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alarmingrick wrote:
I usually go with:
1 Manticore
2 Hydra
2 Demolishers *

* I'll rotate these for another Manticore, or 2 Medusa.

I agree about the decisions being a pain. but it's a good pain having so many GOOD choices!

I'm looking at running this exact loadout for my HS for a while. Sadly the Hellhound that I currently use is a tiny bit situational, whereas the Hydras will always be good against something all the time.

L. Wrex

I personally love Straken. He almost always earns his points back. He is an upgrade an not an independant character which is great. He is the only real close combat threat that the Guard has. He also gives the powerblobs a major boost. I go out of my way to charge 5 man terminator squads or Mordrak and his retinue. That stops their deepstrike mayhem immediately. I can lose a game but the look on an opponents face after losing an assault to IG totally makes up for the loss. Straken is also a vehicle or dread's nightmare with his Man of Admantium 2D on the pen roll.

I have found Ogryns to be one of the greatest disappointments in the game. My Lord Commissar got singled out and killed. This was then followed by my Ogryn squad failing their Ld 7 and getting wiped out with sweeping advance. I love their fluff, especially Nork, but in the game they just suck. I'm sure I'll try them again in a larger point game. I can never justify the points to use Yarrick.

Stormtroopers are hit or miss. Mostly miss for me. I like the suicide melta deepstrike, but I always seem to roll double 2's on the melta shots. After the power whiff I get decimated. Once in a while I'll blow something up.

I've found Vendettas to be the absolute best bargain in the game. They kill something every time I play, whether it be their lascannons or the melta vets they drop off. I'm sure they will get nerfed in the next codex. They draw a lot of fire which allows you to advance your Chimeras up the field unharassed.

Colossus - S6 AP3 ignores cover? I thought "Sign me up!" until I saw the fine print. This thing looks good, but it can't fire directly and has a minimum range of 36". That means Jump Infantry and anything that really wants to can close on you before you get a chance to hit it. And since it's ordinance barrage, you can't move and fire, so repositioning is a losing battle. Still, could be really good for a alpha strike.

Just wanted to correct this, Colossus has a minimum range of 24"

Byte wrote:

I watched general vehicle tactics, not necessarily IG tactics.

It may seem that way at first glance, but IG vehicles have a few unique characteristics.



Chimera chassis vehicles are relatively narrow, with phenomenal front AV12 for their price, but poor side armor. This makes them different from Rhinos, Razorbacks, Stormravens, Wave Serpents / Falcons, Raiders, Venoms, Valks/Vendettas, Land Raiders, and all other transports because directionality is critical. All of the aforementioned vehicles have the same AV on front and side armor. In addition, Chimera-chassis vehicles can be taken in squadrons, which allows you to play cover shenanegans.

Furthermore, they're different from some of the aforementioned units in that the access point is wide but only located on the back of the vehicle. This means that you have to be VERY very careful of placement, as it's very easy to kill off your passengers if your rear access point is blocked.

Lastly, they're also different from many transports in that they can combine AT and Anti-infantry fire on one cheap transport, so you have to know when you want to use the guys inside vs. using the vehicle's weapons to optimum effect, and the order in which both should be fired.




Really, the Chimera deserves an entire tactics article on proper use and employment of Chimera screens. In most of my games, I'm abusing the Angled Shots rule to give as many vehicles as possible a 3+ coversave, and it's rare that someone will get a shot on one of my vehicles without it being in a position of cover even on tables with minimal terrain.

This is what this thread should be about, IMO. Unconventional tactics. People always dog me for running Autocannons and mixed SW in my Vet squads. But they aren't putting out 2 autocannon shots at 48" and another 2 PG shots at 24", the whole time chillin' with a 3+ cover save.

Mortars, every time, save the day for me: at least 3, preferably 5, in cover behind your "front",work well as they either force your opponent to spread out, make him stay out of range, or suffer multiple kills/wounds.

If you can tie them in with an ordnance battery so that the various types' ranges overlap, your opponent has to work very hard just to get close enough to do you any damage.

Alright, a few of the things I have lerned about playing IG the way I do:

Reserves can be very effective. I place my infantry protecting my manticore and/or standard russ at the start of the game, keeping everything else in reserve (mech vets/ccs/vendetta/sentinels/riders/demolisher). Now, most opponents will try to close on this formation, in order to silence the manticore and get stuck into the infantry.

This is when the reserves come in. With an astropath a good amount should appear turn two. These can target the key points of the enemies army, causing no end of trouble. Sentinels outflank and usually manage to get rear AV10 shots. Rough riders can charge almost anything on your half of the table when coming on. The demolisher can also hit over half the table when it come in, helping to avoid range issues from poor deployment.

Against a ranged army the reserves have less effect but against ones that close quickly they can work wonders.

Another little favourite of mine: a SWS with three flamers in the vendetta. A very cheap choice that has won me a good amount of games. Unlike heavier hitting squads, the SWS doesn't have the pressure to get stuck in. This lets it hang around in the vendetta while it does its thing, swooping in at the last minute to flame some infantry or grab an objective.

NuggzTheNinja wrote:In most of my games, I'm abusing the Angled Shots rule to give as many vehicles as possible a 3+ coversave, and it's rare that someone will get a shot on one of my vehicles without it being in a position of cover even on tables with minimal terrain.

I don’t mean to call you out on this but I have just seen a lot of people play this wrong.

You have to have 100% of the facing the shooting unit is in be out of LOS, but still allow LOS to another facing. Unfortunately those turrets that stick up above the main part of the hull count for LOS to a facing a unit it in. Even though the hull of a chimera may be completely blocked by another chimera, if I can see the turret peaking up from behind that’s a 4+ cover save.

So you need something taller than the turret, and probably wider than the chimera, and completely solid to even try and get the 3+. Chimeras can virtually never do it to each other (unless two chimeras and the gun shooting at them are in a perfect line with each other, but even then the rear one is completely out of LOS, to see the side of the rear the tanks would have to be angled which will almost certainly expose the turret) and very few other tanks can pull it off.

Not that it’s impossible, but it’s extremely difficult and would probably require lots of disadvantageous maneuvering. I’ve played all of 5th and mech guard for a year and half and these rules (properly applied) have literally never come up.

I had angled shot come up the other day but I think I have only seen it once or twice. It was only because there was a ruin with blocked windows on the ground floor.

ArtfcllyFlvrd wrote:

NuggzTheNinja wrote:In most of my games, I'm abusing the Angled Shots rule to give as many vehicles as possible a 3+ coversave, and it's rare that someone will get a shot on one of my vehicles without it being in a position of cover even on tables with minimal terrain.

I don’t mean to call you out on this but I have just seen a lot of people play this wrong.

You have to have 100% of the facing the shooting unit is in be out of LOS, but still allow LOS to another facing. Unfortunately those turrets that stick up above the main part of the hull count for LOS to a facing a unit it in. Even though the hull of a chimera may be completely blocked by another chimera, if I can see the turret peaking up from behind that’s a 4+ cover save.

So you need something taller than the turret, and probably wider than the chimera, and completely solid to even try and get the 3+. Chimeras can virtually never do it to each other (unless two chimeras and the gun shooting at them are in a perfect line with each other, but even then the rear one is completely out of LOS, to see the side of the rear the tanks would have to be angled which will almost certainly expose the turret) and very few other tanks can pull it off.

Not that it’s impossible, but it’s extremely difficult and would probably require lots of disadvantageous maneuvering. I’ve played all of 5th and mech guard for a year and half and these rules (properly applied) have literally never come up.

No problem at all. It's easy to do with tall BLOS terrain. My FLGS has a good amount of the Cities of Death buildings. I run Autocannons and Plasma Guns in my vet squads so I can do this at range. Anyway, I find tall BLOS terrain, then deploy facing a static enemy unit (Dread, Fangs, or if I'm going first maybe a Ravager or something). I put the enemy core of fire support in my front arc, and slant the Chimera so that only the side and a tiny sliver of the top hatch is sticking out. This gives me enough room to draw uninterrupted LOS, but since the opponent can only see Side armor, but is in the front arc, he's giving me a 3+ coversave.

It's not always going to happen but I find that it usually comes up once or twice per game.

I noticed someone mentioning Ogryns being a letdown because of the Lord Commissar getting wasted and thus losing your leadership. As a result, I've painstakingly assembled the following images showing how to assault with them properly.

Unit is

5 Ogryn
Commissar Lord
Chimera

Total cost: 335

Purpose: Effective (if not expensive) tarpit. 15 T5 wounds means that it's an uphill battle to wipe it out with anything less than powerfists. It won't kill anything quickly, but it will keep it from going anywhere itself.

So, here's how you use it (in my mind). If anyone can come up with a better way of doing it, let me know and I will append mine.

Step 1, deployment:



Last turn you drove your chimera up 12" and popped smoke. Then enemy was unable to damage it due to the 4+ save. Even if he does wreck/explode it, there's no reason why you can't deploy in the same formation. This turn, you prepare to cause some damage. You deploy your Ogryn as close to the enemy as possible, and the Commissar AS FAR away as possible. Remember, we want him out of harm's way. The Commissar is barely within coherency with the unit, and the rest of the unit is at the very edge of the deployment bubble.

Step 2, assault:



We've now actually moved in. Rule Numero Uno: Move the IC LAST. Assault movement is very constrained as far as what your options are, but one of the great things about it is that, other than moving the closest model first, you're allowed to pick the order in which that your models advance. This means that you can get all of the Ogryn in such that they tie up every model that could move around to get in base to base with your Commissar, and then your Commissar 'tries' to get to the combat, but was too far back to participate. Oh shucks, right? Good thing we still get his leadership (and stubborn) for the purposes of the fight, right?

Step 3, Defenders react:



The Guardians couldn't move up close enough to get into combat with the Commissar, so they all piled around the Ogryn. The Commissar watches as his hyperthyroid musclebound superhumans tear apart the silly Xenos.

Next turn, he will need to consolidate, and get involved, of course, however, he has the luxury of being able to pick where he piles in, and and can avoid that pesky powerfist.

----


So to the detractors of the thread so far, is this more the kinds of stuff you're looking for? How can we make this better? Other than declaring what doesn't belong here, what kind of 'tactical' advice is it that you think actually DOES belong here?

I haven’t been detracting, but pictures like the above I think do help people.

But wouldn’t you have had to face your butt forward the previous turn to disembark like that? I think the picture would be more helpful coming out a destroyed chimera :0P

Okay, 'detractor' might have been a little bit more harsh than I had intended. I'm just trying to get a feel for what the people who are dissatisfied so far would like to see.

+++ CENSORED BY RULEQUISITION +++

daedalus wrote: As far as the position of the Chimera, you could have pivoted it this turn pre-disembarking. Pivoting doesn't count as movement, but you can't pivot if you can't move, right?

I believe the rule says “for the purposes of shooting”. My group has always taken that to mean pivoting = no moving/assault after a disembark.

But whether the chimera was wrecked or facing forward the spirit is still the same. Hang the commissar back so that he can’t be based after assault moves.

For anyone interested, Warseer has an amazing tactica PDF here that was put together by a number of posters.


Also, yeah, if you pivot, it doesn't count as movement for shooting, but it does count has movement for disembarking units, so keep that in mind.

ArtfcllyFlvrd wrote:

daedalus wrote: As far as the position of the Chimera, you could have pivoted it this turn pre-disembarking. Pivoting doesn't count as movement, but you can't pivot if you can't move, right?

I believe the rule says “for the purposes of shooting”. My group has always taken that to mean pivoting = no moving/assault after a disembark.

But whether the chimera was wrecked or facing forward the spirit is still the same. Hang the commissar back so that he can’t be based after assault moves.

Gah, you're right! Redacting from my earlier post. You could still pull up, spin around, and then pop smoke. That's still a pain to pop open most times.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Valkyrie Suckerpunch:

So this next one is going to require some background:

IG Faq wrote:
Q. How do you treat the Valkyrie base for gaming? Due to its height it seems that it is impossible for a Valkyrie to contest an objective, or for troops to disembark/embark normally.

A. Follow the rules in Measuring Distances in the Skimmers section in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook with the following exception: For the purposes of contesting objectives and embarking/disembarking from a Valkyrie or Vendetta, measure to and from the model’s base. For example, models wishing to embark within a Valkyrie can do so if at the end of their movement, all models within the unit are within 2" of the Valkyrie’s base.

So for the purposes of determining how far away you are during scout movement, it seems as though you measure to the Valkyrie hull, which is about 6" off the table, from what I recall. More than enough for our purposes.

Unit is

10 Veterans, Demolitions Doctrine
Valkyrie

Total cost: 200

Purpose: First turn suckerpunch. This is obviously situational, as it's dependent upon you going first, but for 30 more points, you can also give the squad meltaguns and have a not entirely worthless backup plan.

Step 1, Initial deployment:



Admittedly, I just slapped the Valk down on the 'board'. It's not a very realistic deployment for the situation, but it works.

Step 2, Scout move:



Move up to 24" flat out. This is where it gets a bit 'hinky'. You need be more than 12" away from the enemy, but you need to work your way in there as close as possible. Now, since you get 2" deployment from the BASE, and the hull is up in the air, you get some leeway as far as edging in there while still keeping the proper distance. In the situation I've constructed though, I think I gave every benefit of the doubt to giving the Rhino distance and I still got range. The highlighted circles are inches radius from the base, with the outermost one being 2" (the deployment radius)

Step 3, First turn, deploy from Valk:



As you can see from the ruler, we're within 12" inches. Now we bring the hurt. Since we didn't move the Valk this turn (as we scoutted), we can move/assault, which brings us to....

Step 4, BOOM:



And here is where I show that I've got 10 melta bomb hits on a vehicle that was stationary. They autohit and there realistically shouldn't be much left where it was standing.


I used a Rhino in this example which provides us with diminishing returns (unless you REALLY needed that rhino dead, anyway). However, there's no reason why this wouldn't apply equally well to a battlewagon, land raider, or vindicator, or whatever other scary tanks your opponent has brought. Beware that bubblewrap can counter this attack, as could positioning the vehicle of interest toward the rear of their deployment zone, but on the other hand, if you've intimidated them into changing their deployment style, you're already winning, right?

AV10 with 4+ cover is not hard to pop.

Assuming you get a hit/penetration, you have a 1/6 chance to get both: a 5 or 6 on vehicle damage, and fail the cover save. I'd consider an 16.6% chance per penetration of losing the vehicle slim. Regardless, say it blows up. What's it matter? You can deploy in the exact same formation still.

Regardless, I've updated it to reflect the worst case.

Willydstyle seems to have it in for this thread.

The first turn assault with demo vets can be good. But I think you really need a high priority target because you’re giving up the vet unit and probably the vendetta. You at least give up the vendetta’s first turn of shooting as you boost away to safety.

It can be worth it, but not always. Like what daedalus said, it’s situational.

I also would never shoot your melta guns if you are trying this tactic. You are still plenty likely to break something in cc, you may get super lucky and hit multiple things in cc (if your opponent is silly and deploys his tanks close enough), and by charging you create a speed bump for the opponent that they can’t walk through or get any extra movement out of. And if by some insanely poor luck you don’t blow up the target they have to tank shock through you, and a demo vet is the best model in the game to death or glory with. If you shoot and blow it up from 6 inches out, whatever is inside the one vehicle you choose to hit moves up, kills you, and ends their 1st turn close to mid field instead of in their deployment zone. In a game of spacial (apparently not a real word) relationships differences like that can win and lose games.

Just pointing out the bad advice, so that people can focus on the good.

Thanks Daedalus, I hadn't really considered the option of a first turn assault with a valk/ven.

I may have to reevaluate my opinion of them.

If you're facing a mech list, there's a good chance that they'll deploying a parking lot allowing you to assault more then one tank.

If you were feeling particularly evil, two or more of sets of vets in valks, could decide a game in the first ten minutes.

Thatguyoverthere wrote: Thanks Daedalus, I hadn't really considered the option of a first turn assault with a valk/ven.

I may have to reevaluate my opinion of them.

If you're facing a mech list, there's a good chance that they'll deploying a parking lot allowing you to assault more then one tank.

If you were feeling particularly evil, two or more of sets of vets in valks, could decide a game in the first ten minutes.

If you're going first, your opponent has a good chance of mitigating the tactic through deployment. If you're going second, your vendetta/valkyrie has to survive a full turn of shooting to pull it off, and your opponent has to leave his vehicles in assault range as well.

If you have the opportunity, it's devastatingly effective, but good players will not give you the opportunity.

My 2 cents on the Leman Russ Punisher:

I've ran it in several games without pask, and I have to say it's seriously underrated, especially if you run it with other russes. The main thing is that oppenents seem to ignore it with their AT if there are other LRBT or Demolishers on the field.

Each game I will look at what the opponent has, pick a unit that it will be most effective against, and then relentlessly go after that unit. It performs exceptionally against Demon Princes, Greater Demons, Tyranid Big Bugs, even C'Tan to some extent (each of these match ups were play tested). It is also very good against Long Fangs and puts enough wounds into MEQs to be effective support. I will say the tank wont be annihilating units like a lucky pie plate can, but it puts out a lot of wounds, which is good against both hordes and MEQs.

I will restate that the Punisher should only be fielded if you are already planning on fielding multiple russes. This will cause it to be farther down the target priority list due to people's inexperience with it and the constant bashing it takes on forums like these.

Personally I feel the Punisher is the second worst LR Variant, right be behind the Vanquisher, and right in front of the one with autocannons.

It's too limited by 24" range, I'll agree it's handy vs spread out mobs. However I'll take a LRBT + HB sponsons over it any day of the week.

I'll agree it's handy vs spread out mobs

Emphatically, no. I believe the problem is coming from people mistakenly believing that the Punisher is primarily an anti-mob weapon.

I've found in practice that it's only effective against MC's and at dumping wounds onto small squads. It's only truly efficient at anti-infantry against Orks, Warriors, or Gants out of cover. Even then, you'll probably only kill 4-6 per turn with the Gatling Cannon. Hardly a good use of it's firepower.

Concerning the Punisher, I genuinely believe that it's outclassed by two Hydras just as willydstyle mentioned back on the first page. I still don't like hydras especially, but I very much agree with his statement.

If you look at the math, assuming T4, 6+ save opponent (orks, gaunts):

4 tl autocannon shots = 3 hits on average, 2.5 wounds, ignores armor
3 heavy bolter shots = 1.5 hits on average, 1 wound, ignores armor

So you have 3.5 wounds/hydra. Two Hydras net you 7 wounds, and cost 150 points

The Punisher gets you:

20 gatling cannon shots = 10 hits, 6.66 wounds, after armor 5.55 wounds.
3 heavy bolter shots = 1.5 hits on average, 1 wound, ignores armor

So you have 7 wounds, and it cost 165 points. Not really much better.

Now for the same thing, except against a Hive Tyrant, so T6 and 3+ save:

4 tl autocannon shots = 3 hits on average, 2 wounds, 0.66 wounds.
3 heavy bolter shots = 1.5 hits on average, 0.5 wounds, 0.16 wounds.
Total: 0.82 wounds/hydra, for a total of 1.64 wounds. Thanks willydstyle!

The Punisher gets you:

20 gatling cannon shots = 10 hits, wounds, 3.33 wounds, after armor 1.11 wounds.
3 heavy bolter shots = 1.5 hits on average, 0.5 wounds, 0.16 wounds.
Total: 1.27 wounds.

So looking at this, the Punisher doesn't get you any additional killing power, and is indeed outclassed in guns alone when compared with two Hydras, which are also cheaper.

So, let's focus on what the Punisher DOES get you, if not killing power at range. As I see it, you get the ability to move while firing all the guns, allowing you to stay slightly more mobile, and you are much more durable than two Hydras are, first off because of the front AV12, and secondly because of the Hydras being squadroned.

The question then becomes whether this is worth paying 15 more points and trading in the firepower AND range. Since MCs are usually devastating when they actually get close to you, I'd say that the Hydras work out better. I would think the best thing to do if you're concerned about survivability would be to screen them with a chimera/hellhound/demolisher and enjoy the cover save rather than taking overpriced AV14 in exchange for firepower.

---

Concerning the Valk assault, being able to use it is really situational. My best advice concerning it is to bring the meltas as a backup plan. Toss your vet squad in the Valk and follow through with the assault if you are given the opportunity. If not, just use them like another meltavet squad and eat the 30 points of 'loss'. I definitely agree with ArtfcllyFlvrd that you shouldn't shoot the meltaguns if you actually can pull this off.

You did the math for 1 punisher vs. 1 hydra. 2 hydras, using your math, cause 1.64 wounds, vs. the punisher's 1.27, so the hydras still win.

willydstyle wrote:You did the math for 1 punisher vs. 1 hydra. 2 hydras, using your math, cause 1.64 wounds, vs. the punisher's 1.27, so the hydras still win.

Yeah, I forgot to multiply the end result by two. Serves me right for mathhammering during company training sessions. So much for the silver lining on the Punisher.

willydstyle wrote:
If you're going first, your opponent has a good chance of mitigating the tactic through deployment. If you're going second, your vendetta/valkyrie has to survive a full turn of shooting to pull it off, and your opponent has to leave his vehicles in assault range as well.

If you have the opportunity, it's devastatingly effective, but good players will not give you the opportunity.

I'm not sure how many opponents would be looking out for a first turn assault from guard. Even if he was prepared, I'm not sure there's much he could do.

If you deploy your valk 12 inches from your board edge, then turbo boost, 24 inches, then disembark,move and assault a total of 14 inches, there isn't going to be much room for the opponent to deploy. Especially if the opponent is running a mech list.

The opponent could go all reserve, but then you have the opportunity to take him apart piecemeal.

If he bubble wraps his tanks with infantry, then you still have a shooting phase to try and dislodge those squads in order to assault with the vets. Failing that, if you can just open small holes in his lines, you can try and multi assault past them or assault with another vet squad to pull the bubble wrapping squad away from the target tanks.

I would like to thank you personally for this thread Daedalus. This is the type of discussion is needed for every codex IMO.

The IG codex has lots of options, this thread is exactly what this forum needed. I am damn tired of Chimera/Vet spam, it's predictable, bland, overplayed and too effective to not take. I like the set up of these units, they're just overplayed.

I would consider myself an advocate of the Exterminator, its got strong armor, has decent twin-linked firepower and can fill quite a few roles in an army with the right combination of sponsons. It's a bit more expensive than Hydras, but it doesn't need to be babysat or hidden in a corner and has a smaller footprint than 2-3 Hydras. It can pick on transports, high cost, low count infantry squads and can do fairly well against MC's. I run mine with a LC or HB, and plasma cannons. The PC's do dirty rude things to infantry and transports.

Please continue this great thread.

Thatguyoverthere wrote:

willydstyle wrote:
If you're going first, your opponent has a good chance of mitigating the tactic through deployment. If you're going second, your vendetta/valkyrie has to survive a full turn of shooting to pull it off, and your opponent has to leave his vehicles in assault range as well.

If you have the opportunity, it's devastatingly effective, but good players will not give you the opportunity.

I'm not sure how many opponents would be looking out for a first turn assault from guard. Even if he was prepared, I'm not sure there's much he could do.

If you deploy your valk 12 inches from your board edge, then turbo boost, 24 inches, then disembark,move and assault a total of 14 inches, there isn't going to be much room for the opponent to deploy. Especially if the opponent is running a mech list.

The opponent could go all reserve, but then you have the opportunity to take him apart piecemeal.

If he bubble wraps his tanks with infantry, then you still have a shooting phase to try and dislodge those squads in order to assault with the vets. Failing that, if you can just open small holes in his lines, you can try and multi assault past them or assault with another vet squad to pull the bubble wrapping squad away from the target tanks.

There are a lot of things you can do. Don’t deploy on the line across from the valk for starters.

In order for this to work the valk/vend has to go in the center of the table. If you can castle up you can get for enough away that you’re completely out of the threat range. The funny thing is that armies that can castle up far away in a corner against guard and win probably aren’t especially scared of the valk rush. So you suicided a 130 pt vet unit and probably your vendetta to kill my 75pt razorback? I’ll take it!

Line your tanks up but about 3-4 inches apart with the one you want to protect slightly back. Because of the way the valk is built there is a specific way you need to move to pull off the rush. A tank 3 inches off either corner of your land raider, and your raider only a few inches back, is going to shut down all of the angles of attack.

Infantry screens are still ok, because the point it is to keep the scout move far enough away that the disembark is more than 12 from the tank. If the screen gets shot turn 1 it does matter because the scout move didn’t get the valk close enough for the assault.

In order for this to really work and make it worth while I would say your opponent must have either
A) A really killy unit in a landraider that will suck up an exorbitant amount of shots when it’s in your face (THSS termies come to mind). Or,
B) A wall of short ranged high armor targets in a squadron like leman russes.

Any other time the sacrifice just isn’t really worth the pay off. And even in those situation you need first turn and an opponent who doesn’t know how to stop it, or at least accidentally deploys allowing it.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Stormrider wrote:I am damn tired of Chimera/Vet spam, it's predictable, bland, overplayed and too effective to not take.

I disagree with bland, just because everything is mounted in a chimera doesn’t mean you can’t have a wide variety of units in the chimeras. But I understand where you are coming from. Predictable, possibly. Too effective, well that’s getting less and less true all of the time. The horror that guard was when it first came out does not exist anymore. With maybe only the exception of space marines and tyranids every 5th book has cheap, resilient, and incredibly effect ways of shutting down AV12.

I actually would be interested in reading some people’s comments on how they are coping with the proliferation of cheap S8 shooting and other new additions that the game that have been making the game harder for guard players. I think chimera/vendetta lists can still run with the big dogs but they are by no means THE big dog anymore (and haven’t been for some time).