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Lynata wrote:

purplefood wrote:That number begins to increase with the more marines you have...
A single marine may be worth 10 guardsmen but a squad of them are worth more than 100 guardsmen...
In universe of course.

Well, if the number increases exponentially, a single Marine would be worth even less - Rogal Dorns original saying was comparing 100 Marines to 1.000 other troops, after all.

I'd rather be inclined to say that it's the other way around, though. Strength in numbers gets stronger the more you escalate, especially given that those 1.000 other troops would likely bring way more tanks and artillery than 100 Marines. Meaning, a single Marine might even be worth 20 Guardsmen, but the more numbers you throw in for both sides, the more the situation will change in favor of the IG.

Just a theory extracted from that single saying, of course. Where exactly is the 12 from, iproxtaco?

Would you really be willing to bet that a guard regiment of 1,000 could beat an SM company of 100?

purplefood wrote:Would you really be willing to bet that a guard regiment of 1,000 could beat an SM company of 100?

I dislike bets.

But seriously, I reckon it depends on the circumstances - terrain, mission profile, intelligence ... Space Marines are elite shock troops meant to deepstrike straight into the heart of an unsuspecting enemy and eviscerate him from within, essentially decapitating the opposition. Would they clash against the front of an IG regiment awaiting their approach, however, I'm inclined to say the Guardsmen might actually have a chance. Albeit at a high cost.

Well i've read in books how Space Marines tore through Chaos IG. I can't imagine it would be much different. They're so squishy!

Very different.

Think so? Wouldn't they be tougher because they are with Chaos?

No, they would be a lot less disciplined, with worse equipment. More like a rambling horde than a well oiled fighting army.

True dat. I know the IG they were talking about just turned Chaos but Good point my friend.

Possibly more driven mind you, determination, possibly shrugging off wounds in their religious zeal. Dangerous enemies, but not quite the neat and ordered firing lines of loyalist guard.

Yea a bunch of unorganized groups of sections of a military isn't that hard to over come with the right planning.


But I can't see any marines now a days just going effe lets rules the Imperium and go and try to purge Terra.

They would prolly have to convince at least like 90 of the Chapters and bring their own IG Regiments from their world. It would be a crazy fight.

Uhhh......I am pretty sure that 1 Space Marine = 300 Imperial Guardsman.

And besides, if Marines are that much useless as being 1 Marine = 10 Guardsman the Imperium wouldn't have any need for them. It is more cheat to train one Stormtrooper who is worth like 10 Guardsman in cannon than one Space Marine.

They would lose in that kind of war...but the damage they could done... Black Templars have 6000+ marines, Space Wolves have fleet, Blood Angels have CC companies, Ultramarines have their own little empire...




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lynata wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Are you implementing that there are more Marines then SoB in the galaxy?

Implying? Of course. Says so in the 2E Codex and "sort-of" in the 5E rulebook (no exact numbers, but the wording was "three major Orders with several thousand Sisters and many smaller ones with perhaps a hundred each" - which is in line with the 2E stuff ... and definitively doesn't sound like more than a million).

I hope that 5e sisters correct that...
I always imagine that IG > SOB > SM

Holy crap Black Templars are that big?!

yep they cheated...many subchapters that hold tight together...

Brother Coa wrote:And besides, if Marines are that much useless as being 1 Marine = 10 Guardsman the Imperium wouldn't have any need for them. It is more cheat to train one Stormtrooper who is worth like 10 Guardsman in cannon than one Space Marine.

It's cheaper to train a Storm Trooper, but they die in droves in the line of duty. Also, Marines are still able to project even more force onto a smaller spot. There's a reason for why the Guard is called the Emperor's Hammer. And similar to how you don't use a scalpel to bash something to pulp, you don't use a hammer to cut out a tumor.

They all have their purposes.

By the way, according to the 2E and 5E Guard Codices, Storm Troopers (the real ones, not Grenadiers, Kasrkin or Inquisition STs) are even fewer than Sisters.

Brother Coa wrote:I hope that 5e sisters correct that...
I always imagine that IG > SOB > SM

There's nothing to "correct" if something has always been a certain way. And I hope this doesn't get retconned.

Whilst I used to think just like you concerning that short list, I've come to understand that there are lots of reasons (both politically as well as monetarily) for why the SoB are a comparatively small force. The formula "more powerful = less numerous" makes sense, but simply doesn't apply everywhere in 40k.

Viktor von Domm wrote:yep they cheated...many subchapters that hold tight together...

No they are 1 massive chapter...
They are so spread out however that they don't actually present much of a threat to the Imperium... that and they are mental.

And don't forget Templar own chapters as well....

Brother Coa wrote:And don't forget Templar own chapters as well....

Do you mean they have Successors? Because they don't.

Lynata wrote:
Strength in numbers gets stronger the more you escalate,

Didnt work for the russians in WWI, too many to count russians charging at some germans on horses with swords, yes it worked for a bit but then went to sh!t, if you did russia in history class you would know
and IG are kinda like russians if you think about it, look like them, insist flack armour is for real men ( flack armour <-> vodka ) and IG love tanks and russias had the best tanks in WWI and WWII
lol

There's some truth to it, but without the Red Army's strength in numbers the war on the Eastern Front would have went quite differently! It just took some time for them to "adapt" to the technologically advanced German Army and bring all of their strength to the table. Waking the bear and all.

Plus, just look at the fluff concerning Commander Chenkov.

coolyo294 wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:And don't forget Templar own chapters as well....

Do you mean they have Successors? Because they don't.

And how do you know that? It's just we never heard about them, and we have given background for only 1% of all chapters...

Brother Coa wrote:

coolyo294 wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:And don't forget Templar own chapters as well....

Do you mean they have Successors? Because they don't.

And how do you know that? It's just we never heard about them, and we have given background for only 1% of all chapters...

Because the Imperium wouldn't allow it.
BT are pushing it as it is, having successor chapter that are loyal to them over the Imperium would make them more powerful than they are already.

Brother Coa wrote:

coolyo294 wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:And don't forget Templar own chapters as well....

Do you mean they have Successors? Because they don't.

And how do you know that? It's just we never heard about them, and we have given background for only 1% of all chapters...

They're a Second Founding Chapter with a lot of background, even their own damn codex, I think we would know if they had any successors.

iproxtaco wrote:It would break the Imperium. Would you want another Horus Heresy?

yes,yes more chaos is needed....

firstly, space marines would be wooped, even if the primachs came back, they arent immortal
chances are if a primach was scrappin it up on a planet the planet would just be viurs bombed into oblivion

id say the IG alone could not take on the space marines, actually im not sure, half a dozen full regiments of cadians, plus a metric gak ton of heavy armor

but space marine tactics would mean deep striking, most likely in the middle of the armor

so again, with a rather nasty lord general, get the space marines engaged and then drop the world on their heads, so what if 3 regiments of guard die, there's always more

Fairfeldia wrote:firstly, space marines would be wooped, even if the primachs came back, they arent immortal
chances are if a primach was scrappin it up on a planet the planet would just be viurs bombed into oblivion

id say the IG alone could not take on the space marines, actually im not sure, half a dozen full regiments of cadians, plus a metric gak ton of heavy armor

but space marine tactics would mean deep striking, most likely in the middle of the armor

so again, with a rather nasty lord general, get the space marines engaged and then drop the world on their heads, so what if 3 regiments of guard die, there's always more

I don't think it would be that simple...

Fairfeldia wrote:firstly, space marines would be wooped, even if the primachs came back, they arent immortal
chances are if a primach was scrappin it up on a planet the planet would just be viurs bombed into oblivion

id say the IG alone could not take on the space marines, actually im not sure, half a dozen full regiments of cadians, plus a metric gak ton of heavy armor

but space marine tactics would mean deep striking, most likely in the middle of the armor

so again, with a rather nasty lord general, get the space marines engaged and then drop the world on their heads, so what if 3 regiments of guard die, there's always more

Then Draigo comes out of the Warp...kill every living thing on Cadia...and return to Warp unharmed to continue killing Chaos champions.

In fact it is real easy fore Space Marines to rule the Imperium, somebody just need to tell Matt Ward to write a story how Ultramarines became masters of Terra and the Imperium .

Coa, your constant Mat Ward hate is getting really annoying. Stop it. Seriously.

It's more like a tradition now...

Brother Coa wrote:It's more like a tradition now...

No it's just stupid. Really really stupid.

I believe this has been looked at before, and each individual Space Marine would have to walk thru around 25,000 Guardsmen. No matter how many Guardsmen a single marine could kill, the space marine would be broken under the sheer weight of the bodies.

Plus the SM have to get past the Navy. An average chapter has two or three strike cruisers that are designed to deploy troops and provide support fire, the Navy is there for pure voidbourne combat. Navy>>SM space travel therefore, if not impossible, incredibly improbable that the SM could take on the Navy.

+1 to purplefood

i believe it is that simple, as virus bombing removes complications