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Da Boss wrote: I still love collecting and painting fantasy armies, but I don't feel much enthusiasm for playing in the new environment.

Same here. Shame really as I have 11 WFB armies and I just don't have any desire to play any of them under the current rules. I've even stopped buying WFB stuff even though I would really like a reason to get an Araknarok or Warsphinx. Ah well I guess...

Walls wrote:It's 40k players who've never really played fantasy or people who can't play for fun that are destroying fantasy's player base, saying how awful it is for no real good reason.

Hardly. I gave 8th edition a good 6-8 months of playtest and by the end of that time I was absolutely sick of it. Worst edition of the game ever, bar none IMO.

Cheers, Gary

@Silashand - You're still fitting the description Walls posted. "Worst edition of the game ever, bar none" with no warrants to back up the claim. Care to articulate why?

I think moving the events to quarterly will be the next step after seeing how many show up for this weekends event. If that doesn't work then I'll do semi-annually to boost anticipation

As for 8th being the worst.. Eh I think 7th was pretty bad for reasons of army books being unbalanced. 8th books seem more balanced but a lot of units are deemed useless due to steadfast and needing 2 ranks to flank effectively. Thus to me the games seem fairly similar

I hail from a gaming club of around consistent players at present from the Philadelphia area. We loved WFB, in fact that was our primary game. We would goto Mikhaila's events typically bringing 8 guys, and sported the full club at a few. I loved 7th edition. We would see the Warmongers, Big Gunz, CCG, Legion in force at events. There were major wait lists for Conflict, Colonial, Crossroads, to the point guys got nervious they wouldn't be able to go. I used to make sure to head to events for the adult entertainment on fridays, i'd show up on thursdays just to hang out.

Problem is 8th edition hit. I love Showcase and the local GT events. However, I cannot bring myself to pay the cost for a game I now have grown to hate. Almost my entire club abandoned ship to Warmachine / Hordes. Now we all play 40K (Showcase i'm a coming this fall !! ). The problem is guys really were vested in 7th edition. Now in 8th its really boring if you were a tactical player. Its kind of like WFB for ADHD kids.

Pittsburgh is not far, but people won't go from Philly to Pittsburgh for a game that is now lackluster. I wish you luck I really do. But WFB is not what is was. I wish all present WFB players the best, and if you love it glad you found something you love. But I know many of the major clubs in the Tri-State area do not enjoy that game at all, and have moved on

My personal distaste if people are interested:
-7th had power creep, 8th has super big bang spells
-random terrain? why? why does terrain need to be random to make the game interesting
-storm of magic: really cool idea. I think if GW just had 7th and this, it would level things out some how
-the idea that bigger is better! its not. a bigger GT game doesn't make me more interested in a system that is boring and all about exploding your opponent with magic on turn 1.
-I refuse to take 30 minutes to prep to deploy my skaven horde army, just to take a massed panic check on turn 1.
-stomp/thunder stomp really cool fun idea that made sense! but the removal / making calavry obsolete is idiotic.

njpc wrote:I hail from a gaming club of around consistent players at present from the Philadelphia area. We loved WFB, in fact that was our primary game. We would goto Mikhaila's events typically bringing 8 guys, and sported the full club at a few. I loved 7th edition. We would see the Warmongers, Big Gunz, CCG, Legion in force at events. There were major wait lists for Conflict, Colonial, Crossroads, to the point guys got nervious they wouldn't be able to go. I used to make sure to head to events for the adult entertainment on fridays, i'd show up on thursdays just to hang out.

Problem is 8th edition hit. I love Showcase and the local GT events. However, I cannot bring myself to pay the cost for a game I now have grown to hate. Almost my entire club abandoned ship to Warmachine / Hordes. Now we all play 40K (Showcase i'm a coming this fall !! ). The problem is guys really were vested in 7th edition. Now in 8th its really boring if you were a tactical player. Its kind of like WFB for ADHD kids.

Pittsburgh is not far, but people won't go from Philly to Pittsburgh for a game that is now lackluster. I wish you luck I really do. But WFB is not what is was. I wish all present WFB players the best, and if you love it glad you found something you love. But I know many of the major clubs in the Tri-State area do not enjoy that game at all, and have moved on

My personal distaste if people are interested:
-7th had power creep, 8th has super big bang spells
-random terrain? why? why does terrain need to be random to make the game interesting
-storm of magic: really cool idea. I think if GW just had 7th and this, it would level things out some how
-the idea that bigger is better! its not. a bigger GT game doesn't make me more interested in a system that is boring and all about exploding your opponent with magic on turn 1.
-I refuse to take 30 minutes to prep to deploy my skaven horde army, just to take a massed panic check on turn 1.
-stomp/thunder stomp really cool fun idea that made sense! but the removal / making calavry obsolete is idiotic.

Your arugement that 8th is less tactical is a bit off. 8th edition relies far less on you (or your opponent) and seeing which one of you knows 8'', 10, 16'', 24'' better without using a tape.

And a few other things really show a lack of understanding how the game actually works. Cavalry is definitely not obsolete. A monster in an infantry unit will usually win combat due to thunderstomp helping swing it in their favor. A monster fighting cavalry is an entire different story. My skaven actually struggled a bit against a bret player a few weekends ago in a tournament since I was only killing one or two models a turn and taking break checks on my aboms which rarely happens if I am fighting an infantry unit.

We are also talking about tournament play and in the vast majority of tournaments the only random terrain used are forests.

Also, invest in some magnets. It literally takes me 2 minutes to set up my 300 model skaven army thanks to a few magnets

Fantasy is far from perfect (as well as 40k) but this edition is probably the best one they have made. Every game has the potential to be drastically different from the last one due to stuff like random charges (which aren't really that random if you do a bit of math) and other things.

On a somewhat similar note, there is one thing I do notice between 40k and fantasy which makes me enjoy fantasy more... More often than not, I hear about 40k games that were lost(or won) on a single dice roll whereas in fantasy this is rarely happens. And if you are still playing fantasy and are losing to ultimate spells, stop taking 2 giant units in your army. More units in the 25~ model range work wonders in this edition but people are to busy deathstarring it up and then complain when they get hit with a dwellers or something.

Well, you can be hit by purple sun or curse of the bad moon down your entire battle line because they are vortex spells.

Playing a magic heavy daemon list at 2000 points, I got blasted by my own (gleaned by the Blue Scribes) Curse of Da Bad Moon on turn 2. Took out most of two units in one go- one 40 strong NG unit (I don't think anyone is gonna call 40 NG a deathstar) and 1 25 strong big 'uns unit.

I doubt we're going to agree on this, because it's down to opinion. But that playstyle is a lot less fun to me than the manouver, swing combats in your favour kind of play I enjoyed in 6th and 7th edition. 7th was a pain in the ass because of 3 books. Now the books are much more balanced, but the games are (to me) less satisfying to play. I should give it more of a try, perhaps- but my time is limited and if I'm not enjoying something why stick at it? I can get a game of Warmachine or Hordes in in the time it takes me to friggin' DEPLOY my Orc army.

TimmyMWD wrote:@Silashand - You're still fitting the description Walls posted. "Worst edition of the game ever, bar none" with no warrants to back up the claim. Care to articulate why?

Do you really want another long post on how 8th sucks. In a nut shell it is some horrible half assed hybrid between 7th and 3rd edition. If I wanted to play 3rd edition I would pull out my rulebook and have at it.

Kirasu wrote:I think moving the events to quarterly will be the next step after seeing how many show up for this weekends event. If that doesn't work then I'll do semi-annually to boost anticipation

We always run our tournaments quarterly now, what sort of prizes are being offered? My group is fortunate in having an awesome shop who matches the entry fees with store credit so we draw more people from further away once word got out that you can win hundred or 200 dollars worth of stuff. Also don't be scared to advertise with nice fliers and a couple of posters. I also tend to draw up a list of rules about army composition rules, painting, sportsmanship ect. which tends to tone list down bringing more players out.

Kirasu wrote:As for 8th being the worst.. Eh I think 7th was pretty bad for reasons of army books being unbalanced. 8th books seem more balanced but a lot of units are deemed useless due to steadfast and needing 2 ranks to flank effectively. Thus to me the games seem fairly similar

Army book imbalance is a lot easier to handle than a bad set of core rules. Like I said earlier, Tuomas Pirinen did a much needed revamp of the WHF battles system for sixth. He got rid of the old system that was hero hammer and came up with one of Games Workshops best set of core rules for their flagship games. For some odd reason they selected the person who wrote the worst books of 6th and 7th Skaven and Daemons to help write the core rules and then wonder why people don't like it. My 2 cents any way.

And no matter how bad army imbalance is, it still allows for play at a high level, albiet with a diminished range of armies.

Having unpopular core rules means everybody waits 3-4 more years for the next edition.

Let's see how to get folks to come out.

How about a league style... set of tournaments that have a points system with a nice big prize at the end. (like a 2k army or something.) Also add random kinda big prize to keep the folks that are loosing coming back.

for example a 3 tournament series. each tourney at a higher point level. start with 1800 then a 2k tourney and the finale at 3k. Highest point winner wins a 2k army. random selected 2nd and 3rd prizes from everyone that participates in all 3 tourney's as well as smaller end of each tourney prizes. (top and a couple of random awards)

maybe something of that nature might attract folks participation

@isanti13

Firstly, I'm rending an opinion. I think its rather unfair to call my opinion far off. I'm entitled to it, you may not agree, but its still my own. 2ndly, i'm giving a few examples just to highlight things. As a bit of a back story: I've played skaven since 5th edition. My entire army is magnetized, interchangable, and as Mikhaila and many showcase comics patrons may know, is a heaviliy converted, albino, skyre themed list with flame based robes. I know my rules. 8th is less tactical in my opinion then 7th. In my opinion, and may people who have flat out quit, it is the least enjoyable version of warhammer yet. No where do I referenc emonsters in units, etc. I simply stated Cavalry as obsolete which I think they area. Lastly: where in any of my post do I quote rules? I don't get where you figuire out I don't know the game?

Some like the game. But I would suggest if you are looking to make a event worth while, consider more then 1 system. Have 40/WFB side by side, you increased your attendee pool, which greatly helps you recoup funding the event through venue and prize support.

While people appreciate prizes, big prizes do not attract people (least not the sort of people you want in your event). The staggered league/tournament series is a good idea - 1000, 1500 and 2000 points. It helps new players feel that they can jump in and take part in the events too.

RanTheCid wrote:While people appreciate prizes, big prizes do not attract people (least not the sort of people you want in your event).

I certainly appreciate you calling a lot of regular players who drive a couple of hours to come to our out "in the boonies tournaments" undesirable. We also keep our entry fees low between 5 and 10 dollars which makes it more attractive to casual players vs the 20-30 dollars I see some places charge for a piece of paper or a $2 resin statue spray painted gold.

The league idea while it may sound good is actually counter productive because if someone misses one of the tournaments why would they show up for the next one if they are not going to be in the running for the grand prize total. It's really no different from a pickup game except you are paying for it.

@Kirasu

How much do you charge for your tournaments, how big is the area you live in population wise, are there any other shops running them within a hundred miles? If you want to get more players there you have to offer them something they will want to come to. We also hit the pavement and make friends with gamers from other cities go to their tournaments and they will reciprocate, especially if you can offer good prizes to play for at a discount.

I personally dislike some of the magic spells and think steadfast is a bit broken.

Having lost a full unit of chariots, skeletons, SSC and casket of Souls to one purple sun was quite harsh and having a unit take 20 wounds but still get steadfast even though I engaged it in the front side and rear because he had some more ranks than me was quite frustrating...

I agree with limiting the potential for such "uber magic" and maybe modifying steadfast along with some of the VP rules. Also, maybe add a max occupancy to buildings.

Imho, 8th ed. Fantasy is still very good game. In early days of 8th ed. in poland was alot of crying about rules etc. But people get used to it - maybe its less tactical then 7th, and less complicated then 6th but still good.
I suggest you to check EURO comp. score - it balance some of the things quite good, maybe you will like it.

edit: not to mention 'clarifications', link to rules
http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=88755

Judging by the vehement poison spewed on here about 8th, I am glad those players quit. They simply do not get the point of 8th. Having fun.

Like every GW system ever.

Hell, it's rule #1.

It's not gonna be the same balance as other editions. It's going to be a different one. You just have to adjust the tactics. And yes, there are plenty of tactics.

And quit reading what the internet says 8th is. It's is not just all super spells and giant units. Check out the ETC for a reality check on fantasy and how it can work better. I run with 15 man units, cavalry, single character models alone... I HAVE been hit by big devastating spells and then next turn wiped out a hundred man unit in 1 round of combat.

Steadfast isn't that big a deal, not with the hexes in the game. You can kill the BSB and stop rerolls. Big units are generally low LD anyhow so who cares about the steadfast.

People really exaggerate the "negatives" don't they?

If you want to run a tourney, come here. We had a 9 man league, have 6 guys going to a fantasy tourney and only 4 to 40k. We had several guys pretty much quit 40k altogether for fantasy. I know the big city nearby, Calgary, is having the same boom. They had a fantasy tourney sell out in a couple hours and when 40k wasn't selling out, took their empty tables and added more fantasy players.

The game is alive and hugely well around the world.

I feel for you though man. My suggestions:

Add some non gaming events. Horse race, painting contest, kitbash from random bitz contest, trivia.

Don't ban all special characters, just certain ones: Teclis, Masque. Banning special characters that suck and not banning crazy units like ABombs makes no sense.

Don't worry about special terrain.

Don't use buildings or the watch tower scenario.

Don't worry about comp or, if you do, try ETC comp.

Feel your player base in the area. Are they hobbyists or gamers? If hobbyists, really push that aspect. Fully painted stuff, fun scenarios, use sports and painting. If gamers, push that. And start small. You don't need 100 guys to start. 6 is fine, honestly. Word of mouth spreads and you have more next time.

I appreciate that the internet hate machine is a potent force, but there's a difference between a person choosing not to enter a game because of internet hate, and to shelf an army with substantial time and money invested into it.

If, good or bad, it's not what a lot of WFB players want, than there's some sort of problem. If it attracts a new audience to recoup the lost veterans, than it's not.

Let's not pretend long time veterans are all fickle consumers turned off by hype.

njpc wrote:@isanti13

Firstly, I'm rending an opinion. I think its rather unfair to call my opinion far off. I'm entitled to it, you may not agree, but its still my own. 2ndly, i'm giving a few examples just to highlight things. As a bit of a back story: I've played skaven since 5th edition. My entire army is magnetized, interchangable, and as Mikhaila and many showcase comics patrons may know, is a heaviliy converted, albino, skyre themed list with flame based robes.

If your entire army is magnetized, then don't use that as a reason for hating on 8th edition

Dice Monkey wrote:

RanTheCid wrote:While people appreciate prizes, big prizes do not attract people (least not the sort of people you want in your event).

I certainly appreciate you calling a lot of regular players who drive a couple of hours to come to our out "in the boonies tournaments" undesirable. We also keep our entry fees low between 5 and 10 dollars which makes it more attractive to casual players vs the 20-30 dollars I see some places charge for a piece of paper or a $2 resin statue spray painted gold.

I don't know what you read, but that's not what I wrote.

Winning prizes is fun. Tournaments should have prizes and should be well matched against the cost of entry.

Some of the suggestions in this thread included handing out a full army or other large prizes as a way to encourage people to play the game. I've tried this sort of thing, and big prizes don't motivate people to start something new. In the worse case situation, the large prize will attract a few tools who will poison the environment for good.

RanTheCid wrote:
I don't know what you read, but that's not what I wrote.

I know exactly what you wrote, you conveniently repeated it in more vivid terms which I shall highlight for you.

RanTheCid wrote:Some of the suggestions in this thread included handing out a full army or other large prizes as a way to encourage people to play the game. I've tried this sort of thing, and big prizes don't motivate people to start something new. In the worse case situation, the large prize will attract a few tools who will poison the environment for good.

See you repeated it. To be honest I think I would pass on a tournament run by you, since you think everyone who comes in because they give better bang for buck will be a tool and poison your protected nerd ecosystem.

@ Dice Monkey - you seem to be confirming the hypothesis that tools are attracted by large prizes at tournaments.

I'll apologise straight off if I'm repeating something someone has said already - after things started degenerating into the 8th edition haters commenting I skimmed through a few posts. (I'm not going to get into a debate over the merits of 7th versus 8th - personally I find 8th no less enjoyable than I did 7th, even though my army got a minor nerf).

What you're seeing may just be down to your local area's preferences. You say you've only had a handful of people playing Fantasy in store for a while - that doesn't sound like the basis for a strong tournament scene. Does the store actually sell much Fantasy product? Are Fantasy gamers perhaps playing at a competitor's store? At the games club I go to things were pretty evenly split between 40k and Fantasy. Then after 8th launched it was nearly all Fantasy. Just a couple of months ago we were having to reshuffle tables mid-game to fit in some late arrivals (normally we have about 7 or 8 tables in use, in that period we were cramming in another 2-3) with things still predominantly Fantasy. On the flip side, at another club a gave a try which meets less than a mile from the one I go to, no-one played Fantasy - it was 40k, Heroclix, Hordes/Warmachine.

How far in advance do you advertise your tournaments? In getting information for my tournament listings website I've noticed that US stores often give quite short notice (a couple of weeks if that) of tournaments. That may be fine if you're just looking to hook in people from your local area but if your local fantasy scene isn't that big you may want to think about giving more notice as well as changing the format of the events as well to make it worth people coming from further away and being able to plan the trip.

If you think it might be the thought of playing pure 8th edition that's putting people off, I cannot strongly enough recommend using the South Coast GT comp pack. This was developed for the South Coast GT (as I'm sure you'll have guessed from the name) by Dan Heelan, Wayne Kemp (both of the Heelanhammer podcast fame) and Russ Veal. This is the biggest event on the UK Fantasy scene pulling in over 100 players (I believe the final total this year was over 140 players). Dan, Wayne and Russ' aim with the pack is to "take the edge off" some of the things that cause the imbalances in WFB. At this year's SCGT there were 10 different armies in the top 10 while at the Summer Incursion II, which used the same comp (albeit a slightly newer version) there were 9 different armies in the top 10.

RanTheCid wrote:@ Dice Monkey - you seem to be confirming the hypothesis that tools are attracted by large prizes at tournaments.

I gotta be honest, he seems a little overly sensitive (unless there's some off dakka drama going on), but you're being insulting in your comments.

I also don't think you can really back that hypothesis up, and here's why: even tools are rational beings. A large prize might make a local that wouldn't show up come to a tournament, but even a few hours of travel these days starts to cost real money in gas, not to mention the time it takes.

Unless the prizes are greatly out of proportion, most people aren't going to drop $50 in gas and $20 in entry fee just because they have a small chance to win a couple hundred bucks.

Yeah which is why I totally understand people from outside the area not coming.. Its expensive and apparently WFB doesnt invoke the same sense of excitement (at least around here)

I wish there was an easier way to up prize support is all

Here are the issues, as I see them:

1) Rules issues-
This is a lot like the 2nd to 3rd transition in 40k, meaning radical alterations to how the game is played. People abhor change, especially the tournament crowd who like to just "netlist daemons ftw!" (was "netlist brettonians ftw" back in 6th) and play by a flowchart. More randomness makes it harder for people who lack strong math skills to accurately assess risk on the fly. The new magic is irritating people, because everyone is stuck in "deathstar" mode right now and the kill spells seem a lot stronger than they actually are, because of this. Steadfast needs to be toned down, for certain, because its just encouraging deathstarhammer and rendering a lot of unit archtypes completely pointless (combat skirmishers, flanking cavalry, ect) in the game. Most of the other rules issues are debatable and will cease to be concerns once the whiners start adapting (ie copying what works from other people on the internet).

2) Delay in Codex Rollout-
Over a year from release until the first army book comes out is pretty inexcusable. Its hard, as an organizer, to keep fantasy fresh in people's minds when GW isn't even supporting it. This was further aggravated by choosing a book that was not as overdue for a rewrite and then making it not much different from its predecessors. I guess GW is content to milk 5000 types of space marines with different shoulderpads for sales, but fantasy needs constant updates to remain fresh. I know that we run fantasy at a loss and now with GW scaling back prize support, its getting harder to justify doing it. People will give you prize support for 40k. Fantasy, not so much. So, its largely suffering from GW's own lack of support, further enhanced by their new brilliant cone of silence marketting strategey.

3) Leftover Codex Creep-
The rules changes have pretty much killed the DoC and VC domination, but Skaven, DE, and Lizardmen are still broken as ever (Lizards got even more powerful) and their books are going to remain in circulation for a long time. Meanwhile, Beastmen were actually made worse and Orcs and Tomb Kings got modest upgrades (or sidegrades). Again, the two new books are not offering much new to the game, beyond "Take Snake Cav in place of Ushabti" type changes. The Ogre book does not look like it will buck this trend, with its "Take Kitty Cav in place of Rhinox Riders" minor change to that army. Compare that to the kind of impact that Dark Eldar and GK had on the 40k scene, with the new armies offering many different army build oppurtinities, and its not hard to see why you are not drawing a lot of new blood. Meanwhile, the double hydra DE players, Slavestar Skaven players, and Life Slaan Lizards are playing an entirely different game, with any revision to their books long off.

4) Barrier of Entry-
Any publess wonder can slap some Sash Mareeeenz! down on the table and get some play out of them. Fantasy is a much more major commitment, especially now with the strong encouragement to take large units to function. Add to that the general reluctance of old timers to alter existing armies to meet the needs of the new edition, and you have the current slow death fantasy is experiencing. New blood simply had no patience for building an army and the old farts are too stubborn to adapt. You are basically left with a minority of people who like/accept the new ruleset and are willing to adjust to it.

How do you fix it?
Good question. I wish I knew. So far, team tournaments have been our only consistant draw with SCGWL. QCR, the gold standard of GTs, still packs them in, but they have pretty women serving beer all weekend on the San Fran coastline. Even then, their numbers were down a tad from last year. Half the GTs I used to attend either no longer exist (GW Baltimore GT, GW Vegas GT, Tides of War) or have dwindled to half their former numbers on the fantasy side (ICGC GT, BSB). Our own event is holding steady in the mid 20s (typical, sadly, for an LA fantasy GT), but we used to draw double that for fantasy.

I am pretty much ready to do what the BSB people did and roll it into the same weekend as the 40k event, but a lot of our locals play both systems so this would likely make things worse. My best bet, going into this weekend, is runnign set terrain and just making sure everyone is having a good time. Making scenarios that discourage abusive armies is my other major gambit, but over 1/4th of the attendees are DE players, so the joke is on me I guess.

That is a great post, Phazael.

To the OP: mikhaila running a lowhammer with major (yet broad) restrictions got me to go to my first fantasy GT, and first fantasy tourney at all in some time.

I believe it was: No duplicate rares, no triple specials, no unit over 400 points, many #6 spells banned, certain special characters banned, some magic items banned, and daemons of chaos banned altogether (as they rule the local, or not so local, meta... and won all 3 top spots at the 'Ard Boyz semis at his store). Also a limit on how many warmachines or missile troops you could take. Damaged and fleeing units gave up some VPs.

They're listed here:
http://www.showcasecomicsandgames.net/dakkacon.htm

Slightly less popular was the "Freeman" for wood elves and free Green Knight for Brettonians. The free monster for beastmen and ogres seemed to have much less of an impact. But I thought it was a fun thing to try to help the underpowered codexes

Anyway, I think you have to get creative to draw out more folks discouraged with the new rules... but it can be done. I'm trying a tourney using more traditional rules this month in the Battle for Blobs Park, but I'd definitely love another crack at the type of event shown above.



Edit: About ETC- My problem with ETC restrictions is that they're TOO restrictive, and too army-specific, allowing much less flexibility in lists (imo, of course). It also makes my army illegal since I need a special character (Throgg).

ETC restrictions do not cause less flexibility. In fact, they probably help flexibility. When you don't have to deal with 2 hydras / 100 man slave blocks, you can take things like corsairs and still have a strong shot at winning.

Any set of restrictions eventually has lists gravitate towards the best few, but limiting the power choices (like ETC does) allows for some of the mediocre choices to be playable.

I do agree, however, that some of the less powerful special characters don't need to be banned.

I would recommend that you do fewer tourneys as has already been posted. It will make the community want to come to the 2 or 3 tourneys that you are running. Try to do an escalation league or campaing or combination of both to build them up and end it with a Storm of Magic Battle or something similar. It's one of the reasons we are not running a tourney out there every other month for 40k. You can induce 40k overload or dilute out the community by saying oh well, I can't make this one, but there is another next month or the month after. So we have gone to 2-3 times a year with a campaign supplement or something similar in the same time. You need to have a reason for people to start building an army and then go from there. Talk to Deathwolf as it is something we have been batting around as well. The campaigns / escalation leagues do work as long as they are supported throughout. Just give yourself time to lay everything out and enough time up front to do some PR work to get as many people in.

RanTheCid wrote:@ Dice Monkey - you seem to be confirming the hypothesis that tools are attracted by large prizes at tournaments.

It pains to see what passes for trolling on Dakka these days. Oh how I miss the days of bugswarm, DrewRiggio, and even mauleed. So yes people drive a hundred miles to my tourneys because I am a gigantic tool, and you're still fat and boring. You win.

Polonius wrote:I also don't think you can really back that hypothesis up, and here's why: even tools are rational beings. A large prize might make a local that wouldn't show up come to a tournament, but even a few hours of travel these days starts to cost real money in gas, not to mention the time it takes.

That is why you reach out and talk to people in real life. Go drive one weekend to another city and is it the gaming dens and talk with the locals. You would be surprised who will show up to play a game at your tournament when they personally know you.

Polonius wrote:Unless the prizes are greatly out of proportion, most people aren't going to drop $50 in gas and $20 in entry fee just because they have a small chance to win a couple hundred bucks.

If you run a good tournament, the people know you, and you give out decent prizes they will come to it. It is not that complicated. You actually have to want to push it though.

Kirasa wrote:
I wish there was an easier way to up prize support is all

Talk to your shop owner, see if you can get them to match or even give one half plus entry fees. They will still turn a profit and get people in the store. It's win-win.

You can try to tone down Magic and Steadfast a bit. For a lot of people, these are 8th's biggest problems, and IMHO an easy way to get people to come is to ban all the level 6 spells from the rulebook lores (Which are the only super-scary spells, barring stuff like Pit of Shades)

Prize support is obviously crucial, but I'd have to say that 8th as a whole has put off a lot of fantasy players, unfortunately, making tournaments less viable.

It surprises me really, I hated 7th's charge rules, as the game often became who could charge first. At least with the random elements and steadfast combats can last longer than the first turn.

[quote=Phazael
3) Leftover Codex Creep-
The rules changes have pretty much killed the DoC and VC domination, but Skaven, DE, and Lizardmen are still broken as ever (Lizards got even more powerful) and their books are going to remain in circulation for a long time. Meanwhile, Beastmen were actually made worse and Orcs and Tomb Kings got modest upgrades (or sidegrades). Again, the two new books are not offering much new to the game, beyond "Take Snake Cav in place of Ushabti" type changes. The Ogre book does not look like it will buck this trend, with its "Take Kitty Cav in place of Rhinox Riders" minor change to that army. Compare that to the kind of impact that Dark Eldar and GK had on the 40k scene, with the new armies offering many different army build oppurtinities, and its not hard to see why you are not drawing a lot of new blood. Meanwhile, the double hydra DE players, Slavestar Skaven players, and Life Slaan Lizards are playing an entirely different game, with any revision to their books long off.