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I think 3 Chalices is worth a try. You can always go to 4 if you find you need them.

I'd probably go with another VV squad. You'd have 35 left; maybe cut 1 Meltagun from an Honor guard to give each VV squad a second Power Weapon or Lightning Claw.

Another option would be a fourth Assault Squad with 2 Flamers; if you cut 1 Meltagun somewhere you could give them a PW/LC and Meltabombs. Of course, it sounds like you want to try sticking with 30 Assault Marines.

Refer to my comments on Warseer for my opinion on the latest revision. If you take the above poster's advice, your list looks much like it did in post #27 of your Warseer thread, no?

I think this will be it:

Blood Angels - 2000
Librarian - Unleash Rage, Shield of Sanguinius, Jump Pack
Librarian - Unleash Rage, Shield of Sanguinius, Jump Pack
5 Honor Guard - 3 Meltaguns, Jump Packs
5 Honor Guard - 3 Meltaguns, Jump Packs
1 Sanguinary Priest - Jump Pack
10 Assault Marines - 2 Meltaguns, Sergeant with Power Fist
10 Assault Marines - 2 Meltaguns, Sergeant with Power Fist
10 Assault Marines - 2 Meltaguns, Sergeant with Power Fist
10 Assault Marines - 2 Meltaguns, Sergeant with Power Weapon
5 Vanguard Veterans - Sergeant with Power Fist, Jump Packs
5 Vanguard Veterans - Sergeant with Power Fist, Jump Packs
Total - 1995
Models - 63

I'm tempted to throw a combat shield in there cause I'm stylin'.

Give some Sanguinary Guard a try. I think they'd be a nice fit in that list. Add 1 PF and bam, 210 pts. I know the talk is mostly , "Those guys suck" but give them a try, you may like them.

You have 5 points left. Give someone a Meltabomb! The PW Sergeant or the Sanguinary Priest?

Meltabomb on the PW Sergeant would be ideal.

My only concern with this list is landing next to Mephiston and the like. I see a lot of Razorspam lists that have a very nasty HQ hiding with them.

If necessary your VV's can jump on Razorbacks or other vehicles while your Meltaguns shoot at something like Meph or another nasty HQ. Then again, if they have such a nasty HQ and you are worried about being assaulted, consider starting on the table and spreading out. That allows your opponent to shoot you, but if you are careful and judge distances well enough you will likely get to attack first due to your speed.

Deep Strike lists ALWAYS run the risk of getting assaulted by your opponent right after landing. You just have to be willing to accept that and work around it. To be honest, models like Meph are the reason I suggest beefing up your VV's a bit, because both units can assault him and he can only murder one at a time or risk not causing enough damage to matter. With enough power weapons they should cause a few wounds at the very least, and the fists should finish him off.

Wolf 11x wrote:I think this will be it:

Blood Angels - 2000
Librarian - Unleash Rage, Shield of Sanguinius, Jump Pack
Librarian - Unleash Rage, Shield of Sanguinius, Jump Pack
5 Honor Guard - 3 Meltaguns, Jump Packs
5 Honor Guard - 3 Meltaguns, Jump Packs
1 Sanguinary Priest - Jump Pack
10 Assault Marines - 2 Meltaguns, Sergeant with Power Fist
10 Assault Marines - 2 Meltaguns, Sergeant with Power Fist
10 Assault Marines - 2 Meltaguns, Sergeant with Power Fist
10 Assault Marines - 2 Meltaguns, Sergeant with Power Weapon
5 Vanguard Veterans - Sergeant with Power Fist, Jump Packs
5 Vanguard Veterans - Sergeant with Power Fist, Jump Packs
Total - 1995
Models - 63

I'm tempted to throw a combat shield in there cause I'm stylin'.

You don't need more than 3 full AM units.
Drop one of them and add some more Vanguard Vets.

I think that 30 assault marines is probably enough, and i would be looking to get some storm shields and power weapons on the vanguard. At the moment, they won't last long or do much damage, while with a couple of invulnerable saves, you can use them to tie up super characters like mephiston (for an extra turn or so anyway), while you deal with the rest of the army. Looks good otherwise.

grrr

On the subject of VVs, I feel the squad is incredibly overpriced as it is. I've considered dropping them entirely.

Also, how necessary is it that I field 2 Librarians?

I don't know that it's 100% necessary, but it's certainly a good idea at 2k. The more coverage you have for psychic hoods these days, the better, and they can give 2 squads Unleashed Rage.

I actually just won Sevrin Loth on eBay for $37 yesterday. Fantastic model. I made the mistake of unpacking, converting, and assembling my Sanguinor.

Saturday, I had a bit of an eye-opener in a team game we were playing. I was using my Dark Eldar. Lists were:

Dark Eldar - 1000 - Haemonculus w/ Venom Blade, 2x4 Trueborn with 4 Blasters in Venoms, 2x5 Warriors with 1 Blaster in Venoms, 3 Ravagers
Chaos Space Marines - 1000 - Chaos Lord, 4 Terminators, 8 Berserkers in a Rhino, 10 CSM (on foot ), Land Raider
Blood Angels - 2000 - Mephiston, Furioso Librarian, 5 LasPlas Razorbacks, 2 AC/HB Baal Predators, 3 AC/LC Predators

I wrote that BA list.

The game was Seize Ground with Spearhead deployment. I skirted around the edges of the board and chipped away at my opponent's Predators initially. My dice (first new set in 6 years ) were kinder to me than his, so my teammate and I were actually keeping him pinned in his table quarter. My teammate lost his Land Raider on Turn 1 to the very first Lascannon shot of the game. Regardless, he marched up the center of the board towards my opponent. Almost all of my opponent's shooting was directed at my Ravagers. He did take the occasional shot at the random Rhino.

What shocked me was what happened when my teammate actually closed on my opponent. None other than the Lord of Death himself flew out from behind the wall of tanks and proceeded to slaughter 750 points in ~3 turns. First, he chewed through the Lord & Terminators in one round of combat, followed by consolidation into the nearby woods. My teammate fired everything he had and failed to cause a single wound. Mephiston stepped out again, fired his Plasma Pistol, and charged the 7 remaining Berserkers. In retrospect, I'm not entirely sure why my teammate didn't charge. Mephiston cast Unleash Rage. With 6 attacks, only one hit, but the re-roll saw the remaining 5 hit as well. Everything wounded and that left just the Power Fist remaining. Naturally, it failed to hit entirely. After that, the Champion died to his 6 Fearless saves. Again, Mephiston consolidated into the woods. Determined to help, I fired 48 poison shots at Mephiston, causing 2 wounds. He passed 15 out of 17 saves, which is close enough to statistical for my tastes. I wasn't about to waste Darklight shots at him when a solid 6 or so tanks were remaining. My teammate used his one remaining squad to kill a freshly-exposed Razorback squad. Mephiston, again, butchered that entire squad (with some help from the Furioso Librarian). On Turn 7, Mephiston punched the aforementioned Rhino to death.

You may be wondering why I've just written a mini bat-rep. I fear the same fate my happen to my own Assault Marines. Without my own Mephiston-equivalent, I worry just how much of an influence he (and other equivalent HQs) will have on my decisions in-game. I'd hate to have to try and run from a character like that all game. This same CSM player typically runs Abaddon in a Land Raider at 2000. I'd have to get into Melta range to stop the tank, which means Abaddon will kill the squad in his next turn. Another of our players has been running the Swarm Lord a lot recently as well. I wouldn't want to Deep Strike VVs against him.

I recently attended Wargamescon and ran into the following: Tyranids with a Tyrant with 2 Gaurd, Wolves with a Thunderwolf Lord and 5 Thunderwolves with Storm Shields, DoA Blood Angels with one Librarian (sans-Mephiston!), Marines with Lysander, Wolves with just one Rune Priest and an unholy amount of shooting, BA with Mephiston, and an IG player. The last 3-game tournament I went to saw me face GKs with a Librarian / Inquisitor deathstar, Tau, and a BA force with Mephiston as well.

These are just things I've been considering when writing my list.

I was thinking overnight and I was wondering:

Even in DoA lists, why do we take Honor Guard and Vanguard Veterans?

I don't mean to infringe on ToU, so let me know if this post is too detailed, but I think it's important to discuss.

Assault Marine - 18 points each - WS4, A1, LD8
Honor Guard - 33 points each - WS4, A2, LD9, Come with a hidden priest, Locked at 5-man squads, Access to special and close-combat weapons
Vanguard Veterans - 33 points each - WS4, A2, LD9, Can charge when they arrive via Deep Strike, Access to close-combat weapons

For 15 more points per model, you're essentially gaining +1 attack and squad-wide LD9. 15 more points per model. Yes, Honor Guard can take up to 4 Melta per squad to ensure that vicious tank is dead. I rarely, if ever, see an opponent with one specific tank that must die above all else. When really thinking about it though, I can't tell you when 2 Meltas haven't gotten the job done. This is a thought widely echoed by a lot of the community. I've seen a lot of mention of taking Honor Guard with 4 Plasma or 2 Melta / 2 Plasma. For a mere 30 more points, 4 Melta Honor Guard can turn into a 10-man Assault Squad with 2 Meltas and a Power Fist (that can combat squad).

Vanguard Veterans pay an extreme premium to be able to charge when they land. Besides Long Fangs, how useful is this? I don't see a lot of Devastators. DakkaDreads won't penetrate your armor, even if the annoying Psybolt Ammo will mean you don't get FnP. Lootas can't get through your army or FnP. There are a lot of horde-type armies you won't want to use Heroic Intervention against. When you don't DoA with the squad, you're not even using Heroic Intervention. I've seen suggestions of "decking them out." A squad of 5 VVs with a Power Fist is already 175 points. A Storm Shield is 20 per model. Power Weapons and Power Fists run the normal rate for Sergeants. I'd rather just take 5 TH/SS Terminators. Sure, they scatter 2D6". However, they're paying a mere 45 points per model for a 2+/3++.

I must conclude that I don't feel Honor Guard or Vanguard Veterans are worth it. I think these points could be better spent on even more Assault Marines.