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Grey Templar wrote:
said robot took a custode out with it and the Guardsmen weren't hostile at that point IIRC

The Guardsmen were under orders to kill the Custodes. They had difficulties doing this after the number of their bodies that ineffectively attacked just one Custode was chocking the corridors making it impossible to get to them.

hmmm, guess I was wrong.

still, in narrow corridors, heavily armored warriors vs light, the heavy wins.

orginaly only 3 custodes died in the Seige of Terra. they were being used as front line troops at that point.
considering how stong they are, the armour they wear, their psychic null-ness and their training i would say they would beat SM hands down

redkommando wrote:orginaly only 3 custodes died in the Seige of Terra. they were being used as front line troops at that point.
considering how stong they are, the armour they wear, their psychic null-ness and their training i would say they would beat SM hands down

Source? And they aren't nulls.

Custodes are a step up from a Space Marine in almost every way, but this is a small step up. They aren't anywhere close to the power of a Primarch, and they have ones major disadvantage, their individuality, which causes them to fight as individuals and not as a cohesive unit. The First Heretic has a section in which an Asartes says he wouldn't know who to bet on if a Custode and an Astartes were to fight.

Grey Templar wrote:In First Heretic, 3 Custodes get their asses handed to them by 10 posessed marines. Posessed who had been already killed by Corax and then came back to life.

The Custodes kill 3 out of 8. Admittedly they are possessed, but they don't attack in unison, so seems to be 1v1.

Asherian Command wrote:
Why does everyone forget about the Reign of blood?

The Custodians didn't do much at all in the Reign of Blood, to stay pure they locked themselves away deep within the Palace, only a small group did anything and that was only to take Alicia Dominica to the Emperor.

Custodes are nothing compared to Primarchs. This one instance of Horus being beated by Valdor is the only instance of a Custodes beating a Primarch. What's the source of this anyway as I've never been able to find it. Maybe Horus knew that he would have to take a dive to get Russ on side?

i alwats get reminded of jedi when i think of custodes

We also have one custodian in The First Heretic killing 2 captains and a chaplain in 3 swings.

DarknessEternal wrote:The custodian in the First Heretic certainly thought he was able to subdue a Primarch all on his own.

I don't think so, he certainly didn't think he could personally subdue him. They represented the authority of the Emperor and felt Lorgar would simply submit to it as before. At this point, the very idea that a Primarch would disobey the Emperor was ludicrous.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarknessEternal wrote:We also have one custodian in The First Heretic killing 2 captains and a chaplain in 3 swings.

This also never, ever happened. As per usual of your posts in the background section, you are just pulling stuff out of your ass.

The only time the Custodes crossed blades with the Word Bearers was at the very end. It was 3 Custodes vs. 8 Gal Vorbak. One Custodes killed one Gal Vorbak, only to get mauled by a pair. One of those stopped to feed on the body, so was easy prey for Aquillon (the Custodians' leader), who killed the Word Bearer seconds before his head and spine got torn out Predator-style. The last Custodes threw away his weapon to kill the Chaplain as a last defiant action.

DrChaos wrote:i alwats get reminded of jedi when i think of custodes

I always get reminded of janitors.

The true face of Constantine Valdor.

Omegus wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:We also have one custodian in The First Heretic killing 2 captains and a chaplain in 3 swings.

This also never, ever happened. As per usual of your posts in the background section, you are just pulling stuff out of your ass.

The only time the Custodes crossed blades with the Word Bearers was at the very end. It was 3 Custodes vs. 8 Gal Vorbak. One Custodes killed one Gal Vorbak, only to get mauled by a pair. One of those stopped to feed on the body, so was easy prey for Aquillon (the Custodians' leader), who killed the Word Bearer seconds before his head and spine got torn out Predator-style. The last Custodes threw away his weapon to kill the Chaplain as a last defiant action.

Eternal does have it right, it happens on Cadia where Ingethel is doing her dance thing. But Vendatha only manages to kill three because no one actually expects him to commit suicide, it's him vs a Primarch and a whole bunch of marines.

First Heretic p253
Lorgar was at ease ... he actually expected his offer of truce to hold some weight

Two captains and a Chaplain isn't quite right IIRC. It was one captain, and two marines, who weren't actually fighting back. What happened to this Custode again?

iproxtaco wrote:Two captains and a Chaplain isn't quite right IIRC. It was one captain, and two marines, who weren't actually fighting back. What happened to this Custode again?

Sorry proxy, that part I don't know, personally I thought they were just normal guys and no they didn't fight back, they just were kinda I meant Eternal was right in the regard of what happened, not necessarily who was involved.

I stand corrected. Vendatha took out a Chaplain, a Captain, and a Chapter Master who were on guard in the span of three seconds. DE still has a tendency to pull stuff out of his ass though, so I'll consider this moment of lucidity on his part a fluke!

As for what happened to Vendatha, he got shot in the face, then got stabbed in the face, and still having survived this shooting+stabbing, got impaled to be the final sacrifice of their demonic ritual.

Omegus wrote:I stand corrected. Vendatha took out a Chaplain, a Captain, and a Chapter Master who were on guard in the span of three seconds.

Yeah, but I think he definitely had the element of surprise here. If they were expecting one dude to take on a whole Legion on his Billy then they probably would have anticipated him doing something insane and stupid. These Custodes are quite suicidal in their devotion to the Emperor, the whole Blood Games thing, taking on Primarchs, taking on Legions... each one is a 40k James Bond.

In First Heretic, some Word Bearers are observing the Custodians fighting style and find that there is something wrong with it. then they realize that its that the Custodians are not fighting together as a cohesive unit, but rather as individuals and that their style is 100% geared towards that.

was going to mention the same exact thing....

Pilau Rice wrote:

Omegus wrote:I stand corrected. Vendatha took out a Chaplain, a Captain, and a Chapter Master who were on guard in the span of three seconds.

Yeah, but I think he definitely had the element of surprise here.

The element of surprise? He warned them that he was going to kill them, they got out their weapons, then he killed them.

How did he surprise them?

These weren't newbies on their first day. These were the best of the best of the Word Bearers and they got chumped.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:

Omegus wrote:I stand corrected. Vendatha took out a Chaplain, a Captain, and a Chapter Master who were on guard in the span of three seconds.

Yeah, but I think he definitely had the element of surprise here.

The element of surprise? He warned them that he was going to kill them, they got out their weapons, then he killed them.

How did he surprise them?

These weren't newbies on their first day. These were the best of the best of the Word Bearers and they got chumped.

Caught by surprise wasn't exactly the best term to use. They simply stood there not expecting an actual attack. Lorgar believed the Custode would back down, hence why they weren't guarding themselves.

iproxtaco wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:

Omegus wrote:I stand corrected. Vendatha took out a Chaplain, a Captain, and a Chapter Master who were on guard in the span of three seconds.

Yeah, but I think he definitely had the element of surprise here.

The element of surprise? He warned them that he was going to kill them, they got out their weapons, then he killed them.

How did he surprise them?

These weren't newbies on their first day. These were the best of the best of the Word Bearers and they got chumped.

Caught by surprise wasn't exactly the best term to use. They simply stood there not expecting an actual attack. Lorgar believed the Custode would back down, hence why they weren't guarding themselves.

That's on them then, for underestimating their opponent. Which is a very very stupid thing to do.

iproxtaco wrote:
Caught by surprise wasn't exactly the best term to use. They simply stood there not expecting an actual attack. Lorgar believed the Custode would back down, hence why they weren't guarding themselves.

These guys had 200 years of combat experience in the harshest battles known to the Imperium. They were the elite of space marines. Stop making excuses that aren't plausible.

DarknessEternal wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:
Caught by surprise wasn't exactly the best term to use. They simply stood there not expecting an actual attack. Lorgar believed the Custode would back down, hence why they weren't guarding themselves.

These guys had 200 years of combat experience in the harshest battles known to the Imperium. They were the elite of space marines. Stop making excuses that aren't plausible.

Well that's what's in the book. They weren't on guard, whilst the Custode was, hence the Custode already had an advantage. Of course, they were outmatched by an opponent that was superior in the situation, notably, the Custode was better with he spear in the close=in environment than the Marines were, but it simply wasn't a straight up fight. As has been said though, he was subdued by coordinated bolter fire.

What are the origins of the Custodes' geneseed?

The Big E, I think.

thunderingjove wrote:What are the origins of the Custodes' geneseed?

It isn't even said that they have geneseed.

They're Custodes, rather than Astartes, so they quite probably don't.

There's a few tidbits about how they're "genetic scrap" and created individually rather than in batches like the Astartes.

iproxtaco wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:
Caught by surprise wasn't exactly the best term to use. They simply stood there not expecting an actual attack. Lorgar believed the Custode would back down, hence why they weren't guarding themselves.

These guys had 200 years of combat experience in the harshest battles known to the Imperium. They were the elite of space marines. Stop making excuses that aren't plausible.

Well that's what's in the book. They weren't on guard, whilst the Custode was, hence the Custode already had an advantage. Of course, they were outmatched by an opponent that was superior in the situation, notably, the Custode was better with he spear in the close=in environment than the Marines were, but it simply wasn't a straight up fight. As has been said though, he was subdued by coordinated bolter fire.

I have to agree with Darkness here, they were not "surprised" by any stretch of imagination. And before he jumped at them, he actually fired a burst at Lorgar (which Argel Tal knocked out of the air ninja style, somehow). So no, these high-ranking officers of the Word Bearers were on guard, they had their weapons trained on their enemy, and he gave them warning of his attack by attacking their Primarch, and he still pureed three of them in three seconds before one of them finally found the presence of mind to pull the trigger, blowing his face off.

Question: How do we know it took him exactly 3 seconds to do this?

Omegus wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:
Caught by surprise wasn't exactly the best term to use. They simply stood there not expecting an actual attack. Lorgar believed the Custode would back down, hence why they weren't guarding themselves.

These guys had 200 years of combat experience in the harshest battles known to the Imperium. They were the elite of space marines. Stop making excuses that aren't plausible.

Well that's what's in the book. They weren't on guard, whilst the Custode was, hence the Custode already had an advantage. Of course, they were outmatched by an opponent that was superior in the situation, notably, the Custode was better with he spear in the close=in environment than the Marines were, but it simply wasn't a straight up fight. As has been said though, he was subdued by coordinated bolter fire.

I have to agree with Darkness here, they were not "surprised" by any stretch of imagination. And before he jumped at them, he actually fired a burst at Lorgar (which Argel Tal knocked out of the air ninja style, somehow). So no, these high-ranking officers of the Word Bearers were on guard, they had their weapons trained on their enemy, and he gave them warning of his attack by attacking their Primarch, and he still pureed three of them in three seconds before one of them finally found the presence of mind to pull the trigger, blowing his face off.

It wasn't a surprise attack, I guess they were surprised that Vendatha actually went through with it. You can still be on guard and expecting something to happen, but be surprised when it does, that's my thoughts on it anyway.

First Heretic p253
Lorgar was at ease ... he actually expected his offer of truce to hold some weight

They also weren't ordered by Lorgar to kill the Custodes, if they were then Vendatha would have been put down before he could kill anyone. Argel Tal, is a bit more of a free thinker and actually acted himself.

They are still warriors with centuries of experience, and this guy was pointing his weapon at their Primarch. Even if they didn't think he would go through with it, blasting a full-auto burst at their Primarch should have definitely put them on their toes if they weren't already. I mean, a Space Marine's reaction time is what, milliseconds? It certainly wasn't enough in this case.

Lorgar was at ease, sure, but he was also a putz.