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Whoa those are some determinedly dormant Genestealers! Fair play to you. I've started some construction already but i'm pretty sure i've got at least one Ravener on sprue, but i don't think there is much left in the way of Warriors. Better news is that i have 1 and a bit metal Venomthropes although the lash whips have been salvaged for the Warriors. Not great really... I'm pretty sure theres other interesting stuff but i'll need to look it out. Off the top of my head, Broodlords, Zoanthropes, Gargoyles, Hormagaunts... Who knows what else. I'll pm you tomorrow when i have a better idea. If i don't have what you need we can talk cash.

EDIT: Great sketches! I seem to have completely lost my talent with a pencil, maybe it was never there. I probably need practice more than anything.

Back to the list...

Just to butt in late ... if you're looking at warriors in a spore (really the only way to get them into the game properly) then the prime as an HQ no longer works. They would need to be deployed separately and so you'd be better off with say a tervigon for the price of those 2 primes ...

@ ruminator: I realise that at this points level you can't take a Tyrant with Hive commander, a Prime and a respectably sized squad of Warriors but, in a higher points game, with such a combo, couldn't you outflank the Prime with the Warriors? As far as I can tell, the FAQ only said you can't join a Prime to a squad in a pod, it didn't say anything about outflankers.

Dark_Gear wrote:@ ruminator: I realise that at this points level you can't take a Tyrant with Hive commander, a Prime and a respectably sized squad of Warriors but, in a higher points game, with such a combo, couldn't you outflank the Prime with the Warriors? As far as I can tell, the FAQ only said you can't join a Prime to a squad in a pod, it didn't say anything about outflankers.

Agree, but that combo alone is going to be 600 points. Maybe at 1,750 but doubtful below that level as you need to commit some anti-tank to the list.

Damn, i'm going to have some real problems if i want to keep this list idea. Back to the drawing board. Wings, maybe i need big wings...

ruminator wrote:Just to butt in late ... if you're looking at warriors in a spore (really the only way to get them into the game properly) then the prime as an HQ no longer works. They would need to be deployed separately and so you'd be better off with say a tervigon for the price of those 2 primes ...

ANd why not.The spore can carry 20 infantry.9 warriors+2 primes is only 11.


And that's less than 20 with the maximum number of warriors.He is using less(I think,I can't get onto the other pages right now)


So why not a warrior brood with primes?

If you read the 2010 FAQ for the Tyranid Codex(Something i also overlooked) Deadshot then you will see that independent characters and therefore Primes are not allowed to board Mycetic Spores with a unit that bought them.

It's on the Games Workshop website if you want to have a look.

<min-rant>

Yet another example of the extent to which GW will go to ensure victories for their poster boys.

</mini rant>

Sad but true.

Here is an itinerary of the Tyranids that i own. Theres about 1500points of drop units in there, not an effective OR fluffy list though.
1 Hive Tyrant
3 Zoanthropes
2 Venomthropes
1 Deathleaper
1 Broodlord
4 Genestealers
48 Hormagaunts
6 Warriors
3 Raveners
9ish Gargoyles
1 top half of a Mawloc/Trygon
1 bottom half of a Carnifex
Also found:
16ish Kroot
10ish Deamonettes
1 Herald of Khorne on Juggernaut
5 Dark Elf Cold One Riders without the Cold Ones

My most recent brief requires; Deathleaper, Mycetic Spores, Ymgarl and something to kill tanks. I'm not too worried about effectiveness after seeing what they did to us via the FAQ.
That makes a WIP list of;
HQ:
Elites:
Deathleaper - 140pts
Ymgarls x10 - 230pts
Ymgarls x10 - 230pts
Troops:
Tyranid Warriors x3(Devourers/Lash-Whips and Boneswords/Toxin Sacs)
+ (Mycetic Spore/Cluster Spines) - 200pts
Tyranid Warriors x3(Devourers/Lash-Whips and Boneswords/Toxin Sacs)
+ (Mycetic Spore/Cluster Spines) - 200pts
Total: 1000pts

Getting a bit tired of hitting dead ends tbh.

If you want tank hunters,3 carnifexes with crushing claws,bioplasma,Adrenal Glands and Heavy Venom Cannons are good.

@ Deadshot: Yes, 3 Carnies in the setup you mention is great for anti-tank except if you try to squeeze them into a 1000 point list.

I'm just curious how you would spend your remaining 280 points to make a viable list? I just can't see building a worthwhile list with 3 of them.

@ Casey: I hate to say it but Deathleaper really seems like a point sink at 1000points because he's so ineffective (though so beautifully fluffy).

Seeing as how you seem to maintain a theme to your list I'd suggest the Parasite of Mortrex. He performs fairly well in assault but as an added bonus he serves to discourage outflankers while creating rippers for free. Totally sucks in KP games but oh so fun when you roll 4+ for amount of bases.

The warriors seem a bit ineffective for the points too but I'm not too sure what I'd suggest as replacements yet. I'll get back to you on that.

Yes Deadshot, as Dark_Gear said, those carnies don't really fit to 1000pts, do they?

Dark_Gear wrote:@ Casey: I hate to say it but Deathleaper really seems like a point sink at 1000points because he's so ineffective (though so beautifully fluffy).

Its frakking killing me man! I refuse to drop him but he lands the entire army on there arses from the word go. I have resigned myself to the fact that this list will be in no way competitive, all i can do is make it pretty and fluffy!

Parasite of Mortrex has been overlooked as i don't really like it, i'm not sure why. I guess i could use it's rules and model it as something else with a different narrative. I'll look into that tonight.

As for the warriors, i'm at pains to agree. I'm thinking of running them on the cheap. 150ish points per unit of 3 with spod.

I'll try writing another list tonight.

You get 3 with Scything talon and deathspitters,a venom cannon and adrenal glands for 130.145 if you want Toxin sacs.The AG are for the bonus to Int.Running them at 3 per brood is fragile,so the bonus Int might just help them kill of those Assault Marines before they can fight.

!
Might drop Deathleaper for a Lictor if i can bring myself to do it. I'll consider it. They really should have made the special characters HQ units...

I'm thinking British moths for colour. Pale brown/grey/white bodies, range of mainly darker browns mottled on for carapace.
Basing... Considering snow as i haven't used it yet and i have some. Also the Deathleaper/Lictor i've been working on needs to be raised up. Rocky bases? Cheaper than me going and buying loads of terrain to chop up.

What do you all think?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just saw your post Deadshot. Initiative might be useful at this points level actually but otherwise your unit costs nearly the same as the more expensive ones i'm trying to get away from. Please read the previous posts or don't reply to this thread...

@Dark_Gear: As i said i would i checked out your more scenic bases. The Shrikes are perfect for me. I'm thinking polystyrene packaging for a ruined wall with some bits/slate/etc thrown in to the mix. Going to keep it simple though so as not to attract from Deathleapers 'pouncing' pose.

As for the list i mentioned. It's not very effective but it's fluffy and it's coming together.
HQ:
Tyrant(Wings/Lash Whip+Bonesword/Heavy Venom Cannon) - 255pts[He's an expensive little joke but he fills the necessary HQ spot, deep strikes and will kill tanks to boot!]
Elites:
Deathleaper - 140pts[Lets face it, my narrative wouldn't make sense without this useless lump, he may end up tank popping.]
Ymgarls x5 - 115pts[A nice back up to the fluff i'm using and they may just surprise me in battle.]
Troops:
Warriors x3(Devourers/Lash Whips+Boneswords/Toxin Sacs)[Hardcore, these guys will take on most infantry and hopefully come off well!]
+ Mycetic Spore(Cluster Spines) - 200pts[Everyone needs a ride that's fluffy and dangerous.]
Warriors x3(Devourers/Lash Whips+Boneswords/Toxin Sacs)[Double trouble.]
+ Mycetic Spore(Cluster Spines) - 200pts[Why not have two?]
Fast Attack:
Spore Mines x3 - 30pts[Cheap and useful. Fluff,]
Spore Mines x3 - 30pts[fluff,]
Spore Mines x3 - 30pts[fluff!]
Total: 1000pts

Please rip it apart but remember theres no point in writing lots about why it doesn't work tactically because my answer may simply be, "Fluff." I'm open to making alterations but i'm pretty happy.

Ok here goes with some but first, a checklist.

1. It's fluffy on purpose so don't gripe about that or alter the list too far away from said gripe-worthy theme
2. Don't touch Deathleaper.
3. Keep it fast.

The list then runs like this.

HQ:
Tyrant(Wings/Lash Whip+Bonesword/Heavy Venom Cannon, Hive Commander, Old Adversary) — Now 280 points but now you have a backup of Deathleaper's ability and you can outflank rather than pod it in, thus "saving" 15 points off the points of a pod.
Elites:
Deathleaper — 140pts
Ymgarls x5 — 115pts
Troops:
Warriors x3 | (Devourers/Lash Whips+Boneswords/Toxin Sacs)[Hardcore, these guys will take on most infantry and hopefully come off well!]
+ Mycetic Spore(Cluster Spines) - 200pts[Everyone needs a ride that's fluffy and dangerous.]
Hormogaunts x20 | Glands and Sacs — These beautiful angry puppies will now outflank which means they can charge on the turn they arrive. If they can actually show up on the proper side and get within 6 inches of the Tyrant they will actually get to reroll both hits and wounds on the charge. The only squad in this game that will survive 54 attacks is a squad of 20 ork boys.

Total: 1000pts

There you have it. The Tyrant boosts everyone's chances in a fight and increases the likelyhood that people arrive as well. Having 18 hormogaunts outflanking represent the Hive Mind sending in the angry wasps to protect the King once he gets ambushed during his Sunday Stroll in the GrimDark Park.

Thanks for the reply. Some very good points but i'm not feeling all of them. I'm not sure if i want to drop the pods(pun intended), i'd really like to make the models and they work for the fluff. I.e. the Deathleaper calling the norn queen to send forces from the fleet. That reminds me of something i meant to ask you, but i'll ask on the appropriate thread... Also, i believe your suggested Tyrant comes in at 305pts not 280pts. The list is also 40pts short which is nice room for movement. That could be wrong, i'm a bit tired. One thing i now agree with is the spore mines, consider them gone.
I'm going to make an executive decision and keep the 6 Warriors. It's not looking to sharp with 40pts left. I notice that if i ignore your better judgement and take my original Flyrant then i have room to pop in 3 Raveners. Sound like a good idea? They would have to be base cost though...

HQ:
Tyrant(Wings/Lash Whip+Bonesword/Heavy Venom Cannon) - 255pts
Elites:
Deathleaper - 140pts
Ymgarls x5 - 115pts
Troops:
Warriors x3(Devourers/Lash Whips+Boneswords/Toxin Sacs)
+ Mycetic Spore(Cluster Spines) - 200pts
Warriors x3(Devourers/Lash Whips+Boneswords/Toxin Sacs)
+ Mycetic Spore(Cluster Spines) - 200pts
Fast Attack:
Raveners x3 - 90pts
Total: 1000pts

Well seen on the Tyrant's cost. I originally inserted him into the list without Old Adversary and 20 Hormogaunts until I realised I could spend the 5points by dropping 2 gaunts and buying the power. Call me crazy but I can't stand having lists that aren't a perfect points total. Oddly enough, it's usually easy with Nids, unlike Dark Eldar.

I'm not at all a fan of bare bones Raveners as they all too often end suffering the same fate as Deathleaper:

Show up, Get shot at, Die.

At least equipped with Deathspitters it changes their story a bit to:

Show up, shoot, immobolise or otherwise disable a vehicle, Get shot at, Die.

This story didn't change unless I take 5 or more in my games because then they actually have enough wounds to survive one turn and possibly assault whatever they immobolised last turn, such as an annoying dreadnought. I could live without the Deathspitter as long as you have Rending Claws, at 5 points they are a must. GW should have just given them to the unit and bumped up the unit's cost right off the bat IMHO.

I'll have to ponder this more and get back to you.

Your completely right. The Raveners are point wasters. What i really need is another Mycetic Spore + Troops. With only 90pts to work with, i'll need to put my thinking cap on if i want more troops.

Just buy bare bones Hormogaunts or Fleshborer Gaunts. At 5 poijnts each for the later, that's 18 in total.

Keep them in reserve and walk them from your table edge to camp on your "neglected" objective. Seeing as how they lurk by default all you need to do is make sure your objective is in terrain and you're golden.

Good choice, what if there aren't any objectives though?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
HQ:
Tyrant(Wings/Lash Whip+Bonesword/Heavy Venom Cannon/Hive Commander) - 280pts
Elites:
Deathleaper - 140pts
Ymgarls x5 - 115pts
Troops:
Warriors x3(Devourers/Lash Whips+Boneswords/Toxin Sacs)
+ Mycetic Spore(Cluster Spines) - 200pts
Warriors x3(Devourers/Lash Whips+Boneswords/Toxin Sacs)
+ Mycetic Spore(Cluster Spines) - 200pts
Hormagaunts x10 - 60pts
Total: 995pts

How does that look? Now those 10 Gaunts can pop in in the correct place. Does Hive Commander work even when the Tyrant isn't on the board? Not dead just in reserve. I guess i can use the gaunts to steal a late objective or to hold up a unit.

From my understanding of the rules, you don't need the Tyrant to be on the board for the Troops to outflank, but you do need him there to take advantage of the +1 to reserves.

At least now you have good a possible cover save / distraction to preserve your Warriors too.

Yep. Wait, is that it?! Is it over? Haha. Job done. Time to start building.

Dark_Gear wrote:From my understanding of the rules, you don't need the Tyrant to be on the board for the Troops to outflank, but you do need him there to take advantage of the +1 to reserves.

At least now you have good a possible cover save / distraction to preserve your Warriors too.

You do not need him to be there to take advantage of either.If he is in reserve he is counted as alive,because he is not dead.

Hmm, the RAW do suggest that as long as he's alive then it's all good. I'll go with that for now as it makes sense for him to be able to 'help out' even if hes not made an appearance yet. If someone corrects me during a game i'll change it. Also, the 'Pheromone Trail' rules specify that the unit has to be on the board at the start of the movement phase so we can assume the lack of such a rule for 'Hive Commander' means it just depends on whether the Tyrant is alive.

Yup, much like Deathleaper, the Tyrant bonus to reserve rolls won't take effect until turn 3, assuming he comes in on turn 2.

The outflanking move is a result of his presence in the vicinity of the battle so yes, as per RAW, it works at all times so the gaunts can pop in on turn 2.

This is my inspiration for colour.

I need to figure out how to do those wings... Plasticard might be too thick. On that note, did you get my pm Dark_Gear?

I might be able to do it with dry, solid, thick leaves and varnish them to keep them good, and put them over plasticard to keep them strong.

Took a wee break for a while but i'm getting back into it now. The Flyrant is starting to come together. Fresh eyes on the project and my inability to leave well alone has resulted in yet another list change. <sigh> It's pretty much disregarding all sense now and just looking at the fluff and then filling in the leftover points. It comes to an even 1000 now and it's pretty much symmetrical which is satisfying my ocd.

HQ:
Tyrant(Wings/Lash Whip+Bonesword/Twin-Linked Devourers+Brainleech Worms/Implant Attack) - 260pts
Elites:
Deathleaper - 140pts
Ymgarls x5 - 115pts
Ymgarls x5 - 115pts
Troops:
Warriors x3(Devourers/Lash Whips+Boneswords)
+ Mycetic Spore(Cluster Spines) - 185pts
Warriors x3(Devourers/Lash Whips+Boneswords)
+ Mycetic Spore(Cluster Spines) - 185pts
Total: 1000pts

so you find that normal stealers dont work? i happen to have close to 20 stealers, (got em for a steal....heh heh heh) was originally planning on a unit of normal stealers at 10-12 str each. but i also like the idea of the yrmgarls...problem is the limited and other elite options available...like DoM, hive gaurd and so on.

DarthSpader wrote:so you find that normal stealers dont work? i happen to have close to 20 stealers, (got em for a steal....heh heh heh) was originally planning on a unit of normal stealers at 10-12 str each. but i also like the idea of the yrmgarls...problem is the limited and other elite options available...like DoM, hive gaurd and so on.

Haha, hey man. I don't have enough in game practice to possibly comment on how good they are. I chose the Ymgarls because of my background story(which i'll write up soon). Elite options are extremely crowded so there are probably better places to spend your points. If you want some educated advice on what to choose and what is effective then i'd read Dark_Gear's Nid blog and maybe ask him some questions. He really knows what he's talking about, interestingly i know he's not a fan of genestealers at all. Hope that helps!