyper, and reducing an EML to a Scatter Laser, but I like this list more.

Avatar
Farseer, Fortune, Runes of Warding, Singing Spear

6 Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent, TL Shuriken Cannon, Cannon

19 Guardians, Cannon, Warlock, Conceal
10 Storm Guardians, 2 Flamers, Warlock, Destructor
10 Storm Guardians, 2 Flamers, Warlock, Destructor
5 Dire Avengers
5 Dire Avengers

Vyper, EML
Vyper, EML

Falcon, EML, Star Engines
Falcon, EML
D-Cannon

And I'm not gonna lie, the D-Cannon is great. You can fire indirectly and devastate MSU MEQ's. I played a game with this list the other day against Grey Knights, and during the game, it immobilized a land raider, killed 7 Purifiers and 5 standard Grey Knights while safely behind BLOS terrain. I feel like a list like this in your best bet if you actually want to still be competitive and play mech foot hybrid.

Bsent Im surprised your winning games with that list.

My rule is nothing out of a transport.

Thanks for this thread Smitty!

Lots of good stuff , plus, honestly some bad stuff too, imo, but good to see alot of different ways to play eldar!

I agree with you though Smitty, everything Eldar out of a transport, is a dead/dying eldar, in my book. Unless its a walker lol or a fortuned jetcouncil... and even that aint too bullet proof.

I'll post a couple of lists that i have fine-tuned over the years and have done well with.

First list 1

----
List 1: 2K Mech Eldar w/ Jetcouncil

HQ

Farseer - Jetbike, Fortune, Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing (140)
8 Warlocks - Jetbikes, 1 Enhance, 2 Embolden, 2 Destructor (405)

Troops

5 x Dire Avengers - Serpent w/ TL Scatter Laser (175)
5 x Dire Avengers - Serpent w/ TL Scatter Laser (175)
5 x Dire Avengers - Serpent w/ TL Scatter Laser (175)

Elite

5 x Fire Dragons - Serpent w/ TL Scatter Laser (195)
5 x Fire Dragons - Serpent w/ TL Scatter Laser (195)
5 x Fire Dragons - Serpent w/ TL Scatter Laser (195)

Heavy Support

Prism (115)
Prism (115)
Prism (115)

TOTAL: 2000
---

Commentary
This list i have done well with in many slightly different iterations over the last many years. Its quite a 'cookie cutter' mech eldar build in my book. And its - still - quite strong, though later books, mostly SW, Mech IG and GK, have made it less good. It CAN still be hard for opponents - also IG, SW and GK, to deal with both 9 x AV12 AND a jetcouncil, if the list is played by a good general. Tactics are mostly rather straight-forward and in the line of some thinking already put forward a couple of times in this thread. Scatter Lasers torent infantry and go after light armour + side armour (av 10-11 preferably). Dragons hunt the heavy tanks. Prisms also go for heavier tanks in the begining and infantry later. Council as both roles as well - anti tank and anti inf. The good points of the list are great mobility. Good anti infantry from massed scatter lasers, jetcouncil + prisms. And good anti tank from dragons, prisms and council. Long range antitank is lacking though (against Av12+). Deployment wise i often bunch up - on a flank - and focus my army on one part of the opponents army. The army can be brutal, but it can also go down for it really fast.. A LOT more can be said about this army and its tactics vs specific armies, deployment, going first/second, reserve use, scenarios etc... !

Smitty0305 wrote:

Powerguy wrote:Except that's not true at all. Walkers and Falcons can still put out a very respectable amount of damage without Guide OR Doom. Fortune doesn't really make Walkers survivable either (if your opponent wants an AV10 vehicle dead there isn't really much you can do about it), if there is more than one unit they can just shoot the non Fortuned ones anyway. In the likes of woodbok's Footdar list it would do almost nothing as he has nothing to give those Walkers cover in the first place. More to the point you can get the same effect from two Seers with Guide (and one with Warding I guess) for slightly cheaper, you lose out on some flexibility but importantly aren't tied to a single point (as in your whole army in no longer bunched around Eldrad).

fortune prevents 75% of enemy fire. I cant fathom how your diminishing this in any regard. Your opponent...with fortune needs 4x as maby shots.

Walkers should always be given cover from natural stuff or serpents, and they should be fortuned.

If you don't have plenty of skimmers (like the list I used as an example) then its pretty hard to give Walkers cover, they are pretty big and awkward to fit into terrain (say ruins for example) without blocking themselves from firing and you need 2/3 at least 50% covered to get it. Obviously its going to vary widely but I've found that in general you maybe get cover for 1 maybe 2 units if you are really lucky, but this is particularly hard because you can't split all over the board to make use of every scrap of cover and still maintain effectiveness (because you are slow and heavily rely on mutual support + Doom/Guide etc).

Obviously with skimmers you easily get cover for everyone as long as they are all still mobile. However even assuming you do get cover there are still armies which can blast you apart, its harder with Fortune but not impossible. If you have 3 units of Walkers and Fortune 1 and are facing something like say a pretty basic Mech Guard list (which for arguments sake we will says is 6 Chimeras, 4 Hydras, Manticore, 2 Vendettas which is pretty standard) then they can comfortably kill or at the very least seriously cripple the ones without Fortune in one turn and then smash the Fortuned one the turn after. That's not even taking into account anything from the units in the Chimeras which will rumble into range turn 3+, which will likely have meltas and will put enough shots into you that Fortune doesn't make a difference. Its also going to do nothing against any highly mobile or deep striking threats which get an angle to bypass your cover save in the first place (like those Vendettas for instance) and by turn 3 even slower/standard mech units are going to be boxing you in.

I'm not diminishing Fortune at all, its what makes JetCouncils usable and Fortune a Holo Falcon and you get the hardest vehicle to kill in the game. I'm just saying that when you are using AV10 vehicles as the core of your list even cover and Fortune only goes so far . The amount of firepower competitive lists (including other Eldar lists actually) bring to the table means that if your opponent is determined to see that unit die then you aren't going to be able to save it.

So your saying walkers are better when not avoiding 75% of incomming fire?

Smitty0305 wrote:So many good posts guys i really appreciate it.

7serpents 9 walkers is a mean list. Have you ever thought about eldrad?

As Mercer said I did use Eldrad for a while but found that I was only really using him for guiding the walkers and his tricky redeployment rule. The points that I saved by going to 2 guideseers have been used towards putting underslung shuriken cannons on the serpents which have served me really well.

I think Eldrad is awesome but my main use for farseers is guiding walkers and poor old Eldrad can't be in two places at once :(

When I play one of my other friends we play with slightly fluffier (mostly) foot lists and thats when Eldrad and the Avatar get their time to shine.

wtwlf123 wrote:Starcannons are WAY overpriced. It would be a decent gun if it was half the price.

And Fire Prisms are actually Terminator's worst nightmare.

Yes, starcannons are rather expensive, but not as expensive as a fire prism. Or two terminators for that matter.

Farseer, Guide, 2 runes

5 Avengers
5 Avengers
Wave Serpent, scatter laser
5 Avengers
Wave Serpent, scatter laser

5 Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent, scatter laser
5 Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent, scatter laser
5 Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent, scatter laser

Falcon, EML, holo-field
2 Fire Prisms

1500

Starcannons are terribad imo.

Did you not use eldrad for fortune?

Eldar Own wrote:

wtwlf123 wrote:Starcannons are WAY overpriced. It would be a decent gun if it was half the price.

And Fire Prisms are actually Terminator's worst nightmare.

Yes, starcannons are rather expensive, but not as expensive as a fire prism. Or two terminators for that matter.

Except the Prism is good against everything, not just Terminators. And you're not likely to kill 2 Termies with a single Stacannon shot in a single turn anyways. Unless they're Doom/Guided.

I love fire prisms, a str10 twin linked ap1 blast is insanity, not to mention their ability to fry entire squads of marines is very consistent.

Fire prisms are very lackluster IMO , typically one or two get wep destroyed/exploded on my first or second turn, One prism is hardly useful with my scatterdice .... now warwalkers on the other hand are brillant if you run two squads ...

Eyesedragon wrote:Fire prisms are very lackluster IMO , typically one or two get wep destroyed/exploded on my first or second turn, One prism is hardly useful with my scatterdice .... now warwalkers on the other hand are brillant if you run two squads ...

They don't get destroyed if screened well. All of my (Decent) Lists can do effectively.

Oh and smitty, when is the article being done? and pLs don't put my footdar list in.