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This has me curious. I'm gonna go post stuff now and see if anyone says anything.

So my admiration could be considered spam?

Christ, I'll watch who I give any praise in future. Wouldn't want to be punished by the mods for showing my appreciation of someone elses work.



Theres that unpleasant smell of snobbish elitism again...

dave_salmon wrote:So my admiration could be considered spam?

Christ, I'll watch who I give any praise in future. Wouldn't want to be punished by the mods for showing my appreciation of someone elses work.

Where do you get that ridiculous idea from?

If someone posts a work in progress piece, asking for comments and criticisms and all you reply is "Good job!"--that doesn't really help the poster.

If you replied with "I can't see anything that I would suggest you change, it looks like a good job!"--that does help the poster.

There's that unpleasant smell of snobbish elitism again...

It's got nothing to do with "elitism".

It has everything to do with one wanting to better themselves. There are people who post things with the express purpose of wanting backpats. That's good for them.

Some people actually want substance in comments on their pieces.

I should have quoted this in my post:

Jimsolo wrote:Dave - Yes, some people on Dakka actually think that 'Nice Job' constituted spam, the post should be removed, and consistent offenders punished. Especially if the paint job is poor. I'm not one of them, but they do exist.

I was replying to this comment.

Kanluwen wrote:Some people actually want substance in comments on their pieces.

But to criticise people for showing admiration is, in my opinion, snobbish.

I feel ya bruv, 100% .

A couple of observations:

1) Are you painting models in the same colours as the GW models? Or doing your own DIY colours? I rarely comment on unmodified Ultramarines, Blood Angels, Salamanders etc. because I've seen too many of them over the years. I'm interested in people's creativity and ingenuity, rather than copying existing schemes. It's hard to feel too passionate about unmodified models painted in the same scheme GW has been using for 20+ years. What makes your model unique from the thousands of other marines that people see every day on the internet?

2) Are you asking questions in your posts? Rather than a generic "tell me what you think?", ask questions that show you are serious about improving specific aspects of the model like "how do I get smoother paint"? or "Do you think the blue looks good with red armour?". Even focusing on the parts your particularly proud of, like "hey, I'm experimenting painting power swords and am really happy with the results" gives people a starting point. I'm OCD enough that I'm unable to walk away from questions like that without taking a minute to answer. It helps to know that you are looking to improve, or have a specific concern, so I can understand what sort of feedback you are looking for.

Basically, I'm suggesting you start the conversation. It makes it much easier for people to respond to.

Some people don't want unsolicited advice, just praise for a model that is the best they've ever painted, so I don't tend to respond unless the model effects me strongly or people ask for feedback.

If you just want "that's awesome!", well, that's what your family is for, not the internet.

dave_salmon wrote:I should have quoted this in my post:

Jimsolo wrote:Dave - Yes, some people on Dakka actually think that 'Nice Job' constituted spam, the post should be removed, and consistent offenders punished. Especially if the paint job is poor. I'm not one of them, but they do exist.

I was replying to this comment.

Then I'd suggest you go read the relevant thread. It's still around, it's just locked.

Kanluwen wrote:Some people actually want substance in comments on their pieces.

But to criticise people for showing admiration is, in my opinion, snobbish.

It wasn't "criticising people for showing admiration". It was "criticising people for not actually making substantial posts". I could run down the P&M blogs and just add "Good job!" or some variation of it to every thread.

What would you call that, if not spam?

Take a few extra minutes if you're going to show admiration. Mention specifics of what you like on the model. It doesn't hurt you or waste your time to do such a thing.

OK, fair enough.

If some posts exactly that or slight variations on every post, I can see why that aggravates people.

I will admit that this thread has encouraged me to be more specific with what I've commented recently.

I have been left with a bit of a bitter taste though and will think twice about commenting at all if I have nothing specific to say about the model.

Actually, thinking about it, sometimes I want to point something out or give my two cents but see the quality of the job, the experience of the member and how long they've been around and feel a little intimidated and wonder if my opinion would be valued at all. Thats more my problem though I reckon.

It would be impossible to comment on every post of every mini or within every blog - I'd like to but it's simply impossible. I'm guilty of not voting enough on here for people's galleries, yet between this, Coolminiornot & Beasts of War - how much time do you want to dedicate to forum posting?

I try not to take anything too personally - although if you've spent hours on something it can be difficult to see no comments, or just a handful. Also the majority of people here are lurkers, as the replies to views and guest users online suggests (hello Lurker people - you bunch of twisted voyeurs ).

It shouldn't bother anyone too deeply IMHO - but the hobby does take an amount of soul-juice to run, so it's not surprising to feel this way, but I wouldn't let it get me 'down'. Sometimes there's nothing you can say but 'Awesome' or 'I like it because x,y,z...' somtimes you may rather post nothing, because you don't want to lie or because someone has already posted a very similar opinion.

I really dig your mosaics, especially the chaos one. You should use them as the floor in a diorama. That would be really killer!

dave_salmon wrote:Actually, thinking about it, sometimes I want to point something out or give my two cents but see the quality of the job, the experience of the member and how long they've been around and feel a little intimidated and wonder if my opinion would be valued at all. Thats more my problem though I reckon.

Say it anyway! The more in-depth and well-articulated the criticism you offer, the more likely people are to take it seriously, whether you're a well-known Dakkanaut or not. I've been around here for a while and I've posted a decent bit, but I'm far, far away from being a recognizable figure. I'm not the go-to guy for anything and I don't have the sheer weight of posts to impress people with assumed veteran status. However, I've talked as an equal with real artists, here, not because I'm as good or well-known as they, but because I've presented good points and engaged in lively, meaningful discussion.

It's the content that carries you in any thread, not your post count or personal gallery (God knows I've long since passed the point where my theoretical knowledge surpassed my skill and practical experience, especially anything documented by photos - no one would take me seriously if experience was all that counted). Regarding the OP, I'm always a little crestfallen when something I post isn't really engaged with, but that's the way of things. Speak up, speak well, and people will eventually notice, even if it's not every time.

I don't post anything that I do hobby-wise on these kind of forums. Why? Because these forums are generally terrible with terrible people that I'd honestly prefer most of find a different hobby far away from gaming.

When I need feedback, I get it instantly from my friends and the other local painters. You know, the people I actually care about.

If I really feel the need to post something online, I have a livejournal with a friends list of people whose opinions I'll actually care about.

Edit: Fixed "Post-From-Phone-itis"

Bugger me, thats a bit strong Worglock.

Mastiff wrote:
2) Are you asking questions in your posts? Rather than a generic "tell me what you think?", ask questions that show you are serious about improving specific aspects of the model like "how do I get smoother paint"? or "Do you think the blue looks good with red armour?". Even focusing on the parts your particularly proud of, like "hey, I'm experimenting painting power swords and am really happy with the results" gives people a starting point. I'm OCD enough that I'm unable to walk away from questions like that without taking a minute to answer. It helps to know that you are looking to improve, or have a specific concern, so I can understand what sort of feedback you are looking for.

Basically, I'm suggesting you start the conversation. It makes it much easier for people to respond to.

Some people don't want unsolicited advice, just praise for a model that is the best they've ever painted, so I don't tend to respond unless the model effects me strongly or people ask for feedback.

If you just want "that's awesome!", well, that's what your family is for, not the internet.

I was going to post exactly this. My experience is that when you simply post a model to get 'feedback' that you probably won't get much of any unless your model is completely unique and amazing.

If it isn't that, then you need to be asking a specific question that people can respond to.

Polonius wrote:People respond to things that interest them. It's not really an objective standard of quality, but rather that some things are easier to comment on than others.

I agree with Polonius. I understand where you're coming from, but try not to sweat it. There's all sorts of reasons why something might not draw much attention. You could always post up some pics in this thread and I'm sure some folks would give you a bit of constructive criticism.

As others have said, its best to be in the hobby for yourself, but I also understand that when working on projects at home and trying out new ideas or techniques with no one to look at comment on your work it can feel like you're in a vacuum and it can sometimes be difficult to gauge if you're moving in a good direction. If you've got a local hobby community, you could always bring what you've been working on when you play and show it to people. You can also ask friends and relatives that aren't into the hobby to have a look at what you've done. That can seem awkward, but you might be surprised by the positive, constructive feedback you get. I often ask my wife what she thinks about a model if I'm stuck on something, and when my mother-in-law catches glimpses of my hobby projects she usually has something nice to say.

Even though it can be disappointing to not get comments on a pic, as Polonius said, I wouldn't take a lack of comments as a negative reaction to what you're working on or a value judgement about you personally.

weeble1000 wrote:

Polonius wrote:People respond to things that interest them. It's not really an objective standard of quality, but rather that some things are easier to comment on than others.

I often ask my wife what she thinks about a model if I'm stuck on something, and when my mother-in-law catches glimpses of my hobby projects she usually has something nice to say.

When you ask your wife about your 'little figgies' does she roll her eyes back and give you that special smile like you are a three year old who just asked about his favoret toy, with the usual responce " Why yes, it looks very nice..."


Thats what my GF does when I ask her about my 'little figgies'

Hello, and welcome to the human condition.

A definite majority of people only care about one thing, primarily - themselves. There are other concerns bracketing down from that. Here on Dakka, Id imagine the interest tree would go from Person>Wargaming>Game>Forum>Army. There are people that won't read the fantasy forums because they only play 40k. There are people on Dakka that never read tactics forums, as they don't play the game. There are people that only read and reply to posts that deal with painting their army.
So the further away you get from the main interest (the readers own self) it becomes less likely that you will elicit a response. If you have an interesting technique, such as the marble effect on jetbikes thread (awesome), people will ask questions because they do not know how to render the same effect, but are interested.
Take your mosaic thread- people that posted in that are makers, who make objects like that, or people interested in using it as terrain for a wargame. You piqued those specific points of interest, and got responses based on that. A figure that is simply a different configuration of things people have seen 100 times will not ellicit much of a strong response, other than from people that are being polite. If you were to post a picture of a AOBR marine, painted to basic TTQ with a plain sand base and no other remarkable features, how many responses would that generate? Almost none. People have seen that before. Same deal if its a regular marine in a regular pose. Or a very slightly different pose, like a gun pointed in the air with no other narrative elements to the model.

A parallel here is comedians. Say you're a comedian and trying to make a group of people laugh. Poop jokes kill. Everyone poops and can relate to that, and so a joke that is tailored for lowest common denominator will do well, even though its not particularly "good". My Tyranid Pwnography thread is an example of such toilet humor. Its got an absurdly high number of views and comments- because it's models depicted in a way that no one has seen before, AND appeals to the lowest common denominator. Its not the best painting, or even converting, but it fills a niche and appeals to the primate in all of us.

But should you feel depressed? Never. Disappointed maybe, but not to the point of wanting to throw the model out. For me, modeling is a way to blow off such feelings, channeling them into a creative output. Posting it on dakka is really just a bonus, and minor ego boost when I receive replies. Its the internet, as well. Remember that, because it goes back to the original theory that people only care about themselves. In a place where there is no real accountability, and that an almost infinite well of other material is available, be happy to get any response at all.

That all said, I'm a fan of your work. It shows originality and obvious effort, please do keep it up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:
Thats what my GF does when I ask her about my 'little figgies'

Mine are called "Man dollies".
They're action figures!
Of course they are.

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:

When you ask your wife about your 'little figgies' does she roll her eyes back and give you that special smile like you are a three year old who just asked about his favoret toy, with the usual responce " Why yes, it looks very nice..."


Thats what my GF does when I ask her about my 'little figgies'

Rotflmao oh yes I get that if I ask my wife for her opinion. But I do get the odd comment every now and again from her that the colour I'm using is great or the goblins I do are cute. Having recently changed my painting style my models are no longer 'spooky'.

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:
When you ask your wife about your 'little figgies' does she roll her eyes back and give you that special smile like you are a three year old who just asked about his favoret toy, with the usual responce " Why yes, it looks very nice..."

Thats what my GF does when I ask her about my 'little figgies'

I get similar responses from my girlfriend at times for my hobbies. She tries, really. I, to be fair, do the same for her hobbies at times and try not to go into the kind of detail that causes her eyes to glaze over ("No, you see, that's the wrong gun! it's all ruined forever!") and I can't deny I've never used various "Not now" ansers when she discusses her hobbies with me "It looks fine. Uh huh. As long as you're happy with it."

I'll admit it is annoying if you dont get any replies or comments, but really all that matters is that your happy with your models and its also quite fun to look at and improve your models yourself to your personal liking

The one time i handed my Gf a Ork Warboss she dropped it ... now all that happened is it came off the base, but i wigged out. I have been with her 2 years and never said a negative thing to her but when she dropped big poppa warboss i called her quite a few names and vowed to never to let her touch them again. I know she did it on purpose , tho she swears she didn't. To make it worse when she asked if she could see it she was making it dance and saying " im a little ork wont you play with me heheheh....ooops" Grrrrr i mean WAAAAAAAAAgh

Dont worry about it. Most the people on here always expect Golden Demon worthy entries anyways. It does get a little on my nerves, mainly the 10 billion views 0 replies, thats the one that gets to me the most. If you like how my stuff looks, good Im glad someone out there likes my work, if not, then at least give a few hey try this or I would of done this part differently....you know, SOMETHING.

But yea dont let it ruin your whole day man, at least you have the courage to post your work on the internet, that is a pretty big step for someone. So keep doing what makes YOU happy, if you think your army/work looks good, then dont really worry about what everyone else thinks, and certainly dont let it ruin your whole day.

dave_salmon wrote:Bugger me, thats a bit strong Worglock.

Not really. I don't claim to be a special snowflake (I paint to what locally we consider "middle to high tabletop standard" which is models that I wont be ashamed to put on a table) and we've already established that people just don't really reply to those kind of threads.

So that would make taking pictures, uploading pictures and posting pictures kind of a waste of time doesn't it?

Worglock wrote:

dave_salmon wrote:Bugger me, thats a bit strong Worglock.

Not really. I don't claim to be a special snowflake (I paint to what locally we consider "middle to high tabletop standard" which is models that I wont be ashamed to put on a table) and we've already established that people just don't really reply to those kind of threads.

So that would make taking pictures, uploading pictures and posting pictures kind of a waste of time doesn't it?

It depends on what you're actually looking for when you post/upload pictures. If you're looking for actual feedback/criticism and you ask specific questions, then you can often get great feedback. If you're just looking for people to say 'great job' then yes, there is little point.

But beyond that, putting up images of your models helps to show what kind of hobbyist you are, to help form a bit of an online persona that others can relate to. So even if people don't comment on your threads, by having put up pics, lots of people *do* view those threads and if they're in your gallery then people can go and look at the gallery and see your stuff as well.

Sure you can do the same thing on a personal blog, but as with anything, that has some positives and some negatives associated with it. On the positive, it tends to be a much more robust way to show off a complete collection of your images, but on the down-side, unless people know about your blog, they won't necessarily find them.


And as for this forum being filled with terrible people, any community of this size is basically just a representative of the community as a whole. So while there are most certainly plenty of terrible people from your perspective, there also must be an equal number of great people as well.

Chin up old sport
Haven't read all the responses here (apologies am very tired atm) but Warspawned seems to nail it IMHO

I find that generally speaking I can guarantee the sound of crickets singing their sweet song of empty, lonely places if I post work.

But since I tend not to trawl through the P&M forum it can be pot luck whether I catch something and then there will be no guarantee I feel I have anything to add.

Must try to get around to checking out work more diligently

Polonius wrote:People respond to things that interest them. It's not really an objective standard of quality, but rather that some things are easier to comment on than others.

+1

I see EVERYTHING that goes into the gallery but I really only look at the stuff that catches my interest which either means one of the esoteric armies I love (Arbites, Genestealer cults) or something interesting and new.

There's lots of good stuff that's fine, even great, but not interesting.

Asking a question helps get comments, you could try that.

Ok so i spent hours making a painting blog lots of views almost no comments, and some of the people that commented i knew. So just to see how angry i could make myself I made a joke of a post asking if they got the name Ork from Pork....Couldnt really care more about the answer but it had 25 posts in half hour before a mod that was afraid i said racism and locked it.

I was pissed, not because it got locked due to spam which is kinda funny, but because it took me literally 1 min to PS a waaaagh on Hurley and has more comments then any of my other posts. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/394216.page

Also i know my mini's aren't the best but i see soooo many more that have pages and pages of comments that look like they dippped them in the pot and said hey evey one come see how good i look......is 420 in my name whats doing it , or people click link, don't read the first line or two, scroll down and see old ass smurfs and click back.

Really grinds my gears.

You'll get more replies and comments by posting a picture of an empty 25mm base with a brass rod drilled into it with a sign reading "AWESOME CONVERSION is going to go here!!"

Than you will by posting an entire painted army.

Why do people comment more on stuff that hasn't even been started? Perhaps everyone has an imgination and likes the mystery involved. Normally those threads sit for a year with no update because there are a lot more "idea people" compared to "People who finish stuff" when it comes to this hobby

Also, I suppose, a finished product.. is well a finiished product so not all that fun to comment on since its well.. done.

Would it be nice if people actually commented on finished projects rather than projects that probably will never even get started? Yeah.. but I've gotten used to it since Im more of a "finisher" and I simply post things in my gallery for myself

If people comment, thats cool.. If not well it doesnt matter since Im posting things more for organization

Jimsolo wrote:So I've noticed that if I post up pics of a model on the boards, if I come home and there is no responses, it just kills my whole day. I feel like throwing the fig away and quitting the whole hobby. Obviously I'm not going to, but that crap just crushes my soul. Anyone else feel like this when they share their work and don't get a good response? Or am I the only one?

So you are in this hobby to get gratification from people?

Yes....a little to keep me going.


Are you on dakka to read thru posts so you can troll/flame/be a phallus?....second thread today where you were condescending.