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Maybe the gene seed mutated so that it reacted badly with male hormones, and became suitable for women. But the Warp giving them a sex change? Unless Slaanesh itself came down on them that's not gonna happen.

TrollPie wrote:Maybe the gene seed mutated so that it reacted badly with male hormones, and became suitable for women. But the Warp giving them a sex change? Unless Slaanesh itself came down on them that's not gonna happen.

As I've said, gender changes are easily possible with certain genetic mutations. Not to mention that this makes far more sense than the Blood Drinker's gene seed, which makes you crave blood, or the Blood Raven, who can't dream and can remember everything, or the Salamanders' - which somehow causes melanism (possible) and an eye colouration for which there is no pigment.

Errr maybe the gene-seed causes hermaphrodites in the chapter? After all it does occur in humans, might provide a semi-legitimate excuse/compromise.

although sisters of battle implemented with gene-seed seems more likely in my opinion, I like the original idea in the first post. I think I would read a novel about it if there was one. And space marines with xeno-tech sounds cool (like a vet. sergeant with a gauss blaster.

female space marines? Kinda impossible actually...the Primarchs are male, so I doubt gene-seed could bond with female DNA. What's more, considering the Imperium's distrust of mutants, any major mutations in a gene-seed sample would lead to Inquisitorial intervention on the chapter in question.

From what I can remember:

a) when it's been experimented with it, the female dies because gene seed just don't work in us ladies.

b) it was done specifically that way so that SMs couldn't breed.

Just use a different antagonist, there's plenty of female antogonstic chars out there.

CadianCommander wrote:From what I can remember:

a) when it's been experimented with it, the female dies because gene seed just don't work in us ladies.

b) it was done specifically that way so that SMs couldn't breed.

Just use a different antagonist, there's plenty of female antogonstic chars out there.

Heard about that too. Apparently, gene-seed implantation in females results in horrific (and mercifully fatal) results.

It's also good to note that very few female 40k players, either wargaming or roleplaying, are upset or annoyed that there are no female space marines. This is because it's not a sexist things, it's because female space marines don't make sense and the idea of them is silly.

A good, powerful antagonist for the OP might be a coven of female rogue pyskers who have 'liberated' Battle Sister power armour and desecrated it. I know that would make my RT char have to change her pants to brown trousers. Or was it for a DW game? Still works.

Have to say that some of the best female SM fluff was by Doc Thunder.

But even so there are a few different routes to female marines that aren't Mary Sue (no pun intended - well...), or are some kind of horrific henti plot

I personally don't much see the need for female super-soldiers to be specifically Space Marines. There's plenty of other canonical ways to have female super-soldiers, and some of those might actually still produce an end result that doesn't look like Arnold Schwarzenegger in drag.

For example, the augmetic, biological, genetic and bionic boosts used by the Officio Assassinorum can all work on females, and produce a level of physical performance that is more or less on a par with Space Marines. Tweak those boosts as appropriate, add in some power armour, enough training and some dogmatic indoctrination, and the end result could be very equivalent. Assuming enough of the physical performance comes from the boosts (meaning that issues like upper body strength and cardiovascular limits wouldn't come up) and that suppressing troublesome things like the menstrual cycle is probably child's play compared to the rest of it, then starting with females wouldn't really be a problem.

Of course, explaining why they'd been made is another matter and who exactly had the resources to do it, but that same question is even worse with female SMs.

So, roughly the same end result, no unresolvable canonical issues. The only deal is you don't get to call them Space Marines.

Also, why, when gender restrictions come up, is it always female Space Marines and not male Sororita?

Agreed - if you want to have female warriors in power armour plenty of possibilities:

Chaos did it - Slaanesh prime candidate but Tzeentch might also be amused by the idea
Dark Eldar Homonulclus did it (for a laugh)
Adeptus Mechanicus did it - tech and bio laternation is all good for them.
a non Imperial human stellar nation did it - female versions of the ones at the start of Prospero Burns
A Elite force recruited by a Imperial Governor, Rogue Trader or Inquisitor

MarcoSkoll wrote:Also, why, when gender restrictions come up, is it always female Space Marines and not male Sororita?

I would guess that there are two reasons.

1) Space Marines get much, much more exposure, so people are more likely to want to experiment with them.

2) The reason for Sororitas being all female is specifically addressed, but there's not a lot of disclosure on why Marines can't be female. At least, not in any of the main books.

htj wrote:I would guess that there are two reasons.

I was being somewhat rhetorical. The reason is easy - gender flips are almost always in the direction the creator finds more appealing and most players are either heterosexual adolescent males or adults who think they're heterosexual adolescent males.

The reason for Sororitas being all female is specifically addressed, but there's not a lot of disclosure on why Marines can't be female.

Even ignoring any arguments about the biological possibility of it, Space Marines being all male is, for all practical purposes, as much Imperial law as the Decree Passive preventing "men at arms".

Only the High Lords can order the creation of a new chapter (anyone else trying would breach Imperial law). So, there are twelve men for whom it is legal, who would have to collectively decide all of the following:
a) it would work, rather than being a waste of valuable resources
b) to breach thousands of years of defined practice
c) that it's fine to attempt something that the Emperor (in his infinite godly wisdom) never did
d) that the AdMech (who treat free-thinking and innovation as forms of heresy) would appreciate being asked to breach their sacred tech-rituals
e) that all the other Chapters would think this is a good idea rather than getting up in arms over the breach of their own ritual and religion
f) that's there's actually any advantage whatsoever to doing it over male Space Marines.

That leaves umpty trillion people for whom it is illegal, and 12 men who will almost certainly never decide to do it. Ergo, it's as near to Imperial law as makes no difference.

And if you want to argue that it's an already formed chapter that's expanding its ranks, then all reasons apart from D (as implantation would fall into the hands of the Apothecaries by then) still apply, with a new point G:
G) That the Inquisition wouldn't have anything to say about this experimentation.

That might not affect the possibility of Chaos trying to do it, but in all honesty, when you throw the warp into the mix, any arguments about what should and shouldn't be scientifically possible are well and truly defenestrated. Not that I can recall many examples of people trying to do female Chaos Marines.

EDIT: Minor spelling errors

In my experience it's mainly females who go for the whole female Space Marine thing, the adolescent male thing being a bit of a fallacy - although the stereotype comes from a real place of course.

Nethertheless, that's a really good, logical, non-ranty argument against the idea of a credible female Space Marine chapter, MarcoSkoll, one of the best I've seen.

Personally, I'd prefer to see more people building sexually non-specific and androgynous Slaanesh marines than another female Marine idea.

htj said: In my experience it's mainly females who go for the whole female Space Marine thing

Really? I've more found the opposite. I've seen guys get up in arms on behalf of female players about there not being female SMs, whilst the ladies (myself included) just scoff at the idea and point out it's not sexism, it just isn't possible.

CadianCommander wrote:

htj said: In my experience it's mainly females who go for the whole female Space Marine thing

Really? I've more found the opposite. I've seen guys get up in arms on behalf of female players about there not being female SMs, whilst the ladies (myself included) just scoff at the idea and point out it's not sexism, it just isn't possible.

My younger sister doesn't mind the non-appearance of female Space Marines, and she prefers Khornate Chaos Space Marines.

htj wrote:In my experience it's mainly females who go for the whole female Space Marine thing

Maybe. I don't know enough female players to comment, although of those I know that do/did play, I can't recall it ever coming up - they either opt for things as they are or are quite happy with Sororitas as an alternative. My general experience has been the same as the two posters above.

But in any case, in fiction in general, gender swaps do mostly go male to female. See Rule 63, the First Law of Gender Bending and all that. (Links are safe for work, although do lead to TvTropes.)

As far as androgynous Chaos Marines... an interesting idea, but to take something so stereotypically masculine as a Marine and actually make them convincingly androgynous rather than opting for a crude "hermaphroditic" solution (like the current daemonettes with half and half biology) would take one hell of a modeller. I'd like to see it done, but doubt I ever will.

Why don't you just say that they're special SoB with SM implants?
Women in power armour, check.
Sounds most logical (and coolest) to me.