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Deadshot wrote:No,I mean how do they fair?What is peoples opinion on them?

Great tarpit units.

Seriously?

Deadshot wrote:Seriously?

Well, I do not want to hijack this thread. But Daemons are great tarpit units unless you want smaller Daemon units for scoring purposes.

Ok.


Back on topic,I have a friend who fields Dreadnoughts,and gives them a MM,and puts them next to alot of Infantry,and acts as a firebase,to discourage any tanks from getting to close.

Deadshot wrote:
Back on topic,I have a friend who fields Dreadnoughts,and gives them a MM,and puts them next to alot of Infantry,and acts as a firebase,to discourage any tanks from getting to close.

That tactic is fine and dandy until the Dread goes nuts and starts firing at his own infantry and attempts to assault them.

I still firmly believe that Chaos Dreads are best served in groups of themselves and far away from the rest of your army.

That is the beauty of it.If he goes all triger happy,then the squad gets a cover save.If they fail then he just takers it on a superficial bolter.If he tries to assault he will not be firing,and will need to get through the DT.

Chaos Dreadnoughts will never assault your own units, only shoot them. A roll of 6 (Blood Rage) makes your dread move towards the nearest ENEMY, fleet, and must charge them.

Even better.

How come no one has mentioned the Phalanx?

3 dreads, ML's or HB's, marching shoulder to shoulder. If one goes nuts, it shoots the side armor of one of the other dreads- which it cant hurt with frag/HB rounds! Always good for a laugh.

GD comes in through an Independent Character or a Champion leading a squad. One of your men becomes a blood sacrifice and perishes for the mighty Daemon. Filter in the cost of the model used to summon him.

Whenever I use the Greater Daemon I position him well enough where the opponent has to commit firepower towards him and not towards the rest of my army. That being said he has always made up his points for me. With a statline of essentially all 6's he can put a hurtin' on most things in Close Combat.

wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I do not want to hijack this thread. But Daemons are great tarpit units unless you want smaller Daemon units for scoring purposes.

Justus wrote:GD comes in through an Independent Character or a Champion leading a squad. One of your men becomes a blood sacrifice and perishes for the mighty Daemon. Filter in the cost of the model used to summon him.

Whenever I use the Greater Daemon I position him well enough where the opponent has to commit firepower towards him and not towards the rest of my army. That being said he has always made up his points for me. With a statline of essentially all 6's he can put a hurtin' on most things in Close Combat.

Someone's paying attention to ze thread...

Deadshot wrote:Ok.


Back on topic,I have a friend who fields Dreadnoughts,and gives them a MM,and puts them next to alot of Infantry,and acts as a firebase,to discourage any tanks from getting to close.

Well, a single multimelta is hit or miss.

Anything comes near,he either jumps out,goes trigger happy on the bloke next to him who gets a 4+ cover,or 3+ vs TL bolter,or he goes nuts on the tank in front of him.Always a win.If he stays sane,and fails to MM the tank,then he charges and wails on it.

lledwey wrote:Chaos Dreadnoughts will never assault your own units, only shoot them. A roll of 6 (Blood Rage) makes your dread move towards the nearest ENEMY, fleet, and must charge them.

I completely misread that, my apologies.

Still though, I wouldn't want my own MM aimed at my MEQs, especially if they are in a Rhino.

They are the devsatators,but the chaos version,not in a rhino.There are always 6ish guys,2 have bolters,the rest have heavy weapons.If the Dreadfires on them,they take the 4+ cover on a bolter guy,and if he fails then the lost a model they were not even using.

I like pairs of dreads with Plasma Cannons since Chaos can't get PCs outside of HS, the S7 blast isn't very scary to the other dread and no overheat. Plus Lash. Missiles are an excellent choice and can be made to basically have no risk on Crazed results. Pure CC dreads are similarly useful.

jmurph wrote:I like pairs of dreads with Plasma Cannons since Chaos can't get PCs outside of HS, the S7 blast isn't very scary to the other dread and no overheat. Plus Lash. Missiles are an excellent choice and can be made to basically have no risk on Crazed results. Pure CC dreads are similarly useful.

That sounds like a gamble - Dreads w/ plasma cannons. How do you position them? At the opposite side of your main force? Otherwise, they might shoot their 'friends'.

Jihallah wrote:How come no one has mentioned the Phalanx?

3 dreads, ML's or HB's, marching shoulder to shoulder. If one goes nuts, it shoots the side armor of one of the other dreads- which it cant hurt with frag/HB rounds! Always good for a laugh.

I ran the phalanx this evening with 3x extra DCCW with HB and extra armor. They had several blood rage and fire frenzy, damaging nothing friendly. The problem was getting into assault because walkers are not that fast. I wish there was a way to get them jump packs like BA, or personal teleporters like GK. As is, they did not do anything but kill an empty SR that got too close in turn 6. That helped win the game, but overall, that is the only thing they killed. Overall a bit underwhelming for crazed killing machines.

Necrontyr40k wrote:

Jihallah wrote:How come no one has mentioned the Phalanx?

3 dreads, ML's or HB's, marching shoulder to shoulder. If one goes nuts, it shoots the side armor of one of the other dreads- which it cant hurt with frag/HB rounds! Always good for a laugh.

I ran the phalanx this evening with 3x extra DCCW with HB and extra armor. They had several blood rage and fire frenzy, damaging nothing friendly. The problem was getting into assault because walkers are not that fast. I wish there was a way to get them jump packs like BA, or personal teleporters like GK. As is, they did not do anything but kill an empty SR that got too close in turn 6. That helped win the game, but overall, that is the only thing they killed. Overall a bit underwhelming for crazed killing machines.

How did the rest of the army look like. A monster mash is scary for each opponent.

Necrontyr40k wrote:I ran the phalanx this evening with 3x extra DCCW with HB and extra armor. They had several blood rage and fire frenzy, damaging nothing friendly. The problem was getting into assault because walkers are not that fast. I wish there was a way to get them jump packs like BA, or personal teleporters like GK. As is, they did not do anything but kill an empty SR that got too close in turn 6. That helped win the game, but overall, that is the only thing they killed. Overall a bit underwhelming for crazed killing machines.

I disagree! Unless your walking on from a Dawn of War deployment, there shouldn't be more than 24" between you and your opponents deployment zone. So it will take 4 turns to reach the opponents deployment, at worst. But is that what the dreads are for? Picture a few objectives in that 24" of no-mans land. Find the greatest concentration of objectives, and march your phalanx towards it. So either your opponent ignores it, or they have to deal with 3 dreads stomping around where the majority of the objectives are.

It's kind of like the ol' heavy ganger from Necro with a heavy stubber. Alot of games the poor bugger sits there and does very little effective firing, because everyone is too busy hiding away from him and ducking in cover etc. So whats he doing? Is he really the strong ganger given the biggest gun because of the deadly toll he will reap from the enemy? or is he making an area of the playing field a "no go zone" for the opponent? Creating an area the opponent does not want to move into is valuable in a game like 40k, where often you MUST move to capture objectives.

Chaos dreads are good. You just have to build a list that they fit into. In my opinion, taking 3 defilers and 3 dreadnoughts is a very solid core to an army. I am not a real fan of the Greater Daemon anymore though, as I feel it takes away flexibility.

Anyway, a walker Chaos list can be competitive. Chaos Dreads with Missile launchers is a good place to start.

wuestenfux wrote:
How did the rest of the army look like. A monster mash is scary for each opponent.

My CSM army:
2x DP MoS wings lash
3x dread extra DCCW extra armor
2x zerker squad (7+skull PW) in rhino dozer
1x plaguer (5 with 2 melta) in rhino dozer
1x plague (5 with 2 melta)
3x autolas predators

My league opponent BA:
10 jumpers with 2 melta, PF sarge, priest
10 jumpers with 2 melta, PF sarge
5 Termies TH/SS, 1 sarge PS
5 Termies TH/SS, 1 librarian
2x SR with TL AC, TL MM, 4x missiles
dread with PC

League scenario: spearhead, 3 objectives (one in middle of board, one each in middle of D zones). Enemy objective worth double. Running (50% of time) or vehicles moving beyond combat speed (always) lead to dangerous terrain tests.

I deployed autolas preds in my corner, 3x dreads max forward and in BtB with each other closest to central objective, the three rhinos behind them and the DPs behind the rhinos. The dismounted plaguers squad camped on my objective. BA went all reserve, so I moved forward along the diagonal axis of the board toward central objective. Plaguers dismounted on central objective. DPs moved behind them to position centrally and so be ready to pounce wherever the BA showed up. Zerker rhinos reached center as well.

Second turn: Dreads keep marching to enemy objective. One zerker squad motored towards it as well and dismounted into cover to be ready to assault next turn. The other zerker rhino immobilized itself (rolled snake eyes) so zerkers dismounted in my DZ into cover to be ready to strike towards my or the central objective. DP chilled in the central forest. BA got both SR and a jumper from reserves. The SR moved in 6 inches from his table edge facing my preds. He fired all missiles and popped two preds. The dread dismounted and tried to fry the back zerkers but the blast scattered onto one trooper from the jumper squad that landed between the zerkers and the preds. The jumpers immobilized and stunned the last pred with their meltas. That was pretty rough.

Third turn: DPs, home zerkers, and home plaguers converge onto the jumpers. One DP murdered the priest at I6, so no FNP for the jumpers. The other DP and the zerkers wiped out the rest except for a single trooper who got killed by the plaguers. The dreads got a bit closer to the enemy objective. The forward zerkers chilled within striking range of enemy objective, staying in cover hiding behind their rhino from the plasma cannon on the BA dread. Forward plaguers camped on central objective shielded by their rhino. Zerker rhino failed to repair. BA moved birds a bit closer and raked zerkers with AC and MM. Dread inched forward and hit a DP with plasma, but the DP made the invul. The second jumper squad arrived in front of my objective and wrecked my last predator.

Fourth turn: My dreads got a frenzy, a rage, and a normal result, so one got stuck and raked a dread with bolters, another raged through a forest towards the BA, and the normal one was directed towards the central objective. Forward zerkers chilled in cover waiting for turn 5 to jump on enemy objective. Central plaguers camped. DPs and zerkers moved closer to the jumpers. Home plaguers walked onto home objective. DPs lashed the jumpers into a T-formation, the plaguers melted a couple, and the zerkers shot three more (wow!). That caused a morale check which the jumpers luckily for them failed and fell back. Mental note: do not shoot a lashed unit with too many shot, or you may get lucky kills and they may get lucky and run away. BA jumpers hauled butt but regrouped at just 5 models (damn you, ATSKNF). The dread hit the home zerkers with plasma, but 2 out of 3 made their cover saves. The birds inched forward and raked the zerkers with AC and one blew up the central plaguer rhino with MM.

Fifth turn: It is time - forward zerkers jumped out of cover and ran onto enemy objective taking dangerous terrain checks. Khorne smiled on their bravery and all ten lived to kill another day! Their rhino rushed forward and shielded them from the dread PC. One of my dreads frenzied and shot up the zerker rhino ineffectively. The other two moved closer to the BA. Realizing that BA has only 5 scoring models left (the lucky fearful jumpers), the DPs flew forward towards them followed by the home zerkers. However, both lashes failed due to the librarian in the SR, so the zerkers could not reach the target. The DPs assaulted by themselves and wiped out the jumpers at I6. At this point BA no longer could win the game but might tie in a remote possibility. We decided to play it out. BA dismounted the two termie squads and moved both birds 12 inches - one towards my home objective and one towards his home objective. The plasma cannon killed one more zerker and the birds raked the plaguers mostly ineffectively. The termies jumped on the DPs, but the DPs struck first. The librarian made two invuls but the PS termie died. Then the TH killed both DPs. We rolled for end of game, but it continued.

Sixth turn: Now I still hold all three objectives, but two birds can flat out and contest both home objectives, while the central one may be contested by the termies and dread. So, if I kill or immobilize any of the birds, I will win. So, two dreads jumped onto one of the birds (they finally made it!) and exploded it, while my home plaguers immobilized the other bird with melta shots. At this point BA conceded because he lost all mobility and could not make it to contest all objectives while the forward zerkers could not be plasma shot because they could not be seen behind the rhino.

So, I agree that dreads give area control and helped win the game, but I want them to kill things for fluff reasons.

Anyway, a walker Chaos list can be competitive. Chaos Dreads with Missile launchers is a good place to start.

But then you don't want your transports (Rhinos) to be too close.

Sounds well played Necrontyr40k, grats on the win. I can imagine that second/third turn being pretty rough indeed, losing your pred firebase for the third turn would suck. And for the dreads, It is a shame they don't wreak a hefty toll on the opponent, but take heart! Its because the enemy avoids them

wuestenfux wrote:

Anyway, a walker Chaos list can be competitive. Chaos Dreads with Missile launchers is a good place to start.

But then you don't want your transports (Rhinos) to be too close.

This is why you take missile launchers. If your dread goes into a fire frenzy, you shoot a couple frags at the rhino, likely doing nothing.

Well done. Three dreads is rarely a bad idea.

Chaos Dreads are honestly more for style over substance IMO.

lledwey wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:

Anyway, a walker Chaos list can be competitive. Chaos Dreads with Missile launchers is a good place to start.

But then you don't want your transports (Rhinos) to be too close.

This is why you take missile launchers. If your dread goes into a fire frenzy, you shoot a couple frags at the rhino, likely doing nothing.

Good move!

wuestenfux wrote:That sounds like a gamble - Dreads w/ plasma cannons. How do you position them? At the opposite side of your main force? Otherwise, they might shoot their 'friends'.

If they are by each other, they will usually shoot each other if no enemies in sight (pretty rare with TLOS). Two S7 blasts isn't that scary to AV12. Just make sure they aren't hanging around oblits!

Missiles are a safer bet as you can always choose frags, but I really like the PCs for some AP2. 2x DCCW has the problem of an immobilized making them useless. YMMV.

They are fun to play with and are very little points. If you are looking to make a top list leave them at home. I f you want to laugh play them.