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I think you should get the entire gaming community to shun the kid. When he comes into the store, nobody should talk to him or acknowledge his existence. If he starts talking to you, walk away. Same goes for the shop keep, he should stop selling the kid toy soldiers and then talk to his dad again and tell him that the kid needs to get out and play some sports or something else because toy soldiers don't sound to be his thing. If he starts posting on Dakka, find his user name and have the mods lock any and all threads before anyone can comment.

This is the only solution for a cheater.

boyd wrote:I think you should get the entire gaming community to shun the kid. When he comes into the store, nobody should talk to him or acknowledge his existence. If he starts talking to you, walk away. Same goes for the shop keep, he should stop selling the kid toy soldiers and then talk to his dad again and tell him that the kid needs to get out and play some sports or something else because toy soldiers don't sound to be his thing. If he starts posting on Dakka, find his user name and have the mods lock any and all threads before anyone can comment.

This is the only solution for a cheater.

Those are rather Draconian measures. How is someone supposed to learn in an environment like that? Should the cheating be tolerated? Absolutely not, but in order to deal with the cheater we, as a community, should not debase ourselves by resorting to bullying; either in person or on the internet.

boyd wrote:I think you should get the entire gaming community to shun the kid. When he comes into the store, nobody should talk to him or acknowledge his existence. If he starts talking to you, walk away. Same goes for the shop keep, he should stop selling the kid toy soldiers and then talk to his dad again and tell him that the kid needs to get out and play some sports or something else because toy soldiers don't sound to be his thing. If he starts posting on Dakka, find his user name and have the mods lock any and all threads before anyone can comment.

This is the only solution for a cheater.

This is a great solution if you're a passive-aggressive manbaby who can't deal with any kind of confrontation. Alternately if you're a grown adult you can talk to the kid and explain that you have no interest in playing him until he stops cheating.

Maybe manbaby wasn't the best use of term against another poser...

(I will however steal this one for use against my teenager)

Frazzled wrote:Maybe manbaby wasn't the best use of term against another poser...

(I will however steal this one for use against my teenager)

I dunno. If someone was scared to talk to a kid about cheating, 'manbaby' could be a fitting title

Wow. The kid is 13 years old. Someone should spend some quality time with the kid and enforce the importance and value of playing the game with integrity over the value of “winning”. Sounds like a good opportunity to have a positive impact on a kid and do some hobby mentoring ..

Everyone seems to be chiming in, so why not. I would ban him from the next tournament, then allow him to come to the next one if he can play a fair game with someone credible at your store to assure he learned, if he did not, do not allow him to enter tournaments till he matures or some other divine intervention.

muwhe wrote:Wow. The kid is 13 years old. Someone should spend some quality time with the kid and enforce the importance and value of playing the game with integrity over the value of “winning”. Sounds like a good opportunity to have a positive impact on a kid and do some hobby mentoring ..

And thats "One to grow on"

Slightly off-topic, but I was playing against a WoC army in the school league, and I shot 26 shots at his lone chaos sorcerer, caused seven wounds, he told me that his sorcerer had no armour, I didn't realise till after the event, that a chaos sorcerer has chaos armour as standard. OOOPS! I turned it into a pincushion, a magical one at that

Say the kid can play if the father is supervising his play and correcting rules issues and keeps him on track. All kids lie. it is a natural response. The father needs to keep him on the rules and show him how to win or lose and not cheat or lie.

Brother Ramses wrote:So as long as you are out of the money, it is ok to cheat? I just want to get your point clear.

No dude, he's not saying it is okay to cheat, he is just telling you not to worry about it as that kid was already losing, and that the TO already new what he was doing.

Really!.... I think the point was “Blatant cheating". Putting the misinterpretation or lack of knowledge of the rules aside; this seems to be a Behavior not an isolated incident. From what I gleamed the opportunity to address this kids behavior has happened on many prior occasions and yet has not resulted in a “correction”.
IF this “child” cannot redress his behavior, either thru his own actions or his parents then he should be banned. This is teaching that cheating, lying and poor sportsmanship are not punishable (being of any serious consequences – talking to by parents isn’t doing anything) and acceptable (rewarded) if you pull it off. Actions should have consequences!
To alleviate the “you offered no suggestion” crowd. I’d ban the kid from playing by himself. He could play along with his father in order to give his father the opportunity and responsibility to teach his son some apparent needed personal skills. After a period of time he can be let back in on a trial basis with the condition that any serious infraction results in a further ban. good call Nkelsch.
As well to those who say .. he wasn’t in the position to affect the outcome.. I say ..this time. We participate, work hard, study, practice and with some luck and skill become victorious. It’d be a different matter if you were the one he maligned. I don’t care if you beat me, just do it honorably.
This is a game; no one is suggesting that this kid can’t reform. It just that it’s not the other player’s responsibility to do so, nor is having everyone else’s experience ruined by poor and unacceptable behavior. Hopefully word will spread and he will start to feel the “pressure” to be a better player or find some other way to spend his time.
Obviously, it's the TO’s call .. My 2cents

Personally using a Derogatory (manbaby) name to judge another users intention is childish, weak and adds nothing to the discussion. If you want to elevate your arguement, try reinforcing your position, not with name calling.

I think a ban is fair punishment given the situation. If you don't want to ban the kid, then allow him to play under supervision of his Dad since he plays and, presumably, knows the rules. If the kid can play honestly for a few tourneys, then he can play unsupervised like anyone else.

Janthkin wrote:If he was 2-1, and it was a win/loss format, he was already out of the money.

What about the two guys he beat that he quite possibly should not have beaten?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Ramses wrote: In this case, the kid's opponent did a doublecheck and noticed that the Russes had not paid for heavy bolter sponsons and that there were no heavy weapon teams with lascannons among other discrepencies.

That same game he tried swapping out one of his heavy support big guns for another

What are your WYSIWYG standards like? It sounds like they're fairly lax. WYSIWYG stops this pretty well.

OverwatchCNC wrote:

boyd wrote:I think you should get the entire gaming community to shun the kid. When he comes into the store, nobody should talk to him or acknowledge his existence. If he starts talking to you, walk away. Same goes for the shop keep, he should stop selling the kid toy soldiers and then talk to his dad again and tell him that the kid needs to get out and play some sports or something else because toy soldiers don't sound to be his thing. If he starts posting on Dakka, find his user name and have the mods lock any and all threads before anyone can comment.

This is the only solution for a cheater.

Those are rather Draconian measures. How is someone supposed to learn in an environment like that? Should the cheating be tolerated? Absolutely not, but in order to deal with the cheater we, as a community, should not debase ourselves by resorting to bullying; either in person or on the internet.

Why not? Who knows, with the right carrot in front of him, he may end up changing is his lying and cheating ways. Shunning has always worked for the Amish.

I guess you are unaware of the finer points of satire. For that I am truly sorry.

Corrode wrote:

boyd wrote:I think you should get the entire gaming community to shun the kid. When he comes into the store, nobody should talk to him or acknowledge his existence. If he starts talking to you, walk away. Same goes for the shop keep, he should stop selling the kid toy soldiers and then talk to his dad again and tell him that the kid needs to get out and play some sports or something else because toy soldiers don't sound to be his thing. If he starts posting on Dakka, find his user name and have the mods lock any and all threads before anyone can comment.

This is the only solution for a cheater.

This is a great solution if you're a passive-aggressive manbaby who can't deal with any kind of confrontation. Alternately if you're a grown adult you can talk to the kid and explain that you have no interest in playing him until he stops cheating.

I'm still an adult and I play with my little toy soldiers. If this makes me a man-baby, then so be it. If you know me, I don't stay away from confrontation - that said, I only fight battles I will win. There is no use in kicking a dead horse.

If I may, I would suggest that you read some satire. I do have a proposition that could end world hunger and cut down on the homeless population as well. I mean if you're into that sort of thing...

Again, I think I have made my point but apparently not. This whole post was set out to point fingers at some pre-teen child and bully them because of their misdeed. I noticed how they didn't go to him directly and they went to his father instead of taking up their issues with him directly and telling him these are going to be the consequences of your actions and why. Now they come on to a public forum and continue to bash and bully the kid with the sense of OMG this messed up the entire tournament and ruined my day. What should have happened in this case was the OP shouldn't air his dirty laundry and just let it be. If the event was fun, support it next year. If it wasn't because cheating was rampant, come up with a few ideas on how to solve the issue at hand. If they hold the event next year, go back and see what changes have been made and decide then if you want to go. Next, the shop/TO should tell the kid to knock it off and make him type out his list and proof it before the next event he's in. Then, photo copy or have him bring a copy to provide to each opponent. This should be a standard practice though FOR EVERY PLAYER IN THE TOURNAMENT though as it makes the game go by much faster as you have less to explain. If the list is approved by the TO, then its the TO's problem after that. The tournament should provide each table a packet as to how to score EACH game. Each player's score card should match their opponents (ie they should double check each other). If there are problems with scoring, the TO should come by and score the end result from the game. End of story. Coming online and airing this kind of dirty laundry is disturbing and should not be tolerated. Have you ever played a cheater? Yes, would you play them again? Some I would, some I wouldn't. Take the time to push the kid in the right direction. Otherwise, our next option is to shun them, and shun them I will.

boyd wrote:

OverwatchCNC wrote:

boyd wrote:I think you should get the entire gaming community to shun the kid. When he comes into the store, nobody should talk to him or acknowledge his existence. If he starts talking to you, walk away. Same goes for the shop keep, he should stop selling the kid toy soldiers and then talk to his dad again and tell him that the kid needs to get out and play some sports or something else because toy soldiers don't sound to be his thing. If he starts posting on Dakka, find his user name and have the mods lock any and all threads before anyone can comment.

This is the only solution for a cheater.

Those are rather Draconian measures. How is someone supposed to learn in an environment like that? Should the cheating be tolerated? Absolutely not, but in order to deal with the cheater we, as a community, should not debase ourselves by resorting to bullying; either in person or on the internet.

Why not? Who knows, with the right carrot in front of him, he may end up changing is his lying and cheating ways. Shunning has always worked for the Amish.

I guess you are unaware of the finer points of satire. For that I am truly sorry.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Corrode wrote:

boyd wrote:I think you should get the entire gaming community to shun the kid. When he comes into the store, nobody should talk to him or acknowledge his existence. If he starts talking to you, walk away. Same goes for the shop keep, he should stop selling the kid toy soldiers and then talk to his dad again and tell him that the kid needs to get out and play some sports or something else because toy soldiers don't sound to be his thing. If he starts posting on Dakka, find his user name and have the mods lock any and all threads before anyone can comment.

This is the only solution for a cheater.

This is a great solution if you're a passive-aggressive manbaby who can't deal with any kind of confrontation. Alternately if you're a grown adult you can talk to the kid and explain that you have no interest in playing him until he stops cheating.

I'm still an adult and I play with my little toy soldiers. If this makes me a man-baby, then so be it. If you know me, I don't stay away from confrontation - that said, I only fight battles I will win. There is no use in kicking a dead horse.

If I may, I would suggest that you read some satire. I do have a proposition that could end world hunger and cut down on the homeless population as well. I mean if you're into that sort of thing...

I had no idea Jonathan Swift was a contributing member of Dakka.

[quote=OverwatchCNC
I had no idea Jonathan Swift was a contributing member of Dakka.

Haters gonna hate

Its all good, in fact I was smiling when I responded. Some people make me think there is hope for the human race.

Yehhhh Lets burn him and disembowl him and put eyelashes in his eyes.

Really? Seriously guys; Is this a Troll Thread?

Ok, to those over 16 years old on this thread who are flaming this kid hang your damn heads in shame and look forward to a life of "Creepy Checks" for every job you go for.

To the OP, if i was this kids dad i would be beating the hell out of you for your unhealthy interest in my child.

Im OTT? Not really.
Here is the facts...
The child is a child, yes a child. Children do these things and whilst its annoying and it can piss you off its a fact of life.
His father when alerted seems to take very pro active action against his son.
The TO seems more than able to take a firm view of the child.
Actually the only person who seems to have a problem is bully boy OP who if it happens again will probably demand the electric chair.

I honestly cannot believe others are asking for him to be shunned by everyone else also.
Do you really want a future suicide stat on your consience?

I will say the next part as clear as i can....

IT IS A GAME, A GAME, NOTHING MORE, WINNING OR LOSING BY FAIR MEANS OR FOUL WILL HAVE NO EFFECT ON YOUR SAD, PATHETIC SEXLESS LIFE IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM.

Here is another thing.
Instead of wanting to alienate the child, might i be so bold as to make an incredibly evocative suggestion?

Why dont you all try and be a little nicer to him and teach him how to play properly?
Help him with his lists, etc.

Im sorry to say folks but some of the posters on this thread are a goddam sorry excuse for a human being.

You are right, kind of, but it is fair to be upset at someone for cheating.

If a 13 year old (which I am) comes to play warhammer 40k with adults, he has to accept the responsibilities and the fact that he wont be coddled.
People come to a tournament to actually have a fun competetive game, and don't have to deal with some teen who is cheating.

Also, don't use to many caps, and personal insults to these people are not cool.

GBDarkAngel wrote:Yehhhh Lets burn him and disembowl him and put eyelashes in his eyes.

Really? Seriously guys; Is this a Troll Thread?

Ok, to those over 16 years old on this thread who are flaming this kid hang your damn heads in shame and look forward to a life of "Creepy Checks" for every job you go for.

To the OP, if i was this kids dad i would be beating the hell out of you for your unhealthy interest in my child.

Im OTT? Not really.
Here is the facts...
The child is a child, yes a child. Children do these things and whilst its annoying and it can piss you off its a fact of life.
His father when alerted seems to take very pro active action against his son.
The TO seems more than able to take a firm view of the child.
Actually the only person who seems to have a problem is bully boy OP who if it happens again will probably demand the electric chair.

I honestly cannot believe others are asking for him to be shunned by everyone else also.
Do you really want a future suicide stat on your consience?

I will say the next part as clear as i can....

IT IS A GAME, A GAME, NOTHING MORE, WINNING OR LOSING BY FAIR MEANS OR FOUL WILL HAVE NO EFFECT ON YOUR SAD, PATHETIC SEXLESS LIFE IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM.

Here is another thing.
Instead of wanting to alienate the child, might i be so bold as to make an incredibly evocative suggestion?

Why dont you all try and be a little nicer to him and teach him how to play properly?
Help him with his lists, etc.

Im sorry to say folks but some of the posters on this thread are a goddam sorry excuse for a human being.

I like this. The whole cheating kid thing is whatever, help him like the above suggested, but if he doesn't accept it or continues refuse to play with him until hes fixed his damage.

Remulus wrote: You are right, kind of, but it is fair to be upset at someone for cheating.

If a 13 year old (which I am) comes to play warhammer 40k with adults, he has to accept the responsibilities and the fact that he wont be coddled.
People come to a tournament to actually have a fun competetive game, and don't have to deal with some teen who is cheating.

Also, don't use to many caps, and personal insults to these people are not cool.

WTF.....OMG....Right, thats it.....Bed now without any supper.

I have an idea. Why doesn't his dad make sure he only brings the models that are on his list? I have a 14 year old and she would never pull something like this. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that telling the father isn't going to accomplish much. He's obviously not doing a stellar parenting job to begin with.

ChainswordHeretic wrote:I have an idea. Why doesn't his dad make sure he only brings the models that are on his list? I have a 14 year old and she would never pull something like this. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that telling the father isn't going to accomplish much. He's obviously not doing a stellar parenting job to begin with.

From the description I doubt the kid is adhering strictly to WYSIWYG in the first place.

If that was me and it continued after it was pointed out to his father ,I would ban his father from playing until his son cleans up his act.


If you keep punishing someone and it doesn't work or they don't 'get it' then you have to punish the people around him. If that doesn't make him change his ways so he doesn't screw over his own father, then the kid is clearly a sociolpath and needs to be offed now so that his genes dont contaminate the rest of us.

GBDarkAngel wrote:Yehhhh Lets burn him and disembowl him and put eyelashes in his eyes.

Really? Seriously guys; Is this a Troll Thread?

Ok, to those over 16 years old on this thread who are flaming this kid hang your damn heads in shame and look forward to a life of "Creepy Checks" for every job you go for.

To the OP, if i was this kids dad i would be beating the hell out of you for your unhealthy interest in my child.

Im OTT? Not really.
Here is the facts...
The child is a child, yes a child. Children do these things and whilst its annoying and it can piss you off its a fact of life.
His father when alerted seems to take very pro active action against his son.
The TO seems more than able to take a firm view of the child.
Actually the only person who seems to have a problem is bully boy OP who if it happens again will probably demand the electric chair.

I honestly cannot believe others are asking for him to be shunned by everyone else also.
Do you really want a future suicide stat on your consience?

I will say the next part as clear as i can....

IT IS A GAME, A GAME, NOTHING MORE, WINNING OR LOSING BY FAIR MEANS OR FOUL WILL HAVE NO EFFECT ON YOUR SAD, PATHETIC SEXLESS LIFE IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM.

Here is another thing.
Instead of wanting to alienate the child, might i be so bold as to make an incredibly evocative suggestion?

Why dont you all try and be a little nicer to him and teach him how to play properly?
Help him with his lists, etc.

Im sorry to say folks but some of the posters on this thread are a goddam sorry excuse for a human being.

I am gonna guess you are a cheater as well with your defense above of this kid.

Here is the deal, his dad is a frequent gamer and so has the kid for the past two years. The kid is 13, going on 14, so at what point is telling him not to cheat needed? You act as if this is a toddler taking his first steps and people are jumping on him for stumbling. He isn't, he is a habitual cheater that people wont even play a friendly game against because of his reputation. The first time I ever played against him was in tournament play and complete strangers came up to me to warn me and be sure and check his codex and list.

The store recently had another IG player disappear from the store after it was discovered he had been cheating as well. That kid was 17yrsin old. Do you think maybe someone probably sbould have stopped him w3yrs prior to when he was finally caught? So what is the problem with telling this kid's dad that his son is making him look like a gakky parent? Or that his kid is going to get both of them banned from tournament play?

And that is the issue, tournament play is tournament play. Paying $30-$50 bucks on an entry fee to find out that some kid was being a jerkoff during the course of the tournament is crap. The prize support from the store was pretty damn good beyind just overall and best general; Best Sportsman scored 3 boxes of Wolfguard in TDA and last place got an Ork Battleforce. There were individual match challenges that scored you $20 gift certificates like first opponent HQ kill or worse dice roll. But yea, you are totally right that with that type of financial commitment on both the player and owners part that cheating should be accepted.

And as has been pointed out, this is not a case of,

"I am a kid and didt know that cheating was wrong!!"

Seriuosly you sound like a liberal parenting advocate that wants to excuse the cheating through some psychobabble about him not getting enough hugs at home. The kid cheats to win to get prize support, simple as that.

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:
If that was me and it continued after it was pointed out to his father ,I would ban his father from playing until his son cleans up his act.


If you keep punishing someone and it doesn't work or they don't 'get it' then you have to punish the people around him. If that doesn't make him change his ways so he doesn't screw over his own father, then the kid is clearly a sociolpath and needs to be offed now so that his genes dont contaminate the rest of us.

.

Interesting way of thinking this one out.

First of all lets get what the official term is for this disorder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder

Does this fit the child?

Not quite since he is too young for being diagnosed as such

The TO handled it the way he thought it would be best for the event. Other TO's such as myself might have handled the situation differently.

Brother Ramses wrote:
I am gonna guess you are a cheater as well with your defense above of this kid.

Pot calling Kettle black as you have frequently endorced cheating for an advantage in YMTC threads... Don't call people cheaters because they don't agree with you.

Here is the deal, his dad is a frequent gamer and so has the kid for the past two years. The kid is 13, going on 14, so at what point is telling him not to cheat needed? You act as if this is a toddler taking his first steps and people are jumping on him for stumbling. He isn't, he is a habitual cheater that people wont even play a friendly game against because of his reputation. The first time I ever played against him was in tournament play and complete strangers came up to me to warn me and be sure and check his codex and list.

If you check his list and hold him to what is on his list, what is the problem? Sure it is unpleasant, but you still have to play him in the tourney.

The store recently had another IG player disappear from the store after it was discovered he had been cheating as well. That kid was 17yrsin old. Do you think maybe someone probably sbould have stopped him w3yrs prior to when he was finally caught? So what is the problem with telling this kid's dad that his son is making him look like a gakky parent? Or that his kid is going to get both of them banned from tournament play?

How was he 'caught cheating after 3 years'? Sounds like a lot of cheaters around you... makes me suspect your accusations and the serious business you are depicting.

And that is the issue, tournament play is tournament play. Paying $30-$50 bucks on an entry fee to find out that some kid was being a jerkoff during the course of the tournament is crap. The prize support from the store was pretty damn good beyind just overall and best general; Best Sportsman scored 3 boxes of Wolfguard in TDA and last place got an Ork Battleforce. There were individual match challenges that scored you $20 gift certificates like first opponent HQ kill or worse dice roll. But yea, you are totally right that with that type of financial commitment on both the player and owners part that cheating should be accepted.

The TOs know if someone is having problems or 'cheating' and they don't win anything. usually those people rank so low they win nothing... and if they do win something thet TO drops the score so they don't win.

And as has been pointed out, this is not a case of,

"I am a kid and didt know that cheating was wrong!!"

Seriously you sound like a liberal parenting advocate that wants to excuse the cheating through some psychobabble about him not getting enough hugs at home. The kid cheats to win to get prize support, simple as that.

No... You claim the kid who is cheating is somehow invalidating the results that prevented *YOU* from getting prize support, so what seems like it is being handled by the TO, you have made a huge crisis because *YOU* deserve cash and prizes you didn't earn. Sounds like the TO and the father had it well under control and you didn't get any swag and you blame the kid.

I do think it is interesting you are pre-inspecting lists when you claim you never have to share transport contents in the first place... Lots of cheating going on in your gaming circle it seems...

Brother Ramses wrote:I am gonna guess you are a cheater as well with your defense above of this kid....

Seriuosly you sound like a liberal parenting advocate that wants to excuse the cheating through some psychobabble about him not getting enough hugs at home. The kid cheats to win to get prize support, simple as that.

<enough; people can disagree with you, and you don't have to resort to name-calling or unfounded accusations as a response. Tone it down, or lose the ability to discuss the issue.>

First of all trying to inject the Note on Secrecy debate into this thread is laughable. You couldn't even point to any RAW that supported identifying squads by how they were equipped or the RAW that supported the stance that models had to be displayed on the table when not in play.

My goal for this tournament ended in round 3 when I lost. I had grand visions of getting to play Blackmoor which ended with that loss. The only prize supported I wanted was the Best Sportsman which was three boxes of WGTDA. My loss was to the person that won Best Sportsman and he practically oozed it all over the table so it was completely warranted.

List babysitting a know cheater is not part of the game. If you want to do that in a friendly game, feel free. In a tournament where the matches are determined by pairings and win/loss, getting paired to someone that needs to be babysat through a game is crap.

GBDarkAngel wrote:I will say the next part as clear as i can....

IT IS A GAME, A GAME, NOTHING MORE, WINNING OR LOSING BY FAIR MEANS OR FOUL WILL HAVE NO EFFECT ON YOUR SAD, PATHETIC SEXLESS LIFE IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM.

Well, you've already had your hat handed to you by a nice, well-written 13 year old, but I thought it might bear thinking about that the same rationale can also be applied to forum discussions. IT'S A FORUM THREAD, JUST A THREAD, NOTHING MORE. YELLING OR BERATING OTHER POSTERS WON'T MAKE YOU LOOK MORE MANLY OR MATURE THAN THE PEOPLE YOU CALL SAD OR PATHETIC.

Let's keep it all in perspective, shall we? Sometimes someone gets emotional and posts something a bit too heated, but that doesn't excuse others doing the same. Two wrongs not making a right and all that, 'eh chaps?