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It's obvious that GW uses rule power to increase sales. For example, the Vendetta is one of the most competitive units in the game, and work best when 3 or more are used. But to buy a Vendetta costs almost as much as a Baneblade (£40+£15 conversion kit), and to convert one from a Valkyrie is still expensive.
The same could be said about the SoB WD codex, but using a different tactic. Deadshane has a valid point.

Also, where is this leaked article and where can I find it?

TrollPie wrote:It's obvious that GW uses rule power to increase sales. For example, the Vendetta is one of the most competitive units in the game, and work best when 3 or more are used. But to buy a Vendetta costs almost as much as a Baneblade (£40+£15 conversion kit), and to convert one from a Valkyrie is still expensive.
The same could be said about the SoB WD codex, but using a different tactic. Deadshane has a valid point.

Also, where is this leaked article and where can I find it?

I point you towards WHFB Greater Daemons, Dragons, Eldar Wraithguard, Possesed Marines, Dwarf High King Thorgrim Grudgebearer, Azhag the Slaughterer and so on...

Expensive? Absolutely. Competitive? Arguable at best.

Does GW use rule power to increase sales? Absolutely, hence why all these models are expensive. However, does that make these units actually competitive? No.

Just because the Vendetta is expensive and competitive does not mean ALL competitive models are expensive.

The OP's theory is false because:
1.) Sororitas models sold on ebay are not gone from earth, but bought by a Sororitas fan.
2.) Sororitas fans waited 8 years for a new Codex, they don't freak out if they have to wait another year.
3.) GW didn't do it with Grey Knights (plastics almost identical to metals).

BTW: Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence

iproxtaco wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Has anyone even seen the new Sisters Codex?

How do you know it is going to be bad?

The first half has been scanned and posted on Dakka. Things do not bode well so far. Or do you mean the full Codex they will inevitably receive?

Okay, so half was scanned and posted, I was thinking someone had leaked the whole dex out or they were just wildly guessing.

Even with a poor first half I'd wait for a full dex to judge. For all anyone knows the second half is the reason the first half was mediocre.

DakkaDakka has rather...strange ideas as to what makes something bad. Take the Tyranid Codex. It IS competitive, just not overpowered. It is actually a job well done. But nope, it's not overpowered, like, say, Space Wolves, so it must be underpowered. Of course if it was overpowered, DakkaDakka would complain about that instead.

I think it's more likley that they realized that they should make a stopgap Sister's codex. They then decided that, no matter what else happens, it shouldn't be overpowered. So rather than playtest it to make it close, they rounded everything up and crapped it out. If nothing else, they didn't want to have OP sisters running around, especially if they're not 100% positive about having the real codex soon.

I think Deadshane has a point to the extent that GW knows that, absent a new model range, money spent on Sisters rules will have a low return on investment. So invest a little bit and move on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Squigsquasher wrote:DakkaDakka has rather...strange ideas as to what makes something bad. Take the Tyranid Codex. It IS competitive, just not overpowered. It is actually a job well done. But nope, it's not overpowered, like, say, Space Wolves, so it must be underpowered. Of course if it was overpowered, DakkaDakka would complain about that instead.

Well, there are legit problems with Nids. They can compete, but what they can't do is succesffuly build multiple completely different archtypes like IG, BA, or Wolves can do. And yeah, when a book is only a little bit worse than all the others that have come out for 5th, that makes it notably bad.

Squigsquasher wrote:Take the Tyranid Codex. It IS competitive, just not overpowered. It is actually a job well done. But nope, it's not overpowered, like, say, Space Wolves, so it must be underpowered.

Partially true imo. The Nid codex is playable, but is filled with fluffy, worthless units that are never taken competitively as far as I've seen (Old One Eye, Pyrovores, Rippers, Mawlocs, Tyrannofexes, Warriors, etc). There are competitive lists, but there are certain units that are just not used, or only used in fun lists that can't hold up to lists at a tournament.
SW on the other hand, in addition to having some arguably broken abilities and/or units, has a codex filled with completely viable and useable units. As with Nids, there are a few main lists that are seen at tournaments, but it's completely reasonable to make a list using some of the other stuff in the army.

(Coming up with armies off the top of my head) Could an all-Blood Claw, Long Fang, and Dreadnought army do well in a tournament, if not nessesarily get 1st place? Probably.
Could an army for Nids with all-Warriors, Mawlocs, and Pyrovores do as well? Probably not, without the personal sunbeams of the Dice Gods shining on you and poo-pooing on your opponent, and even then it'd be a stretch.

The Nid codex isn't underpowered, it's just got a very limited number of adequately-powered units and options, while most of the other codexes out there have a plethora of choices to make competitive lists.

/end


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@ Polonius: Gah, you read my mind and posted it! Where's my tinfoil hat?!?

BeefCakeSoup wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:Has anyone even seen the new Sisters Codex?

How do you know it is going to be bad?

The first half has been scanned and posted on Dakka. Things do not bode well so far. Or do you mean the full Codex they will inevitably receive?

Okay, so half was scanned and posted, I was thinking someone had leaked the whole dex out or they were just wildly guessing.

Even with a poor first half I'd wait for a full dex to judge. For all anyone knows the second half is the reason the first half was mediocre.

I completely agree. The first half only included Unit entries. The second half will include the army list, wargear, faith system etc. There have been quite obvious nerfs in many areas. The Penitent Engine and Serphims are two of them IIRC.

Hypothetically, SoB could be 1 point per model. That certainly wouldn't make them suck.

They probably won't be, but the point is we don't have enough information to make sweeping statements about this army.

OMG, I better sell my sisters off then, so I can buy a GK army until the SOB codex comes out.....


Why am I always the last to hear about the new news?



Honestly tho, anyone want to buy my sisters....sighs...guesses not.


I guess I rolled a for my sisters new faith powers....

Gotta admit, no one wants to think of themselves as just a number, but the OP is right.. that is what we are... a walking wallet that GW needs to pilfer now and again.

Do i want to think that GW would intentionally make bad rules to turn a profit at a later time? NO!

Do i think it is possible? sadly, yes.

So could anyone tell me where this leaked 'dex is?

I think this is just people thinking the sky is falling(like normal) I think its more they wanted to get them updated but just dont have the time to do so before 6th comes around. Since them being one of the oldest dexs now. They prolly felt they strongly needed to be brought in line with everyone else. Since after crons and tau who are getting releases out soon they will be the only ones out of line and they would be really really out of line other wise.

Maybe they're just a bad company?

Who or what says the Sisters are going to be bad? Sure the faith system is boring and the reduced number of unit choices is notable, and if you were hoping to play witch hunter inquisition quite sad. But I for one am glad that sisters become their own army again, instead of just the mooks of an inquisitor that Witch Hunters made them.

And we don't even know the most important parts yet: points cost and organization. That is where units fly or fall. For example in the case of tranids: No one plays lictors, carnifexes, pyrovores, old one eye, tyrannofexes etc, but if you would drop their points cost most people would be perfectly happy to take them. At the same time Hive guard, Malan'tai and Genestealers are awesome but if you were to increase their points enough, people would look for something else.
For all we know sisters could turn out to be dirt cheap per model, which can mean a world of difference.


Beside the already raised points of Bob having to be a complete moron to quit his sisters because of what is obviously just a temporary list, how much would it benefit GW anyway to make people re-buy a Sisters army with this cartoon villain scheme? Even if every bob out there would be dumb enough to follow suit and sell their army over the WD dex only to re-buy them when the real dex comes out, that would as far as i know be a negligible number of players. Sisters are as far as ive seen it on both the net and in real life one of the least played factions. So the profit in getting the sisters players to do something that stupid is negligible compared to the possibilities of luring all other players into starting an all new army.

And if the models look sufficiently nice then even a long time sisters player might want to update their range. I know i would have if i had a Dark Eldar army, the new range is just so much better.

As a bitter, jaded hater of GW, even I think that the OP's theory is a little far fetched.


You see, it would require Games Workshop to think of long-term effects, and they just don't do that. The above plan won't increase profits this quarter, so they wouldn't even dream of it.

Dude. Your article left me reeling on so many fronts. Not because you made any kind of rational point or anything. But you actually managed to consolidate almost everything bad about Internet forums onto one post.

First off, Games Workshop is a company. They are there to make money. If you really find this to be a shock, then I guess you need to put down the miniatures and go back to the second grade, because that's the last time this level of caring about your wellbeing you seem to value so much was even an option.

Secondly, no one gives their money to a company that they know is just going to mushroom stamp them. When a company I spend money at does something that makes me feel betrayed, I stop giving them my money. Pretty simple.

SRM is right. When you use words like terribad, you make rational people instantly lump you into the 'loony' category. Rather than want to listen to you, we want to tell you to take your petition and get off our lawn.

I don't know what you want out of them Shane, but I think your expectations are unreasonable. And to be honest, I'm really tired of being nice to crazy people. Grow up, dude.

@Threeshades: Good point. I remember somebody mentioning how if pyrovores/zoanthropes/lictors/venomthropes were IC instead of their own squads, they'd be amazing, even for 25-50% more cost. Hopefully Sisters will follow the DE and be pretty AND playable, and not gimmicky/broken (Like certain unnamed SM chapter armies) or uncompetitive (Necrons)

The OP’s post does generate some interesting ideas. Rather than focus on the WD Sisters part of the argument, I’m going to focus on the larger part of the argument, being rules tweaking to generate sales.

I’ve long suspected that 5th edition rules are largely tweaked to generate sales considering the bigger and better syndrome of 5th edition marine codices (with each being bigger and better than the last) as well as individual cases such as the Carnifex and Trygon, Flying Landraider and the Dreadknight. The large power creep with GW rules could also be taken as evidence (power creep is a great incentive to encourage someone to buy an additional army while they wait for their older one to be updated),

If I were to offer a hypothesis regarding this, I’d say this largely applies solely to actual codices. I think a contributing factor to the quality issues with WD rules is largely due to GW putting fractional effort into a WD rule set due to a codex sale not being involved. Another contributing factor is probably because GW doesn’t give a damn regarding the quality issues with their rules in general.

If both white dwarves get released and sisters really do suck out loud I'd be more inclined to think it was because GW was trying to passively squat them without catching too much flack.

This pattern could be both, generate sales by getting people pissed off and speaking up and giving feed back. There's never going to be true balance, especially on a competitve level. But a lot of people play this as just a board game plain and simple. Fluff and cool gak doesn't have to be effectivea at a competitve lvl to be fun. this. WD code stuff is just testing the water in a way no? A beta version of the codex Instead of realsing and then getting feedback doesn't seem like a good idea. But that's just my view. One thing is for sure. Anger is a very good attention grabber so why not pre release a bunch of stuff that's on the table. Hold back on the things they know are great, and watch the community go beserk and get involved. On the other hand, profit ensures growth, new cool gak and an expanding community, cant do that with non profit period

Here is my theory:

The OP's post is Terribad.


Seriously though, They could just be testing the waters with Sisters in the White Dwarf.

They update sisters and see if they sell more, if they sell well enough, they get a real codex after Necrons (or whoever is next). If they don't, they become the new Blood Angels! BANISHED TO PDF CODEX(until GW thinks the Sisters can sell well/GW squats the sisters)

can anyone make me a tin foil hat shaped like a commissar hat? I'd so buy it

Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity.

Jimsolo wrote:Dude. Your article left me reeling on so many fronts. Not because you made any kind of rational point or anything. But you actually managed to consolidate almost everything bad about Internet forums onto one post.

Really? I just thought I was posting an idea for discussion.

First off, Games Workshop is a company. They are there to make money. If you really find this to be a shock, then I guess you need to put down the miniatures and go back to the second grade, because that's the last time this level of caring about your wellbeing you seem to value so much was even an option.

Ummm, I do believe in my OP I made exactly this very point....about how they're there to make money.

Secondly, no one gives their money to a company that they know is just going to mushroom stamp them.

You must not have insurance.

When a company I spend money at does something that makes me feel betrayed, I stop giving them my money. Pretty simple.

You know those taxes you've been paying for the last few years...you know, for Social Security......

SRM is right. When you use words like terribad, you make rational people instantly lump you into the 'loony' category. Rather than want to listen to you, we want to tell you to take your petition and get off our lawn.

Really now, can we get off of this? I've seen as more complaints over that single word than anything else in my OP. Get over yourselves.

I don't know what you want out of them Shane, but I think your expectations are unreasonable. And to be honest, I'm really tired of being nice to crazy people. Grow up, dude.

You have a sad reaction to a point simply brought forward for discussion. If you're that offended....put me on ignore, leave the thread, or go post an army list or something. Your accusations of me being CRAZY are obviously against forum rules. I've broken no rules here....namecalling on the other hand, especially when one is simply expressing an idea for discussion, is completely unwarranted an is in fact...immature. Heed your own advice sir....grow up.

Please refrain from personal attacks, such as calling or strongly implying other posters crazy because they disagree with you. This is against the DakkaDakka site rules. There is nothing wrong with saying you disagree with someone and criticizing their points. That criticism does not need to involve name calling.

lets remember people, Gamesworkshop is mostly a northern hemisphere company, sure theres a few Aussies and South africans, maybe the odd kiwi, but mostly northern hemisphere

what season are we in, SUMMER, what do normal sane people do in summer, go outside
if im outside playing ricket or football what am i not doing, im not sitting at my desk painting my expensive shiny IG army, that means that im not making money for GW
so they release a taster of SOB as mentioned by some Dakkite above me to gauge market reaction, to get people interested in models over the summer months and of course, its going to give a bit of a profit boost for the warmer months

Doesn't matter what GW does to increase profits, they are still going to get your money. Especially if you want to play SOB...

Just have to be smart about buying armies, if you want all the new shiney stuff than you are going to buy it no matter how much it cost. If you are fine with playing older models than so be it. I don't see the issue here. It's a hobby, all hobbies are exspensive.

You say that they only care about the money and nothing else, every major company only cares about the money but we still buy their products. What makes GW so different that they should care about us to actually sell items, it shouldn't. As long as we get what we want from them and are satisfied, nothing is wrong. If you are not satisfied, then stop collecting

Sorry but that statement is not correct

Companies are very aware that their image is important.
GW are unique in my experience.
Yeah I know, Apple.

forget it can't be arsed any more
You want to use that to justify it to yourself fine.
But please don't expect everyone to believe the delusion.