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How strong do you like your custodes?

I like 'em in the 5-10 Astartes range: suitably badass without being unbelievable.

chaos0xomega wrote:I like 'em in the 5-10 Astartes range: suitably badass without being unbelievable.

Same, better armour, better augmentation, better weapons, presumably better training, I don't want a 1 on 1 to be up for toss.

Dying in droves to a single Thousand Sons sorcerer.

Void__Dragon wrote:Dying in droves to a single Thousand Sons sorcerer.

Kno.

Beating a primarch in a sparring match is something custodes have under their belt.

im2randomghgh wrote:Kno.

Beating a primarch in a sparring match is something custodes have under their belt.

Right, and four Custodes being killed by Phosis T'kar with a single attack is another thing they have under their belt. Three were then killed in a single attack by Hathor Maat.

I assume you are referring to Valdor, arguably the best of the Custodes ever? See, from what I hear, he didn't beat Horus. He just lasted a long enough time when sparring to impress.

Void__Dragon wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:Kno.

Beating a primarch in a sparring match is something custodes have under their belt.

Right, and four Custodes being killed by Phosis T'kar with a single attack is another thing they have under their belt. Three were then killed in a single attack by Hathor Maat.

I assume you are referring to Valdor, arguably the best of the Custodes ever? See, from what I hear, he didn't beat Horus. He just lasted a long enough time when sparring to impress.

No, he actually beat Horus.

Horus, who killed the God Emperor of Mankind.

And the custodes being killed by thousand suns was because of something called PLOT ARMOUR.

Custodes are like Kaldor Draigo, except better in every way, and golden.

im2randomghgh wrote:No, he actually beat Horus.

Horus, who killed the God Emperor of Mankind.

And the custodes being killed by thousand suns was because of something called PLOT ARMOUR.

Custodes are like Kaldor Draigo, except better in every way, and golden.

Prove he beat Horus please. Since if so, that doesn't make Valdor look good, it only makes Horus look bad.

While empowered by the Chaos Gods. Are you implying Valdor>The Emperor? Stop trolling.

Or it was because they are the most powerful faction of psykers in the setting that aren't Eldar.

You are very deluded if you seriously think any Custode begins to reach Draigo's level of power.

Void__Dragon wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:No, he actually beat Horus.

Horus, who killed the God Emperor of Mankind.

And the custodes being killed by thousand suns was because of something called PLOT ARMOUR.

Custodes are like Kaldor Draigo, except better in every way, and golden.

Prove he beat Horus please. Since if so, that doesn't make Valdor look good, it only makes Horus look bad.

While empowered by the Chaos Gods. Are you implying Valdor>The Emperor? Stop trolling.

Or it was because they are the most powerful faction of psykers in the setting that aren't Eldar.

You are very deluded if you seriously think any Custode begins to reach Draigo's level of power.

No, it makes Valdor look good.

Stop putting words in my mouth.

No, they aren't. GK > TS, Nicassar > TS, Adeptus Astra Telepathica >TS. Plus there are only a few hundred of them still alive.

And Valdor would annihilate Kaldor Draigo in melee. With the exception of all the gods in the setting, and a few of the stronger Primarchs, Valdor could beat anything in 40k in melee. He eats Eversor-O's for breakfast, made with 100% pure Eversor meat.

im2randomghgh wrote:No, it makes Valdor look good.

Stop putting words in my mouth.

No, they aren't. GK > TS, Nicassar > TS, Adeptus Astra Telepathica >TS. Plus there are only a few hundred of them still alive.

And Valdor would annihilate Kaldor Draigo in melee. With the exception of all the gods in the setting, and a few of the stronger Primarchs, Valdor could beat anything in 40k in melee. He eats Eversor-O's for breakfast, made with 100% pure Eversor meat.

I can't help but notice that you have yet to cite anything vaguely resembling a source. I can only assume you are either trolling, or are desperately trying to get me to notice you want to concede, but are too proud to. I accept your concession regardless.

Why mention it if that was not the implication you were trying to make? Stop your trolling.

With the noticeable exception of Draigo, there is no psyker in the Grey Knights as powerful as Ahriman, and the Knights are more limited in their application of their abilities. What the hell have the Nicassar done to prove them the better of the Sons? The AAT's psykers aren't on the level of the Sons, lol. True, the Sons are dwindling, but really, you failed to address my point. The Sons, with their vast command over sorcery, were able to kill Custodes and those they allied with in droves, until their own powers overloaded due to Tzeentchian nonsense/the Warlord Titan went boom/that one TS marine went boom.

I'm afraid he wouldn't. I'm afraid Draigo would crush Valdor like a little girl. Draigo has beaten Bloodthirsters in single combat without a weapon in the Warp. Valdor doesn't begin to compare.

Void__Dragon wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:No, it makes Valdor look good.

Stop putting words in my mouth.

No, they aren't. GK > TS, Nicassar > TS, Adeptus Astra Telepathica >TS. Plus there are only a few hundred of them still alive.

And Valdor would annihilate Kaldor Draigo in melee. With the exception of all the gods in the setting, and a few of the stronger Primarchs, Valdor could beat anything in 40k in melee. He eats Eversor-O's for breakfast, made with 100% pure Eversor meat.

I can't help but notice that you have yet to cite anything vaguely resembling a source. I can only assume you are either trolling, or are desperately trying to get me to notice you want to concede, but are too proud to. I accept your concession regardless.

Why mention it if that was not the implication you were trying to make? Stop your trolling.

With the noticeable exception of Draigo, there is no psyker in the Grey Knights as powerful as Ahriman, and the Knights are more limited in their application of their abilities. What the hell have the Nicassar done to prove them the better of the Sons? The AAT's psykers aren't on the level of the Sons, lol. True, the Sons are dwindling, but really, you failed to address my point. The Sons, with their vast command over sorcery, were able to kill Custodes and those they allied with in droves, until their own powers overloaded due to Tzeentchian nonsense/the Warlord Titan went boom/that one TS marine went boom.

I'm afraid he wouldn't. I'm afraid Draigo would crush Valdor like a little girl. Draigo has beaten Bloodthirsters in single combat without a weapon in the Warp. Valdor doesn't begin to compare.

Constantine Valdor was one of the first High Lords of Terra. He also had a close relationship with the Primarchs Rogal Dorn and Leman Russ, although initially Russ and Valdor didn't see eye to eye. Dorn was ever-present at the Imperial Palace during the great Crusade and so Valdor and the Primarch spent much time together. On the other hand, Valdor only earned Russ's respect when the former defeated Horus in a sparring match

The Implication I was making was that Horus was not some petty opponent.

You said no faction was more powerful, psychically. That means the sum of psychic power of that faction. Also, in battle of the fang, it was revealed that Thousand Suns sorcerers are individually less powerful than Librarians, there are just more of them is all. And a standard Nicassar is roughly even to a run-of-the-mill Eldar. And Astropaths stand in the emperor's light and not only survive, but become more powerful. A Sorcerer would simply die.

Valdor is as legendary and elite as Draigo, with the bonus of considerably better genetic augmentation and equipment. And experience, every custode alive currently started fighting in the Unification Wars, and fought in the siege of the imperial palace. So there's that, plus Kaldor never beat Horus in a sparring match.

Custodes > SM

You seem to be blinded by the Ward-ness

I'm going to say 2-3, based on the limited knowledge I have of them. Any stronger and it just gets ridiculous.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Constantine Valdor was one of the first High Lords of Terra. He also had a close relationship with the Primarchs Rogal Dorn and Leman Russ, although initially Russ and Valdor didn't see eye to eye. Dorn was ever-present at the Imperial Palace during the great Crusade and so Valdor and the Primarch spent much time together. On the other hand, Valdor only earned Russ's respect when the former defeated Horus in a sparring match

The Implication I was making was that Horus was not some petty opponent.

You said no faction was more powerful, psychically. That means the sum of psychic power of that faction. Also, in battle of the fang, it was revealed that Thousand Suns sorcerers are individually less powerful than Librarians, there are just more of them is all. And a standard Nicassar is roughly even to a run-of-the-mill Eldar. And Astropaths stand in the emperor's light and not only survive, but become more powerful. A Sorcerer would simply die.

Valdor is as legendary and elite as Draigo, with the bonus of considerably better genetic augmentation and equipment. And experience, every custode alive currently started fighting in the Unification Wars, and fought in the siege of the imperial palace. So there's that, plus Kaldor never beat Horus in a sparring match.

Custodes > SM

You seem to be blinded by the Ward-ness

Hm, where is that from? Though really, as I said, it just makes Horus look bad.

Apparently he was, considering that's his only combat feat I can recall against anyone of note (Though I may be wrong). The difference between Horus before Chaos and Horus after is astronomical.

Okay. I was also talking about the Thousand Sons when they were still a ten thousand strong Legion. Individually less powerful than Librarians? Odd, considering the Thousand Sons pioneered the training to make Librarians. Individual Librarians may be more powerful than some Sorcerers, but the strongest sorcerers are just Librarians with less limits. The run of the mill Eldar isn't even the equal of a Librarian. You say a sorcerer will die without proof. Lovely. And you continue to ignore the point. Also lovely.

Oh please, besting Horus in a friggin' sparring match doesn't begin to rival beating down a Bloodthirster in the Warp (Where it is more powerful) without a weapon. Custodes are larger and stronger than Astartes, but the difference is slight. Draigo may not have been alive as long as the Custodes, but Draigo has experienced more than any Marine or Custodes alive. He's been running around in the Warp, and all but the most crazed of Khorne's daemons are afraid to go near him. This is the man who walked into the Garden of Nurgle, and burnt it down. He reached the Impossible city, a feat that should be impossible (Hurhur), and smashed it to pieces.

Draigo may be incredibly stupid, but he's much more powerful than Valdor could ever dream of being.

And seriously, stop bringing up useless points that detract from the topic that you made.

Void__Dragon wrote:Right, and four Custodes being killed by Phosis T'kar with a single attack is another thing they have under their belt. Three were then killed in a single attack by Hathor Maat.

Are you seriously implying that pre-Heresy Thousand Son captains are the same as an average Astartes?

One Custode kills a Word Bearer's chapter master, captain, and chaplain before they even react when they knew he was about to attack.

Void__Dragon wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Constantine Valdor was one of the first High Lords of Terra. He also had a close relationship with the Primarchs Rogal Dorn and Leman Russ, although initially Russ and Valdor didn't see eye to eye. Dorn was ever-present at the Imperial Palace during the great Crusade and so Valdor and the Primarch spent much time together. On the other hand, Valdor only earned Russ's respect when the former defeated Horus in a sparring match

The Implication I was making was that Horus was not some petty opponent.

You said no faction was more powerful, psychically. That means the sum of psychic power of that faction. Also, in battle of the fang, it was revealed that Thousand Suns sorcerers are individually less powerful than Librarians, there are just more of them is all. And a standard Nicassar is roughly even to a run-of-the-mill Eldar. And Astropaths stand in the emperor's light and not only survive, but become more powerful. A Sorcerer would simply die.

Valdor is as legendary and elite as Draigo, with the bonus of considerably better genetic augmentation and equipment. And experience, every custode alive currently started fighting in the Unification Wars, and fought in the siege of the imperial palace. So there's that, plus Kaldor never beat Horus in a sparring match.

Custodes > SM

You seem to be blinded by the Ward-ness

Hm, where is that from? Though really, as I said, it just makes Horus look bad.

Apparently he was, considering that's his only combat feat I can recall against anyone of note (Though I may be wrong). The difference between Horus before Chaos and Horus after is astronomical.

Okay. I was also talking about the Thousand Sons when they were still a ten thousand strong Legion. Individually less powerful than Librarians? Odd, considering the Thousand Sons pioneered the training to make Librarians. Individual Librarians may be more powerful than some Sorcerers, but the strongest sorcerers are just Librarians with less limits. The run of the mill Eldar isn't even the equal of a Librarian. You say a sorcerer will die without proof. Lovely. And you continue to ignore the point. Also lovely.

Oh please, besting Horus in a friggin' sparring match doesn't begin to rival beating down a Bloodthirster in the Warp (Where it is more powerful) without a weapon. Custodes are larger and stronger than Astartes, but the difference is slight. Draigo may not have been alive as long as the Custodes, but Draigo has experienced more than any Marine or Custodes alive. He's been running around in the Warp, and all but the most crazed of Khorne's daemons are afraid to go near him. This is the man who walked into the Garden of Nurgle, and burnt it down. He reached the Impossible city, a feat that should be impossible (Hurhur), and smashed it to pieces.

Draigo may be incredibly stupid, but he's much more powerful than Valdor could ever dream of being.

And seriously, stop bringing up useless points that detract from the topic that you made.

Valdor had almost a thousand battle honours before the HH. That plus 13,000 years of experience, a mind that put him on the high lords, ties to the assassins, infiltration/stealth skills. He was Taller than Alpharius/Omegon. Draigo could no more beat him in CC than he could best Malcador psychically.

Even at the height of their power the sons has closer to a thousand because of their rampant mutations. Hence the name.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarknessEternal wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:Right, and four Custodes being killed by Phosis T'kar with a single attack is another thing they have under their belt. Three were then killed in a single attack by Hathor Maat.

Are you seriously implying that pre-Heresy Thousand Son captains are the same as an average Astartes?

One Custode kills a Word Bearer's chapter master, captain, and chaplain before they even react when they knew he was about to attack.

Then killed several more, had a full bolter clip pumped into him, was impaled on twin power swords and mounted on a spear...and wasn't dead yet.

DarknessEternal wrote:Are you seriously implying that pre-Heresy Thousand Son captains are the same as an average Astartes?

One Custode kills a Word Bearer's chapter master, captain, and chaplain before they even react when they knew he was about to attack.

I didn't think "Sorcerer" implied "average Astartes."

But hey, I guess some people just like getting buttmad.

Void__Dragon wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:Are you seriously implying that pre-Heresy Thousand Son captains are the same as an average Astartes?

One Custode kills a Word Bearer's chapter master, captain, and chaplain before they even react when they knew he was about to attack.

I didn't think "Sorcerer" implied "average Astartes."

But hey, I guess some people just like getting buttmad.

Says the guy who's been spazing out on several forums -_______________________-

im2randomghgh wrote:Valdor had almost a thousand battle honours before the HH. That plus 13,000 years of experience, a mind that put him on the high lords, ties to the assassins, infiltration/stealth skills. He was Taller than Alpharius/Omegon. Draigo could no more beat him in CC than he could best Malcador psychically.

Even at the height of their power the sons has closer to a thousand because of their rampant mutations. Hence the name.

No seriously, the quote on besting Horus, where is it from?

Alpharius was by far the shortest Primarch. Hence why a normal Astartes could pass for him. Draigo bested a Bloodthirster in CC without a weapon in the Warp, Valdor has no similar feat. As for Malcador, well, I haven't seen Malcador burn down the Garden of Nurgle with psychic flame.

I am getting so tired of educating you.

"At a conservative estimate, Ahriman guessed that just over a thousand warriors had escaped the attack of the Wulfen.
'A tenth of the Legion,' he said."
- Page 258, A Thousand Sons


Automatically Appended Next Post:

im2randomghgh wrote:Says the guy who's been spazing out on several forums -_______________________-

I am perfectly calm actually.

Void__Dragon wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:Valdor had almost a thousand battle honours before the HH. That plus 13,000 years of experience, a mind that put him on the high lords, ties to the assassins, infiltration/stealth skills. He was Taller than Alpharius/Omegon. Draigo could no more beat him in CC than he could best Malcador psychically.

Even at the height of their power the sons has closer to a thousand because of their rampant mutations. Hence the name.

No seriously, the quote on besting Horus, where is it from?

Alpharius was by far the shortest Primarch. Hence why a normal Astartes could pass for him. Draigo bested a Bloodthirster in CC without a weapon in the Warp, Valdor has no similar feat. As for Malcador, well, I haven't seen Malcador burn down the Garden of Nurgle with psychic flame.

I am getting so tired of educating you.

"At a conservative estimate, Ahriman guessed that just over a thousand warriors had escaped the attack of the Wulfen.
'A tenth of the Legion,' he said."
- Page 258, A Thousand Sons


Automatically Appended Next Post:

im2randomghgh wrote:Says the guy who's been spazing out on several forums -_______________________-

I am perfectly calm actually.

Most of that makes ZERO sense. Alpharius was still too tall to ever pass for astartes.

Also, it is canon that Malcador was the most psychically powerful human being ever created, ever, except the emperor. Ravenor, an alpha+ psyker, could communicate with a few people psychically at a time. Malcador Spoke so loudly psychically that he caused physical pain to 100,000 word bearers. He held the Golden throne, HELD CHAOS OUT OF THE PHYSICAL UNIVERSE FOR HOURS, AND STILL HAD ENOUGH PSYCHIC POWER LEFT TO BRING THE EMPEROR BACK TO CONSCIOUSNESS FOR SEVERAL MINUTES. Unaugmented, without juvenants, he lived for hundreds of years, with no end in sight. Cuz he's a boss. Malcador would utterly eclipse Kaldor Draigo in every conceivable way.

im2randomghgh wrote:Most of that makes ZERO sense. Alpharius was still too tall to ever pass for astartes.

Also, it is canon that Malcador was the most psychically powerful human being ever created, ever, except the emperor. Ravenor, an alpha+ psyker, could communicate with a few people psychically at a time. Malcador Spoke so loudly psychically that he caused physical pain to 100,000 word bearers. He held the Golden throne, HELD CHAOS OUT OF THE PHYSICAL UNIVERSE FOR HOURS, AND STILL HAD ENOUGH PSYCHIC POWER LEFT TO BRING THE EMPEROR BACK TO CONSCIOUSNESS FOR SEVERAL MINUTES. Unaugmented, without juvenants, he lived for hundreds of years, with no end in sight. Cuz he's a boss. Malcador would utterly eclipse Kaldor Draigo in every conceivable way.

Admittedly, I know very little about the Alpha Legion, but he was still the smallest Primarch. Also,

I was mostly joking concerning Malcador, in terms of pure psychic power, he is almost definitely better than Draigo. You are wrong on one part though, Malcador, though definitely one of the most powerful psykers ever, was not as powerful as Magnus, the original successor for the Golden Throne. Though I acknowledge you may not be counting him as "human." And frankly, Chaos was held outside of the physical universe for millions of years, and according to Lexicanum at least, what he was really doing was keeping the human-built sections of the Webway safe, not the Materium.

No but, seriously, where is the quote on Valdor beating Horus from? I'll agree to disagree on this argument (Whatever it's about at this point) if you just give me that. I've been looking for both that and where Leman Russ beat Horus in a duel for a while.

2/3 of custode sources here:

Codex Imperialis by Rick Priestley
Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader (1st Edition)
Blood Games (Novel) by Dan Abnett
Horus Heresy: Collected Visions, pp. 28-29
Inquisitor (Novel) by Ian Watson

Forget which I read it in though :$ may even have been WD

im2randomghgh wrote:2/3 of custode sources here:

Codex Imperialis by Rick Priestley
Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader (1st Edition)
Blood Games (Novel) by Dan Abnett
Horus Heresy: Collected Visions, pp. 28-29
Inquisitor (Novel) by Ian Watson

Forget which I read it in though :$ may even have been WD

Well, I've read Blood Games, that's not it.

Hm, I heard it was in WD somewhere, along with the Leman Russ thing. Haven't found.

A Grey Knight is never without weapons against daemons. Also consider that the gardens and the city repaired themselves, something people for some reason never see fit to mention.

Void__Dragon wrote:Dying in droves to a single Thousand Sons sorcerer.

This.

The Custodes aren't that much better than an Astartes, with a few exceptions I guess like Valdor, who should be better than a regular Astartes as he is the leader of the Custodes at the time of the Heresy.

And it begins

im2randomghgh wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:Kno.

Beating a primarch in a sparring match is something custodes have under their belt.

Right, and four Custodes being killed by Phosis T'kar with a single attack is another thing they have under their belt. Three were then killed in a single attack by Hathor Maat.

I assume you are referring to Valdor, arguably the best of the Custodes ever? See, from what I hear, he didn't beat Horus. He just lasted a long enough time when sparring to impress.

No, he actually beat Horus.

Where is your source for Valdor beating Horus? I have found no citation for this at all despite of it being mentioned on other forums. It's been suggested that Horus let Valdor win so that Valdor would gain Russ's respect as a warrior. If that's the case, big whoop to Valdor. This is pretty much something that Horus would do. Any normal day of the week Horus would crush Valdor.

im2randomghgh wrote:Horus, who killed the God Emperor of Mankind.

And what? Killed the Emperor, maybe i've been reading the wrong version of 40k heresy fluff here but as far as I know, the Emperor survived, if barely, as was placed in the Golden throne.

im2randomghgh wrote:the custodes being killed by thousand suns was because of something called PLOT ARMOUR.

Custodes are like Kaldor Draigo, except better in every way, and golden.

Nothing to do with them getting their asses handed to them by psykers then? If it weren't for the Sisters of Silence they would have been killed a hell of a lot quicker and easier.

And being Golden, what does that even mean?! They are gold so they are better? That means Dorn is better than the Custodes because he is the Man of Gold, or Lorgar is better because he has golden skin. My Emperor's Children beat everyone because they are pink.

Void__Dragon wrote:
I'm afraid he wouldn't. I'm afraid Draigo would crush Valdor like a little girl. Draigo has beaten Bloodthirsters in single combat without a weapon in the Warp. Valdor doesn't begin to compare.

Agreed, Draigo is a step above a Custodes. Despite how bad I think Draigo and his fluff is, this is truth.

DarknessEternal wrote:
One Custode kills a Word Bearer's chapter master, captain, and chaplain before they even react when they knew he was about to attack.

It was an impressive feat admittedly but I would disagree with you wholeheartedly that they were expecting Vendatha to actually attack. 1 Custodes vs a Primarch and possibly a few hundred marines would have been a quick battle.

im2randomghgh wrote:
Valdor had almost a thousand battle honours before the HH. That plus 13,000 years of experience, a mind that put him on the high lords, ties to the assassins, infiltration/stealth skills. He was Taller than Alpharius/Omegon. Draigo could no more beat him in CC than he could best Malcador psychically.

What, Valdor is 13,000 years old? Where are you getting this notion from? His place on the Council of Terra is because they are the Emperor Guardians and defenders of the Palace, they get a place by default.

im2randomghgh wrote:Then killed several more, had a full bolter clip pumped into him, was impaled on twin power swords and mounted on a spear...and wasn't dead yet.

No, he killed 3, not 'then several more', he had a Sword thrown into his gob and then was mounted on a spear, at which point he died. Please don exaggerate.

Void__Dragon wrote:Alpharius was by far the shortest Primarch. Hence why a normal Astartes could pass for him. Draigo bested a Bloodthirster in CC without a weapon in the Warp, Valdor has no similar feat. As for Malcador, well, I haven't seen Malcador burn down the Garden of Nurgle with psychic flame.

I am getting so tired of educating you.

QFT in both regards.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Also consider that the gardens and the city repaired themselves, something people for some reason never see fit to mention.

It's irrelevant that it grew back, it still happened.

im2randomghgh wrote:
Most of that makes ZERO sense. Alpharius was still too tall to ever pass for astartes.

Incorrect as Legion pretty much disagrees with you here as does the latest HH Aurelian.

im2randomghgh wrote:2/3 of custode sources here:

Codex Imperialis by Rick Priestley
Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader (1st Edition)
Blood Games (Novel) by Dan Abnett
Horus Heresy: Collected Visions, pp. 28-29
Inquisitor (Novel) by Ian Watson

I own all of these bar Codex Imperialis and it's not in any of these. It's not in an early WD either - this place is useful for checking stuff in WD.

http://www.gamehobby.net/subject_indexes/subject_wh40k_chapter_approved.html

This is nearly as bad as the Grey Knight vs Custodes thread

I loved that thread. I had a really nice point by point explanation of everything but I didn't post it for some reason. Although I agree, there's a lot of hyperbole and generally ludicrous statements.
A Custode is slightly better in most ways to an Astartes, due to his individuality, barring their inability to work together.

Custodes (I feel) are equal to 2-3 marines, with better armour and weapons but en-mass they will lose as in "The First Heretic" Xaphen or Argen Tal (Can't remeber which) Likens the astartes to custodians as wolves to lions, individually stronger but can't act together and will be beaten by pack tactics.

iproxtaco wrote:I loved that thread. I had a really nice point by point explanation of everything but I didn't post it for some reason. Although I agree, there's a lot of hyperbole and generally ludicrous statements.
A Custode is slightly better in most ways to an Astartes, due to his individuality, barring their inability to work together.

A certain someone left that thread as well after it didn't go their way.

I'll would post this on that thread but it's long dead, but this makes their argument about the Custodes armour is the best argument redundant.

The Grey Knights are, first and foremost, a Space Marine Chapter, but there are surprisingly few similarities between them and the other Adeptus Astartes. First among equals, the Grey Knights utilise the very finest equipment that the Mechanicum of Mars have to offer, vehicles and weaponry so esoteric and rare that they are reserved exclusively for their use. It is rumoured that the Grey Knights share a genetic heritage with the Emperor himself in the same way as other Adeptus Astartes do with their Primarch

What are Custodes currently armoured with? Leather breaches and a cloak ... scary stuff.

In collected visions i'm fairly sure it says that Custodes are to Astartes as the Emperor is to his Primarchs.

This to me suggests fairly heavily that it is known that the Custodes are more powerful than the Astartes.

At the end of First Heretic the Custodes are outnumbered, unprepared and the astartes have had the benefit of watching them for 50 years and preparing for this, they are also daemon spawn.

Simo429 wrote:In collected visions i'm fairly sure it says that Custodes are to Astartes as the Emperor is to his Primarchs.

This to me suggests fairly heavily that it is known that the Custodes are more powerful than the Astartes.

At the end of First Heretic the Custodes are outnumbered, unprepared and the astartes have had the benefit of watching them for 50 years and preparing for this, they are also daemon spawn.

If this is the case then I will make an attempt at eating Collected Visions.

The Custodes were outnumbered true but nor was their any unison in the attack, and they were hardly unprepared, they had been fighting their way throughout the ship, they knew full well that they were in a woeful situation.

Pilau Rice wrote:
The Custodes were outnumbered true but nor was their any unison in the attack, and they were hardly unprepared, they had been fighting their way throughout the ship, they knew full well that they were in a woeful situation.

And in the same book, one custode kills 3 high ranking Word Bearers.

Consistency isn't part of the 40k universe.