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DarknessEternal wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:
The Custodes were outnumbered true but nor was their any unison in the attack, and they were hardly unprepared, they had been fighting their way throughout the ship, they knew full well that they were in a woeful situation.

And in the same book, one custode kills 3 high ranking Word Bearers.

Consistency isn't part of the 40k universe.

You would like to think it was, especially in the same book and not one by Goto.

iproxtaco wrote:I loved that thread. I had a really nice point by point explanation of everything but I didn't post it for some reason. Although I agree, there's a lot of hyperbole and generally ludicrous statements.
A Custode is slightly better in most ways to an Astartes, due to his individuality, barring their inability to work together.

Considerably better. In The First Heretic, a custodes kills a WB Chapter Master, Captain, chaplain and a few battle brothers before they could even draw their weapons, and they only got the chance to draw because he stopped to press charges and find a non-violent resolution.

Then they poured a full bolter mag into him, stabbed his face with power weapons, and impale him bottom-up with a pike, and he was still alive.

Also, same book, four custodes killed all the navy armsmen on an entire battle-barge, no casualties.

And also, the main character from that book (forget his name), a CHAPTER MASTER, was unable to beat a custodes in a sparring match.

Custodes are to Astartes what Astartes are to guardmen. Astartes would not be worthy of becoming the Emperor's praetorians.

Plus their equipment is considerably better than that which astartes possess.


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Pilau Rice wrote:

Simo429 wrote:In collected visions i'm fairly sure it says that Custodes are to Astartes as the Emperor is to his Primarchs.

This to me suggests fairly heavily that it is known that the Custodes are more powerful than the Astartes.

At the end of First Heretic the Custodes are outnumbered, unprepared and the astartes have had the benefit of watching them for 50 years and preparing for this, they are also daemon spawn.

If this is the case then I will make an attempt at eating Collected Visions.

The Custodes were outnumbered true but nor was their any unison in the attack, and they were hardly unprepared, they had been fighting their way throughout the ship, they knew full well that they were in a woeful situation.

Spoiler:

Nirallus slays Malnor. Aquillon slays Sicar, who is feeding on Nirallus, and Sythron kills Xaphen.

Of the Eleven possessed word bearers who attacked, one of which was a chapter master, on of which was a captain, 7 died. The custodes (3) had just come from owning all the navy armsmen on the entire ship, And still used their ownage sauce. Also, only two custodes there had firearms.

im2randomghgh wrote:
Considerably better. In The First Heretic, a custodes kills a WB Chapter Master, Captain, chaplain and a few battle brothers before they could even draw their weapons, and they only got the chance to draw because he stopped to press charges and find a non-violent resolution.

Are you reading a different version of the book to everyone else? He killed 3 no more. He's lucky he got the chance to kill 3, if Lorgar had wanted him dead he would have just said kill him rather than have given him any sort of offer of survival.

im2randomghgh wrote:Then they poured a full bolter mag into him, stabbed his face with power weapons, and impale him bottom-up with a pike, and he was still alive.

Like you keep saying. He died shortly after he was impaled though.

im2randomghgh wrote:Also, same book, four custodes killed all the navy armsmen on an entire battle-barge, no casualties.

Pretty sure you're wrong here as well.

im2randomghgh wrote:And also, the main character from that book (forget his name), a CHAPTER MASTER, was unable to beat a custodes in a sparring match.

Aquillion is not a bog standard Custodes, he's the one chosen to be the Occuli Imperator, he should be able to beat an Astartes.

im2randomghgh wrote:Custodes are to Astartes what Astartes are to guardmen. Astartes would not be worthy of becoming the Emperor's praetorians.

And a Custodes wouldn't be worthy of becoming a Grey Knight.

im2randomghgh wrote:Plus their equipment is considerably better than that which astartes possess.

I thought you would ignore the quote I provided on the Grey Knights having the best equipment, so here it is again.

The Grey Knights are, first and foremost, a Space Marine Chapter, but there are surprisingly few similarities between them and the other Adeptus Astartes. First among equals, the Grey Knights utilise the very finest equipment that the Mechanicum of Mars have to offer, vehicles and weaponry so esoteric and rare that they are reserved exclusively for their use. It is rumoured that the Grey Knights share a genetic heritage with the Emperor himself in the same way as other Adeptus Astartes do with their Primarch

im2randomghgh wrote:Of the Eleven possessed word bearers who attacked, one of which was a chapter master, on of which was a captain, 7 died. The custodes (3) had just come from owning all the navy armsmen on the entire ship, And still used their ownage sauce. Also, only two custodes there had firearms.

Argel Tal mentions that after the deaths of Malnor and Sicar there are 6 remaining Gal Vorbak. Where you are pulling these numbers from I can only guess.

im2randomghgh wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:I loved that thread. I had a really nice point by point explanation of everything but I didn't post it for some reason. Although I agree, there's a lot of hyperbole and generally ludicrous statements.
A Custode is slightly better in most ways to an Astartes, due to his individuality, barring their inability to work together.

Considerably better. In The First Heretic, a custodes kills a WB Chapter Master, Captain, chaplain and a few battle brothers before they could even draw their weapons, and they only got the chance to draw because he stopped to press charges and find a non-violent resolution.

That's been discussed in the other thread about the Custodes. He kills three, yes, he does not go on to kill more after being subbdued by bolter fire. He does not slow down, he does not stop. The Word Bearers were the ones trying to press for a non-violent resolution, so weren't exactly in the same ready stance. Still, impressive feet that does prove they're better than your average Astartes.

Then they poured a full bolter mag into him, stabbed his face with power weapons, and impale him bottom-up with a pike, and he was still alive.

And used him as a sacrifice. After that bolter magazine, he was already incapacitated. Argel Tal came to end his suffering.

Also, same book, four custodes killed all the navy armsmen on an entire battle-barge, no casualties.

Three. One was killed by Incarnadine, which isn't a measure of Astartes versus Cutode, just to clarify. They did not kill the entire complement, although they killed a significant amount. I'm certain that Astartes could do the same, see Soul Hunter and Blood Reaver.

And also, the main character from that book (forget his name), a CHAPTER MASTER, was unable to beat a custodes in a sparring match.

One on one sparring is meaningless, I'm sure we agree that Cutodes are more skilled in that respect. And Argel Tal was a captain. As Chapter Master, he defeated Aquillon, although again, this is not a measure of Astartes versus Custode, as Argel Tal was possessed at this time.

Custodes are to Astartes what Astartes are to guardmen. Astartes would not be worthy of becoming the Emperor's praetorians.

Hyperbole, therefore meaningless.

Plus their equipment is considerably better than that which astartes possess.

Source? It's certainly a bit better, but considerably is quite a strong word to use.

Pilau Rice wrote:

Simo429 wrote:In collected visions i'm fairly sure it says that Custodes are to Astartes as the Emperor is to his Primarchs.

This to me suggests fairly heavily that it is known that the Custodes are more powerful than the Astartes.

At the end of First Heretic the Custodes are outnumbered, unprepared and the astartes have had the benefit of watching them for 50 years and preparing for this, they are also daemon spawn.

If this is the case then I will make an attempt at eating Collected Visions.

The Custodes were outnumbered true but nor was their any unison in the attack, and they were hardly unprepared, they had been fighting their way throughout the ship, they knew full well that they were in a woeful situation.

Spoiler:

Nirallus slays Malnor. Aquillon slays Sicar, who is feeding on Nirallus, and Sythron kills Xaphen.

Of the Eleven possessed word bearers who attacked, one of which was a chapter master, on of which was a captain, 7 died. The custodes (3) had just come from owning all the navy armsmen on the entire ship, And still used their ownage sauce. Also, only two custodes there had firearms.

Attacked the Custodes? Nope. As is detailed by Pilau Rice, three died on both sides. But yet again, these Astartes are Possessed, so the point is irrelevant.
But also, the entire crew complement was not killed. Firearms are also meaningless, as the Possessed did not use any either.

Lol, I wondered how long it would be before im2randomghgh started baiting SM (particularly GK players) again.

Simo429 wrote:In collected visions i'm fairly sure it says that Custodes are to Astartes as the Emperor is to his Primarchs.

Not quite, it's, "Some say that the Custodian Guard are to the Emperor what the Space Marines are to the Primarchs". Note that it's put forward as rumour rather than fact. Their genesis remains largely a mystery.

iproxtaco wrote:
That's been discussed in the other thread about the Custodes. He kills three, yes, he does not go on to kill more after being subbdued by bolter fire. He does not slow down, he does not stop. The Word Bearers were the ones trying to press for a non-violent resolution, so weren't exactly in the same ready stance. Still, impressive feet that does prove they're better than your average Astartes.

What were YOUI reading? He stops, Demands Lorgar surrender, than a WB take a cheap shot at him..




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Source? It's certainly a bit better, but considerably is quite a strong word to use.

After Thirty bolts, each of which can ignore PA in fluff, were poured into Vendatha's helmet, it still hadn't given.

What I've learned from this thread:

1 Custodes > Horus.
1 Thousand Son Captain > 4 Custodes.
1 SM Librarian > 1 Thousand Sons Captain (Sorcerer).

From the "How do you like your Space Marines" thread, I have also found out that:

1 Fire Warrior > 3 SM + 1 Librarian

Therefore, we can conclude that each Fire Warrior is more powerful than a Primarch.

It is a good thing that the Tau haven't been able to get anywhere close to Terra.

Three. One was killed by Incarnadine, which isn't a measure of Astartes versus Cutode, just to clarify. They did not kill the entire complement, although they killed a significant amount. I'm certain that Astartes could do the same, see Soul Hunter and Blood Reaver.

See the "How strong do you like your space marines" Thread. The general opinion is 6-15, and the custodes killed a LOT more than 18 crewmen.


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And used him as a sacrifice. After that bolter magazine, he was already incapacitated. Argel Tal came to end his suffering.

And two power swords going into his gray matter, after having survived thrity times the amount of bolts that would kill an astartes, still couldn't kill him. Then they impaled him on a spear, and he was still alive until Ingethel the Ascend drained his essence for chaos.


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The Grey Knights are, first and foremost, a Space Marine Chapter, but there are surprisingly few similarities between them and the other Adeptus Astartes. First among equals, the Grey Knights utilise the very finest equipment that the Mechanicum of Mars have to offer, vehicles and weaponry so esoteric and rare that they are reserved exclusively for their use. It is rumoured that the Grey Knights share a genetic heritage with the Emperor himself in the same way as other Adeptus Astartes do with their Primarch

Means nothing. Custode equipment is from before Mars and Terra formed an alliance, it is from the Dark/Golden age of technology, when human technology surpassed that of the Eldar.


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And a Custodes wouldn't be worthy of becoming a Grey Knight.

Please, no trolling.

biccat wrote:What I've learned from this thread:

...

Therefore, we can conclude that each Fire Warrior is more powerful than a Primarch.

It is a good thing that the Tau haven't been able to get anywhere close to Terra.

Why do you think the Emperor has so many Guardians protecting him? They're all afraid of the single Fire Warrior that's been sent to end Him. Those Imperial propagandists have been doing a good job of keeping it covered up so far, but for how much longer?..

im2randomghgh wrote:

Three. One was killed by Incarnadine, which isn't a measure of Astartes versus Cutode, just to clarify. They did not kill the entire complement, although they killed a significant amount. I'm certain that Astartes could do the same, see Soul Hunter and Blood Reaver.

See the "How strong do you like your space marines" Thread. The general opinion is 6-15, and the custodes killed a LOT more than 18 crewmen.

Yes, they killed more than 18, but they didn't kill the entire defense force. What's also agreed is that the ratio increases the more Astartes are added into the equation. The proposed ratio is also dependent on a straight up fight. This has many variables to consider, so it isn't as clear cut in this situation.

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And used him as a sacrifice. After that bolter magazine, he was already incapacitated. Argel Tal came to end his suffering.

And two power swords going into his gray matter, after having survived thrity times the amount of bolts that would kill an astartes, still couldn't kill him. Then they impaled him on a spear, and he was still alive until Ingethel the Ascend drained his essence for chaos.

Keep in mind what the Custodes are. Supremely effective individual warriors. While they are seen in the HH books operating in a group once or twice, they do not fight as a team, but rather as say, a group of Samurai.

Even the marines note the capabilites of the Custodes and most realize a one on one fight with them is pointless... unless, of course, one is backed up by the power of Chaos. Marines, it is pointed out were designed to fight as a team, a well-oiled machine of war. Able to be extremely versatile and capable in any eventuality. The Custodes on the other hand were designed to be able to protect the Emperor as individual champions. Being extremely loyal leaders and champions is in their DNA.

This isn't to say that an individual marine doesn't rise to that level of capability, but it isn't as common.

im2randomghgh wrote:After Thirty bolts, each of which can ignore PA in fluff

Where are you getting this garbage from?

In the Chaos Marines codex, a Marine shot point blank in the face is only stunned, and just before that a Chaos Marine took three to the chest and just got angry, none of the shots penetrating their armour.

Dan Abnett may portray Power Armour as being thin as paper, but every other source I have read dictates that a single bolt-round is not very likely to penetrate power armour.

Void__Dragon wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:After Thirty bolts, each of which can ignore PA in fluff

Where are you getting this garbage from?

In the Abnett-verse, bolters are one-shot, instant-kill weapons against marines in power armor.

biccat wrote:What I've learned from this thread:

1 Custodes > Horus.
1 Thousand Son Captain > 4 Custodes.
1 SM Librarian > 1 Thousand Sons Captain (Sorcerer).

From the "How do you like your Space Marines" thread, I have also found out that:

1 Fire Warrior > 3 SM + 1 Librarian

Therefore, we can conclude that each Fire Warrior is more powerful than a Primarch.

It is a good thing that the Tau haven't been able to get anywhere close to Terra.

Touche

im2randomghgh wrote:
See the "How strong do you like your space marines" Thread. The general opinion is 6-15, and the custodes killed a LOT more than 18 crewmen.

Opinion isn't fact. I don't think the argument is how many crewman were killed. You said that all the crewman were killed, which isn't the case.

im2randomghgh wrote:And two power swords going into his gray matter, after having survived thrity times the amount of bolts that would kill an astartes, still couldn't kill him. Then they impaled him on a spear, and he was still alive until Ingethel the Ascend drained his essence for chaos.

I don't know where your brain is, but mine isn't in my mouth, which is where Argel Tal's sword ended up.

The Grey Knights are, first and foremost, a Space Marine Chapter, but there are surprisingly few similarities between them and the other Adeptus Astartes. First among equals, the Grey Knights utilise the very finest equipment that the Mechanicum of Mars have to offer, vehicles and weaponry so esoteric and rare that they are reserved exclusively for their use. It is rumoured that the Grey Knights share a genetic heritage with the Emperor himself in the same way as other Adeptus Astartes do with their Primarch

im2randomghgh wrote:Means nothing. Custode equipment is from before Mars and Terra formed an alliance, it is from the Dark/Golden age of technology, when human technology surpassed that of the Eldar.

LOL, oh dear.

Please refer to page 29 of Collected Visions.

The Custodians have access to all of the myriad types of weaponry and wargear that are used by the Space Marines, including transport and fighting vehicles. They also have access to the Emperor's personal transports and battleships so that they can always be at his side. In addition to the Marines' wargear the Custodian Guard has access to a variety of weapons only they can use. An example is the Guardian Spear, a combination of bolt gun and power axe, which is standard armament for a Custodian Guard

Now where is your source for them having Dark/Golden age Technology? Astartes have that as well remember, it would be where the STCs come from. Astartes armour comes from Mars, as does Grey Knights. Grey Knights get the best Custodes miss out. Poor Custodes.

And a Custodes wouldn't be worthy of becoming a Grey Knight.

im2randomghgh wrote:Please, no trolling.

How is that trolling? It's a statement of opinion. Did it hit a nerve?

Wow I'm just going to ignore the double troll fest up above...

I see a rank and file custodes as having the following stats

BS 5, WS 5, S5, T5, W2, A3, I5 2+/4++ FNP, Fleet, Furious Charge, Fearless, and an outflank ability like the wolf scouts.

Weapons: either relic blades w SShields, x2 falchions, or halberds

So where ever that drops them in the poll, that's where I'd put them

It's common knowlege that a Custode is more powerful than a marine. But, Custodes never leave the Emperors side( "the Emperor's inner guard... never leave Earth and only rarely leave the Imperial Palace). So all in all this thread has been a waste of peoples time. Ya'll need to stop looking for quotes in BL novels. They do not apply. If they did then the entire 40k universe would cave in on itself with the endless flow of contradictions and plot holes. And please don't defend BL novels as a sourse of info. Yes the HH novels are awesome (some at least) but they were written to cause arguments just like this. While you're all trying to figure out who's who and what's what, you're forgetting the big picture, and IMHO the only question worth asking of the HH "What happened on Horus Flagship?".

I'm not trying to start anything here. Im just trying to help calm you guys down. You so viciously attack when someone states something that's not to your liking then demand they post their source. I'm sorry to have to break it to you, but some people have been playing this game so long that they have a hard time remembering where they saw/read/heard half the things they talk about. I remember ages ago my whole group of friends would call the Alpha Legion the "Hydra Legion" only because it was so rarely ever mentioned. Nowadays somebody would jump down your throat for such a small mistake.

Pilau Rice wrote:
Now where is your source for them having Dark/Golden age Technology?

In Rogue Trader they had lascannon spears and force fields in their hats. What a glorious time.

DeffDred wrote:It's common knowlege that a Custode is more powerful than a marine. But, Custodes never leave the Emperors side( "the Emperor's inner guard... never leave Earth and only rarely leave the Imperial Palace). So all in all this thread has been a waste of peoples time. Ya'll need to stop looking for quotes in BL novels. They do not apply. If they did then the entire 40k universe would cave in on itself with the endless flow of contradictions and plot holes. And please don't defend BL novels as a sourse of info. Yes the HH novels are awesome (some at least) but they were written to cause arguments just like this. While you're all trying to figure out who's who and what's what, you're forgetting the big picture, and IMHO the only question worth asking of the HH "What happened on Horus Flagship?".

Question - Who else really cares about the canon/non canon argument? Seriously? You can post as many condescending comments as you want, taking Black Library and the RPGs out of the picture cuts about 80% of the materiel we have to work with. I certainly don't give two flying feths about whether some people don't consider it canon or not, I'll cite them as sources until GW actually officially states that they aren't canon, which, by the way, they haven't yet, so you have literally nothing bar the personal opinions of authors to back up your argument.
His Flagship retreated. Abbaddon has it, it's his flagship, as seen in Soul Hunter.

I'm not trying to start anything here. Im just trying to help calm you guys down. You so viciously attack when someone states something that's not to your liking then demand they post their source. I'm sorry to have to break it to you, but some people have been playing this game so long that they have a hard time remembering where they saw/read/heard half the things they talk about. I remember ages ago my whole group of friends would call the Alpha Legion the "Hydra Legion" only because it was so rarely ever mentioned. Nowadays somebody would jump down your throat for such a small mistake.

I think your grossly over exaggerating the situation. It's an internet forum. Unless you have a real problem, either accept that things will never be 100% calm and logical, or turn off your computer. Still, things aren't as bad as you make them out to be. No one's going to jump down someones throat for something as small as using an old name.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:
Now where is your source for them having Dark/Golden age Technology?

In Rogue Trader they had lascannon spears and force fields in their hats. What a glorious time.

Lascannons .. no. Lasguns and leather Britches, yes

No mention of them having Forcefields either in the RT ruleboob, maybe that's from 2nd ed?

Am I missing out on something here? What are these custard things?

guyperson5 wrote:Am I missing out on something here? What are these custard things?

Fodder for the mighty Catachan Barking Toad.

Void__Dragon wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:No, he actually beat Horus.

Horus, who killed the God Emperor of Mankind.

And the custodes being killed by thousand suns was because of something called PLOT ARMOUR.

Custodes are like Kaldor Draigo, except better in every way, and golden.

Prove he beat Horus please. Since if so, that doesn't make Valdor look good, it only makes Horus look bad.

While empowered by the Chaos Gods. Are you implying Valdor>The Emperor? Stop trolling.

Or it was because they are the most powerful faction of psykers in the setting that aren't Eldar.

You are very deluded if you seriously think any Custode begins to reach Draigo's level of power.

The Emperor killed Horus. Full stop.

Unless you are talking about some random sparring match in some HH book.

And if you are, you'd better provide a reference.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:Right, and four Custodes being killed by Phosis T'kar with a single attack is another thing they have under their belt. Three were then killed in a single attack by Hathor Maat.

Are you seriously implying that pre-Heresy Thousand Son captains are the same as an average Astartes?

One Custode kills a Word Bearer's chapter master, captain, and chaplain before they even react when they knew he was about to attack.

Are you seriously implying that pre-Heresy Custodes primarch babysitters are the same as an average Custodes? The Custodes in The First Heretic are exceptional.

im2randomghgh wrote:No, they aren't. GK > TS, Nicassar > TS, Adeptus Astra Telepathica >TS. Plus there are only a few hundred of them still alive.

Did you just claim that your average astropath is more powerful than a sorcerer from the chosen legion of the god of sorcery? Really?

Ok, lets assume astropaths > Thousand Sons. In A Thousand Sons we see TS sorcerers kill Custodes left, right and center. Therefore Thousand Sons > Custodes. So finally we conclude Adeptus Astra Telepathica > Thousand Sons > Custodes. Wait, so how the hell do they let these badasses get close enough to the Emperor's person to soul-bind them? They're stronger than his bodyguards fer chrissakes!

Void__Dragon wrote:No seriously, the quote on besting Horus, where is it from?

seriously? it's from a 40k wikia article that fails to cite the particular source http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Adeptus_Custodes
the article lists references but doesn't have numbers to indicate which source is being cited in a particular sentence
our friend, im2randomghgh, simply quoted the entire list of sources at the bottom of the article...very lazy research if you ask me

im2randomghgh wrote:What were YOUI reading? He stops, Demands Lorgar surrender, than a WB take a cheap shot at him..

he was reading the book

Argel Tal was picking himself off the floor. Only Xaphen stood between the primarch and his attacker, but the Chaplain had used the scant, precious seconds to draw his bolter, which he aimed squarely at Vendatha’s faceplate.
‘Hold,’ he warned.
. . .
‘You dare threaten me? You murdered my sons, you soulless, worthless husk of genetic overspill.’
Vendatha squeezed the trigger again, but it was too late. Xaphen fired first.

the Custodian attempted to renew his attack, Xaphen beat him to the trigger

DarknessEternal wrote:One Custode kills a Word Bearer's chapter master, captain, and chaplain before they even react when they knew he was about to attack.

im2randomghgh wrote:In The First Heretic, a custodes kills a WB Chapter Master, Captain, chaplain and a few battle brothers before they could even draw their weapons, and they only got the chance to draw because he stopped to press charges and find a non-violent resolution.

I call BS
1) the Custodian was the aggressor, the Word Bearers were hesitant to kill one of the Emperor's bodyguards...Lorgar even offered a truce, but the Custodian suddenly attacked while the Word Bearers were waiting for a response
2) the Custodian killed three Word Bearers (Rikus, Tsar Quorel, Deumos) and no more
3) the Custodian in question was one of the Emperor's Companions (the elite of the elite among the Custodes)
4) the chapter master (Deumos) was armed with a bolter, not exactly the best close combat weapon
5) even after the Custodian had killed three Word Bearers, a fourth Word Bearer held his fire

Argel Tal was picking himself off the floor. Only Xaphen stood between the primarch and his attacker, but the Chaplain had used the scant, precious seconds to draw his bolter, which he aimed squarely at Vendatha’s faceplate.
‘Hold,’ he warned.

the Custodian attempted to renew his attack and was promptly shot in the face
yes, the average Custodian is superior to the average Space Marine in single combat, but not by as much as the two of you are claiming, especially if you go by Abnett's description in Blood Games

Generally, custodes were larger and more powerful than Astartes, but the differences were only noticeably significant in a few specific cases. No one would be foolish enough to predict the outcome of a contest between an Astartes and a custodes.

Yeah b1soul, I found that out later, about him citing the wiki.

kronk wrote:The Emperor killed Horus. Full stop.

Unless you are talking about some random sparring match in some HH book.

And if you are, you'd better provide a reference.

Your reading comprehension isn't that great, is it?

Since if it was, you'd have realised I wasn't disputing the fact that the Emperor beat Horus.

I was disputing that Valdor did.

Void__Dragon wrote:Yeah b1soul, I found that out later, about him citing the wiki.

another poster pointed out that his claim isn't backed up by any of the sources at the bottom of the wikia page
that poster said he doesn't have Codex Imperialis, so it's either in that or it's some fan-made BS...I'm leaning heavily toward the latter

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:Right, and four Custodes being killed by Phosis T'kar with a single attack is another thing they have under their belt. Three were then killed in a single attack by Hathor Maat.

Are you seriously implying that pre-Heresy Thousand Son captains are the same as an average Astartes?

One Custode kills a Word Bearer's chapter master, captain, and chaplain before they even react when they knew he was about to attack.

Are you seriously implying that pre-Heresy Custodes primarch babysitters are the same as an average Custodes? The Custodes in The First Heretic are exceptional.

im2randomghgh wrote:No, they aren't. GK > TS, Nicassar > TS, Adeptus Astra Telepathica >TS. Plus there are only a few hundred of them still alive.

Did you just claim that your average astropath is more powerful than a sorcerer from the chosen legion of the god of sorcery? Really?

Ok, lets assume astropaths > Thousand Sons. In A Thousand Sons we see TS sorcerers kill Custodes left, right and center. Therefore Thousand Sons > Custodes. So finally we conclude Adeptus Astra Telepathica > Thousand Sons > Custodes. Wait, so how the hell do they let these badasses get close enough to the Emperor's person to soul-bind them? They're stronger than his bodyguards fer chrissakes!

in most BL books PA is 100% immune to lasguns, is that canon too? no.


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b1soul wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:Yeah b1soul, I found that out later, about him citing the wiki.

another poster pointed out that his claim isn't backed up by any of the sources at the bottom of the wikia page
that poster said he doesn't have Codex Imperialis, so it's either in that or it's some fan-made BS...I'm leaning heavily toward the latter

WD. Good night /convo

im2randomghgh wrote:in most BL books PA is 100% immune to lasguns, is that canon too? no.

WD. Good night /convo

1. Funny, since I was just reading Fallen Angels and lasguns, while not penetrating it particularly while, could do some damage to the Power Armour, and hit the Marine inside. One Marine had a las-round shot through his knee, temporarily crippling that leg. Which is pretty in line with fluff. I also can't help but notice you didn't really address any of his points. Oh, and considering the fact that your argument has thus far hinged on BL (Mostly First Heretic), to now proclaim it as noncanon is, well, lol.

2. Provide the issue number.

Void__Dragon wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:in most BL books PA is 100% immune to lasguns, is that canon too? no.

WD. Good night /convo

1. Funny, since I was just reading Fallen Angels and lasguns, while not penetrating it particularly while, could do some damage to the Power Armour, and hit the Marine inside. One Marine had a las-round shot through his knee, temporarily crippling that leg. Which is pretty in line with fluff. I also can't help but notice you didn't really address any of his points. Oh, and considering the fact that your argument has thus far hinged on BL (Mostly First Heretic), to now proclaim it as noncanon is, well, lol.

2. Provide the issue number.

1. In Battle of the Fang it was saying "PA was proof against such weapons" and the only time wolves got killed by mortals was when they got hit by lascannons and the like.

2. ...I refuse to go through every single issue of WD I ever purchased to prove a point to a person I don't even know on the internet.

im2randomghgh wrote:1. In Battle of the Fang it was saying "PA was proof against such weapons" and the only time wolves got killed by mortals was when they got hit by lascannons and the like.

2. ...I refuse to go through every single issue of WD I ever purchased to prove a point to a person I don't even know on the internet.

1. For the most part it is proof against Lasguns. Hell, bolters aren't even particularly likely to penetrate it. Nor a heavy bolter.

2. Then stop bringing the point up.