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wuestenfux wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:Trygons are expensive. Shoot it with 4 meltas then charge it with 2 power fists. Will probably only lose 3 marines in the process.

Multi charge wrecks hordes. If 30 assault marines multi charge 90 orks its over for the orks. If each assault squad can average a combat res of 5 the total combat res should be about 15. A combat res of 15 would wound 45 boys because of fearless. No need for flamers.

In view of the Trygon, this beast can kill 6 (or 7 on the charge) Marines with rerolls to hit and to wound.
Orks fight an uphill battle when it comes to combat resolution, that's right.

Rerolls to wound=no big deal because it wounds on a 2+ anyways.

Rerolls to hit=Hive Tyrant is nearby (12" from the Trygon if I recall correctly), and taking out the tyrant should be the priority.

DOA versus nids when both players are good players=absolute bloodbath on both sides. The match up is a bloody but fair fight, and it's difficult for either side to squeeze out a victory.

Hold on a sec there, schadenfreude.

Technically, if your poisoned attack would wound on a 2+ with your str, you still have to take the poison 4+ roll, benefitting from a re-roll. A Trygon can't turn off its poison, so having poison worsens its chances of wounding T<5. For this reason, they usually don't bother with TG and just rely on brute force to smackdown infantry.

Trygons also have two sets of Scything Talons, which gives them re-rolls to hit in CC - even against vehicles with no WS. It's like PE, but better. They don't need a HT to massacre MEQ's in melee.

Nevertheless against DoA I would take care to ensure that any units that go for a Trygon kill will in turn be wiped out, so the general point you make about the fallout of engaging one of the beasts is a fair one.

As it happens, my MC of choice is a Tyrannofex or two. Vanguard with Power Fists definitely make them afraid, especially when supported with units that can soften me up.

When I played against Dantewing (Kill Points, Spearhead), my approach was to centrally castle inside a terrain ring with Genestealers in reserve (not outflanking!) and aim for going second; it made for tense scatter rolls on Deep Strikers, and enabled my Marine killers to respond to threats. Killing the Sanguinary Priests was absolutely vital, they need to be in large squads that won't see wounds allocated onto them from moderate gunfire and which can bubblewrap them from power weapons. This is definitely how I'd play again against an army such as yours in KP or C&C, with Ymgarls and Flankstealers going for your objective - and your Flamer squad being a high-priority target to neuralise.

I can see the value of trygons in an all comers list, but I don't see their value when fighting doa. Nid gunfire shouldn't be a concern for doa, except biovores. The best way for doa to handle nids is to start everything on the board and use speed to cluster the doa army on one side or up the middle bringing the full force of the doa army against 1/3 of the nids. Biovores are a real pain when attempting to do so because a pinned squad fall behind the main force and gets eaten by nids. Thankfully for most doa players biovores are a rare sight in all comers lists.

schadenfreude wrote:I can see the value of trygons in an all comers list, but I don't see their value when fighting doa. Nid gunfire shouldn't be a concern for doa, except biovores. The best way for doa to handle nids is to start everything on the board and use speed to cluster the doa army on one side or up the middle bringing the full force of the doa army against 1/3 of the nids. Biovores are a real pain when attempting to do so because a pinned squad fall behind the main force and gets eaten by nids. Thankfully for most doa players biovores are a rare sight in all comers lists.

In fact, doa can handle nids. For this, they should start at the board and utilize speed to redeploy and throw the whole force against part of the Nids. However, care must be taken when outflankers (Genestealers) arrive. This will limit movement a bit. Biovores can be taken care by Vanguard Vets who can eventually charge upon arrival.