Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Pit bulls, like several other breeds, are predisposed to aggression. This of course varies from dog to dog (and breed to breed as there are several pit bull breeds), but on average pit bulls will be more aggressive than, say, Labradors. They're what breeders and other dog types call an "advanced breed" in that they require a practiced and disciplined owner to safely keep.

They are, however, somewhat unique in that they are one of the few relatively small dogs fitting in that category for reasons of aggression. As such, while difficult to control, they are not as difficult to control as this fluffy death machine.

Ouze wrote:

Sasori wrote:While I generally agree on the front that a dogs temperament comes mostly from how an owner trains and treats their dogs, the issue of Pit bulls going out of control seems to be a lot more common, and I think indicative of an issue with the breed as well.

It's also possible that it simply is more widely reported, since "child mauled by a dachshund" isn't as sensationalistic and won't drive traffic as well.

It's well documented that a lot of smaller breed dogs are much more aggressive and more likely to bite than some of the other larger dogs that have a bad reputation (Dobermans, German Shepards etc) but the fact is a Pekingese despite being aggressive and prone to biting, can't bite with 235 pounds of force like a Pitt bull can.

I just don't see the point in owning a pitbull.

Sure, they can be kind, and great with the kids, but so can just about any other dog.

Like any dog, there's a chance, very small but always there no matter what, that something will set it off and it'll snap. With a lot of breeds, particularly toys, this might give a kid a fright, but it won't hurt anyone, in some breeds it won't even draw blood. In most cases you'll get a bite, and if you're unlucky some scarring. It sucks, but at least you're still here. With a pitbull, if it freaks out it can kill.

You can have any dog in the world, why pick the one that might just kill somebody?

Blah Blah Blah Pits are insane ...Its the owners i have been owner up to 4 Pitbulls at one time and they are all cuddlebugs they have never turned on me or another human being or me or another animal ever because they were looked after loved and trained not to be crazy they have at worse tried to fight each other over a chip or piece of food that fell on the floor. Pitbulls are loyal and friendly animals but they at the end of the day are a animal and animals can act out

Field Marshal Wiley wrote:Blah Blah Blah Pits are insane ...Its the owners i have been owner up to 4 Pitbulls at one time and they are all cuddlebugs they have never turned on me or another human being or me or another animal ever because they were looked after loved and trained not to be crazy they have at worse tried to fight each other over a chip or piece of food that fell on the floor. Pitbulls are loyal and friendly animals but they at the end of the day are a animal and animals can act out

Yes, they can act out, like any dog can act out... so why have a dog that is much more capable of killing you if it ever does act out?

I mean, the Ford Pinto got you from A to B like any other car, and was no more likely get in an accident. It's just that when it did get in an accident, it had a habit of exploding. Now, you'd be a goddamn idiot to say 'sure, but only if it got in an accident, and all the people I know who own Pintos never got in accidents'. Why is dog ownership any different?

Because Jerks make jerk dogs i lived with a guy who was into weight training and trying to make guard dogs...But i kicked him out for not paying rent and guess what the scumbag left his two dogs and after less than 4 month of rehab at not being aggressive they became calm dogs and Once again never turned on me or any one of my friends or children or cats or anything. Why do i want to have a pit because i love big dogs and i love pits

Field Marshal wrote:they are all cuddlebugs they have never turned on me or another human being or me or another animal ever because they were looked after loved and trained not to be crazy they have at worse tried to fight each other over a chip or piece of food that fell on the floor. Pitbulls are loyal and friendly animals

You realize of course this is the same the thing this couple would have said right up to the point that they stopped being a couple and he became a widower. No one says "Well even though we spent a lot of time training them and they are always friendly soon they will kill one of us".

dogma wrote:Pit bulls, like several other breeds, are predisposed to aggression. This of course varies from dog to dog (and breed to breed as there are several pit bull breeds), but on average pit bulls will be more aggressive than, say, Labradors. They're what breeders and other dog types call an "advanced breed" in that they require a practiced and disciplined owner to safely keep.

They are, however, somewhat unique in that they are one of the few relatively small dogs fitting in that category for reasons of aggression. As such, while difficult to control, they are not as difficult to control as this fluffy death machine.

That is not a dog, that is a Z-Critter!

Ahtman wrote:No one says "Well even though we spent a lot of time training them and they are always friendly soon they will kill one of us".

But Ahtman, it won't happen to me.

Ahtman ever owned a pit then i dont wanna hear it i have had little dogs tear me up more than a random street dog

I don't think that the owners in this case raised the dogs to be malevolent, and I doubt that if they were in a group that advocated pit bulls that they would even condone any behavior that would cause the dogs to act out.

This is just one of those times when some people were raising pit bulls right but still got the short end of the straw when it came to owning a homicidal animal. Its a shame that she died and that their unborn child died, but I think that the husband is a complete and utter nutbag who probably values the life of some animal over a human being's. Of course that's just an assumption so I can't be too sure if that's true.

My dog Hazel not crazy not insane not a drop of violence in her she is not eatin my Hounddogs face off. My other 3 ..1 died from old age the other 2 given to good homes. Get a pit raise it right quit the pit hating hype


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I agree that it is terrible what happened to the women and her child sometimes yeah a animal cannot be converted but if it was a rescue you never know what that animal went through before they got a hold of em.

When I was five years old my Uncles neighbors German Shepard went after me, bit my leg and bit the back of my neck .
Since then I've owned German Shepard's, just because a type of dog goes bat gak doesn't make the whole breed a pack of murderous creatures.

FITZZ wrote: When I was five years old my Uncles neighbors German Shepard went after me, bit my leg and bit the back of my neck .
Since then I've owned German Shepard's, just because a type of dog goes bat gak doesn't make the whole breed a pack of murderous creatures.

Its not just that though unfortunately. Pit Bulls were bred for their temperament and ability to kill other animals just like German Shepherds were trained to do certain things, and why miniature dachshunds have curved tails. Interesting story those dachshunds, bred to go after badgers and rabbits so the long curved tail was so that the owners could pull them out of a hole or find them in tall grass.

But Pit Bulls were trained to kill other animals, its their genetics. It can be bypassed and maybe diluted away over time, but until then I don't trust most of them. I've had a German shepherd bite me on the inner thigh once but not because it was a mean dog, but because he was damn set on catching a water balloon my brother thought would be hilarious if he tossed it at my groin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergeant_Stubby

I don't like German sheps at all they are more aggressive than any Pit i have ever met.

The German Shepherd I had would get in between the kids my mom babysat and their mother if she was going to spank them.

http://www.eagleid.com/veterans/dogs.htm

I see a lot of German Shepherds on there.

Even Poodles were made to kills rats N hunt ducks . The point is do not raise them to kill. Dalmatians were used to clear roads IE attack people and keep horses in time when rich people ran into town. I own a Dalmatian as well and he has given me more problems than any pit i had

Field Marshal Wiley wrote:Blah Blah Blah Pits are insane ...Its the owners i have been owner up to 4 Pitbulls at one time and they are all cuddlebugs they have never turned on me or another human being or me or another animal ever because they were looked after loved and trained not to be crazy they have at worse tried to fight each other over a chip or piece of food that fell on the floor. Pitbulls are loyal and friendly animals but they at the end of the day are a animal and animals can act out

The thing is though that, if you really want to advocate the merits of an animal, you must accept it weaknesses as well. Pit bulls can be good dogs, but they require experienced owners to be so, and still present a higher risk profile than, say, a Corgi. They aren't Labs, Beagles, or Cairns.

halonachos wrote:

FITZZ wrote: When I was five years old my Uncles neighbors German Shepard went after me, bit my leg and bit the back of my neck .
Since then I've owned German Shepard's, just because a type of dog goes bat gak doesn't make the whole breed a pack of murderous creatures.

Its not just that though unfortunately. Pit Bulls were bred for their temperament and ability to kill other animals just like German Shepherds were trained to do certain things, and why miniature dachshunds have curved tails. Interesting story those dachshunds, bred to go after badgers and rabbits so the long curved tail was so that the owners could pull them out of a hole or find them in tall grass.

But Pit Bulls were trained to kill other animals, its their genetics. It can be bypassed and maybe diluted away over time, but until then I don't trust most of them. I've had a German shepherd bite me on the inner thigh once but not because it was a mean dog, but because he was damn set on catching a water balloon my brother thought would be hilarious if he tossed it at my groin.

Genetics aside, I loved my Pits and found them to be two of the best dogs I ever owned, I'd get another but due to all the " Pit Bulls are Murder machines" hype My Missus is scared of them and won't have one...
Of course she'll fawn over some useless spin in circles and yap Poodle...who's more likely to bite you.

Or Cocker Spaniels .

Field Marshal Wiley wrote:Even Poodles were made to kills rats N hunt ducks . The point is do not raise them to kill. Dalmatians were used to clear roads IE attack people and keep horses in time when rich people ran into town. I own a Dalmatian as well and he has given me more problems than any pit i had

Again, with the attention necessary to counter genetics, and some luck, any dog can be made to do just about anything, but you have to recognize that there is a difference between being a good Lab owner, and a good Pit Bull owner.

Just because someone advocates something- doesnt mean they have the vaguest idea of what they are doing. Dogs are like guns, cars, and children. If you dont know how to properly take care of them- you shouldnt have them. The story of the woman, baby and dog is tragic, but likely could have been avoided.

A few months ago two puppies turned up at my back door. They were starved and dehydrated. Theyre also boxer/pit bull mixes. Despite being abnadoned by some jerk off in hte desert, theyre sweet little dogs. The only thing they terrorize is the occasional lizard in the back yard and my water hose. I couldnt find their owners, so I kept them. Im thier pack leader, and even with thier puppy enthusiasm theyve never even broken my skin with thier rough housing play time. I respect what they are capable of, theyve chewed through a 2x4 in less than 10 minutes. But Im never afraid of them because I trust them and what I have trained & taught them to do.

Pound for pound, the little terrier breeds are somewhere around 2 or 3 times more likely to bite people. But everyone thinks its cute. Then they try to raise a bigger animal the same way and at surprise when it does what it was bred to do. Terrier breeds were literally bred to kill other fierce little critters like rats, weasels and badgers. You have to make them act like a dog foremost, and thier breed a distant second. Only 3 dogs have ever tried to bite me. A weiner dog- which is common. And a golden retriever and an Akita- neither of which are breeds noted for aggression in the media. Its also worth noting, the CDC study on dog bites lists them as 'pit bull type' which covers a large number of dogs most people would consider mutts. This means 'pit bull type' is very much a catch all category for dogs that happen to have pit bull physical traits but are predominantly another breed in genetic terms. People like easy labels to lay the blame on when something scares them.

I dont judge dogs by breed anymore than I judge people by race or religion. They have individual merits and flaws that define them.

And to properly quote Cesar Milan "I rehabilitate dogs. I train people." Generally people do not know what to do with a dog, and that instills bad behavioral patterns. The most frequent is giving too much affection and not enough discipline.

FITZZ wrote:
Of course she'll fawn over some useless spin in circles and yap Poodle...who's more likely to bite you.

Meh, its more about who is more likely to bite you seriously. Minis bite, just like all dogs, but its just annoying; at worst. Pits bite and mean it.

Its the difference between Mike Tyson and a 10 year-old girl.

FITZZ wrote:

halonachos wrote:

FITZZ wrote: When I was five years old my Uncles neighbors German Shepard went after me, bit my leg and bit the back of my neck .
Since then I've owned German Shepard's, just because a type of dog goes bat gak doesn't make the whole breed a pack of murderous creatures.

Its not just that though unfortunately. Pit Bulls were bred for their temperament and ability to kill other animals just like German Shepherds were trained to do certain things, and why miniature dachshunds have curved tails. Interesting story those dachshunds, bred to go after badgers and rabbits so the long curved tail was so that the owners could pull them out of a hole or find them in tall grass.

But Pit Bulls were trained to kill other animals, its their genetics. It can be bypassed and maybe diluted away over time, but until then I don't trust most of them. I've had a German shepherd bite me on the inner thigh once but not because it was a mean dog, but because he was damn set on catching a water balloon my brother thought would be hilarious if he tossed it at my groin.

Genetics aside, I loved my Pits and found them to be two of the best dogs I ever owned, I'd get another but due to all the " Pit Bulls are Murder machines" hype My Missus is scared of them and won't have one...
Of course she'll fawn over some useless spin in circles and yap Poodle...who's more likely to bite you.

Personally I prefer something that can only bite me as opposed to something that could tear me a new one. I think that its just something that needs to be carefully weened out of the breed over time, mix them with some really tame dog like a basset hound or what have you. But its not like this the only time some body has advocated the genocide of a species of canines. During WW1 people stoned Dachshunds because they were a German breed, but after awhile germans began to immigrate to America again and they brought back dachshunds(which were owned mostly by sausage vendors in some areas).

dogma wrote:

FITZZ wrote:
Of course she'll fawn over some useless spin in circles and yap Poodle...who's more likely to bite you.

Meh, its more about who is more likely to bite you seriously. Minis bite, just like all dogs, but its just annoying; at worst. Pits bite and mean it.

Its the difference between Mike Tyson and a 10 year-old girl.

...That's true...and I'd be lying if I said part of my love for my Pits wasn't due to the fact that they could " bite and mean it" if it came to that...
But they were both so gentle it surprised me some times when people came over and got nervous about being around them.

I suspect the dog in the original linked story was quite photogenic and gentle and the owners probably posted online about how awesome their dog specifically and the breed in general is since they were so active in their local pit bull association and since it apparently slept on their bed. They might have been correct right up until the night it snapped and killed its owner (and her unborn child).

A pitbull came within inches of mauling my arm when it lunged through a half open window as I unknowingly walked by its car parked in front of a store two months ago. It too was described by the owner as gentle and he was shocked that the dog would do something like that unprovoked (and insinuated I did something to provoke it). As it was pinned at the chest half way out of the car by the partly rolled up window snapping at me viciously, I didn't get that impression. The ONLY thing that saved me was that the car was parked in a handicapped spot so my mom and I had room to walk 2 feet away from the car towards the store's front door. If it had been the normal mall parking lot distance between cars, I would have been severely injured by that "gentle" creature as I did nothing but unknowingly walk by its car. In the end, it's a domesticated animal breed which has more recently been specifically (in)bred for aggression. Even the "perfect" owner can't be with the dog 100% of the time and all it takes for a strong, powerful dog is to suddenly attack once for a tragedy like the above to occur.

So i am just a lucky one who has never been ripped apart by the 4 pits i have lived with seems like a hundred percent chance i should be dead by now but whatever AMERICAN TERRIERS /PITS will just kill you. Until you own one i don't wanna hear your opinion

Mistress of minis wrote:Its also worth noting, the CDC study on dog bites lists them as 'pit bull type' which covers a large number of dogs most people would consider mutts. This means 'pit bull type' is very much a catch all category for dogs that happen to have pit bull physical traits but are predominantly another breed in genetic terms.

Pit Bull type basically just means "fighting dog" in all classifications.

As a side note on the whole traits thing, German Shepherds are used by the US military for the reason that they are usually moderately aggressive but are also usually loyal, intelligent, easy to train, and more importantly are predictable. A pit bull and a german shepherd could easily kill someone, its just that a german shepherd has less of a chance of actually trying to in most cases.

So maybe breed a pit bull with a german shepherd and over time the traits will transfer over.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Field Marshal Wiley wrote:So i am just a lucky one who has never been ripped apart by the 4 pits i have lived with seems like a hundred percent chance i should be dead by now but whatever AMERICAN TERRIERS /PITS will just kill you. Until you own one i don't wanna hear your opinion

Rottweilers are better.

Field Marshal Wiley wrote:So i am just a lucky one who has never been ripped apart by the 4 pits i have lived with seems like a hundred percent chance i should be dead by now but whatever AMERICAN TERRIERS /PITS will just kill you. Until you own one i don't wanna hear your opinion

Yes, surround yourself in that wall of ignorance, pay no attention to anything you don't feel yourself; despite being on a website based on doing the opposite.