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Holy_doctrine wrote:
I agree, though which Caster to perma kill is the question. Now, they could progress the Magnus/Cain story in which Magnus unveils the true Heir to the throne and causes a civil war. A civil war in Cygnar would set up a great story line.

As long as they killed a few of them (not just 1 faction) then I think it wouldn't be a bad idea. I think they are progressing in the direction of a civil war, I just don't think it will start in the next book - as they need to finish this whole Cryx invading everywhere plot.

Holy_doctrine wrote: I agree, though which Caster to perma kill is the question.

Stryker.

Guy's a douche.

I second the vote for Styrker. Overall I'm pretty happy with the fluff. Agreed it isn't the greatest and most well written but overall i like it. I think the main thing I like is that there is at least some progression going on in the fluff and between the books.

They need to do is perma kill someone would least, expect in a suitably tragic fashion (like Gwen Stacey from Amazing Spiderman). They shouldn’t just kill someone for the sake of killing but rather use the tragedy to propel the storyline forward.

Honestly I think someone from Cygnar would be the best bet as part of a big storyline involving the Cygnar throne and Vinter.

If by 'Perma' killed you mean there rules are no longer tournament playable then

No Caster should be Perma Killed

If we are just talking lore wise then sure, kill off Styrker b[b]ut removing a character from the game is a BAD idea

Sparks wrote:If by 'Perma' killed you mean there rules are no longer tournament playable then

No Caster should be Perma Killed

If we are just talking lore wise then sure, kill off Styrker b[b]ut removing a character from the game is a BAD idea

They're just talking fluff.

I expected Stryker to die back in Legends. His death would have been more
meaningful than him "holding up heavy stuff and redeeming himself."

I mean lore wise. Essentially a character who has been killed off would function like Captain Tycho from the 40k Blood Angels codex (where the character has been killed off in fluff but still playable in terms of rules).

I think Stryker is a good choice. He’s tied to a lot of the man Cygnar story lines and most players know of him given his presence in the starter kit. Depending on how its done, it could have a lot of wow/shock value amongst the fan base. PP could also release a dramatic rescuplt to tie in with it.

candy.man wrote:I mean lore wise. Essentially a character who has been killed off would function like Captain Tycho from the 40k Blood Angels codex (where the character has been killed off in fluff but still playable in terms of rules).

I think Stryker is a good choice. He’s tied to a lot of the man Cygnar story lines and most players know of him given his presence in the starter kit. Depending on how its done, it could have a lot of wow/shock value amongst the fan base. PP could also release a dramatic rescuplt to tie in with it.

Is Gaspy still dead (as in, killed in his Iron Lich form), or has that been retconned. Last I remembered he was killed in the fluff. But just like Tycho is still playable.

Asphyixous is a Lich Lord currently and is going to have a third version brought out next year. So he's around and having fun. When did he die? Excluding the time he chucked himself in the volcano (nutter).

Holy_doctrine wrote:

candy.man wrote:I mean lore wise. Essentially a character who has been killed off would function like Captain Tycho from the 40k Blood Angels codex (where the character has been killed off in fluff but still playable in terms of rules).

I think Stryker is a good choice. He’s tied to a lot of the man Cygnar story lines and most players know of him given his presence in the starter kit. Depending on how its done, it could have a lot of wow/shock value amongst the fan base. PP could also release a dramatic rescuplt to tie in with it.

Is Gaspy still dead (as in, killed in his Iron Lich form), or has that been retconned. Last I remembered he was killed in the fluff. But just like Tycho is still playable.

Gaspy didn't die, his body was destroyed temporarily. His phylactery was never destroyed, which is what needs to happen to kill a lich, even in the Iron Kingdoms(the Seacat has confirmed they still have phylacteries).

As evidenced by Haley killing a Lich Lord. The guy didn't have time to find somewhere to hide his soul (phylactery) and Haley managed to piece it with her spear and destroyed him.

yastobaal wrote:As evidenced by Haley killing a Lich Lord. The guy didn't have time to find somewhere to hide his soul (phylactery) and Haley managed to piece it with her spear and destroyed him.

Yep. Which is why traditionally, Lichs don't keep it near them.

Unfortunately, the cut throat politics of the Lich Lords that Toruk has fostered means that they can't trust that it's safe if it isn't nearby.

yastobaal wrote:Asphyixous is a Lich Lord currently and is going to have a third version brought out next year. So he's around and having fun. When did he die? Excluding the time he chucked himself in the volcano (nutter).

I guess I misunderstood Epic Skarre's story line. When she and Terminus defeated Gaspy I assumed that meant sword in face. But apparently not.

Holy_doctrine wrote:

yastobaal wrote:Asphyixous is a Lich Lord currently and is going to have a third version brought out next year. So he's around and having fun. When did he die? Excluding the time he chucked himself in the volcano (nutter).

I guess I misunderstood Epic Skarre's story line. When she and Terminus defeated Gaspy I assumed that meant sword in face. But apparently not.

It did, but again, you can do whatever you want to a Lich's body, but if you can't destroy their phylactery, it means exactly squat but the inconvenience of lacking a body temporarily.

PP has been pretty upfront since the beginning stating that they will not kill off their main characters. And while this does take away from the feeling of danger for the characters, the fluff is far from static.

Cygnar has lost a large chunk of it's Northern territory, one of it's cities is now "protected" by Ord, large numbers of troops have been killed, Magnus and the Vinter's bastard heir are tooling about and Vinter is rallying support to make a move for the throne after losing the support of the Skorne. And because of the loss of the Thornwood, the Trollbloods had to relocate which plays a huge part in Hordes fluff.

One of the (minor) Iron Kingdoms fell to Khador, and then half of it was taken by the Protectorate, who had their Kingpriest killed in battle trying to take Cygnar's capital.

Cryx has another Althanc, which they are trying to get back to Torek while keeping it out of Everblight's hands. If he gets another one, he will be the second most powerful dragon in the world, much more than the other Dragons and could start being a major threat to the Dragonfather. Or if Everblight gets his hands on Nyssor instead of the Retribution he would be rivaling Torek and that would be a Very Bad Thing for everyone else.

So yes, it is kind of annoying that the Warcasters/locks don't die, it's been stated that they won't and it doesn't take away from other characters (cough, Voyle, cough) dying or the world changing in dramatic ways.

As far as character death goes, I look at it like comic books.

They won't kill them, but maybe they retire from the stories for a bit, and focus on newer people.

Though Nemo is freakin ancient, so having him die of old age should certainly be possible.
Unlike Karchev or Cryx, he's just a human.

skrulnik wrote:As far as character death goes, I look at it like comic books.

They won't kill them, but maybe they retire from the stories for a bit, and focus on newer people.

Though Nemo is freakin ancient, so having him die of old age should certainly be possible.
Unlike Karchev or Cryx, he's just a human.

I think they said he was like 55 in the fluff piece before the coup, putting him at something like 75.

Also, I guess one of my problems isn't that named characters don't die, but that I think it's really obvious who's marked for death almost as soon as a new (non-model) character is introduced in a story. It's just bad writing, I think: I can usually guess when and how they'll die, and have been right far more often than not. I'm not brilliant, and not a writer, and their writing seems really hamfisted. I swear, ninety percent of their bad writing habits are things I learned to avoid by the time I was a wee little freshman in highschool.

spiralingcadaver wrote:
I think they said he was like 55 in the fluff piece before the coup, putting him at something like 75.

72, according to the Seacat.

Severius is 85 and still going badass, so age doesn't mean much in the Iron Kingdoms.

There was an age guide to many of the IK character somewhere.

Some of them also had stats in the IKRP game.

George Spiggott wrote:There was an age guide to many of the IK character somewhere.

I posted a link to it in the "Best Character" thread.

Personally I think it would be fairly easy for them to permanently kill a caster. If you read their explanation for why you can have 2 players both playing the same warcaster or 2 character units on opposite side of the table they mention that there are many pretenders and impostors floating around the iron kingdoms.

So if they kill a character just say something afterwards like "However XX was a legend in their time and it is fair to assume that for many years there will be those who claim to be the lost hero XX, and who really know maybe one of them is."

In that case they would have a plausible explanation for why XX model is still playable but it would allow the story to be progressed without having to be afraid of killing a character and damaging the game.

A lot of casters have faded out of the story thus far - they won't kill people off because no matter who you talk about killing, fans will be up in arms about it and you'll have bad feelings on all fronts. An obsession with people dying just for the sake of dying seems to crop back up in the community from time to time, and its rather silly. You CAN have a good story without killing people left and right, and Warcasters are basically given every advantage in surviving - they are after all priceless, irretrievable resources to the nations they serve.

RuneGrey wrote:A lot of casters have faded out of the story thus far - they won't kill people off because no matter who you talk about killing, fans will be up in arms about it and you'll have bad feelings on all fronts. An obsession with people dying just for the sake of dying seems to crop back up in the community from time to time, and its rather silly. You CAN have a good story without killing people left and right, and Warcasters are basically given every advantage in surviving - they are after all priceless, irretrievable resources to the nations they serve.

Bloodlust is one way of putting it, but another is to relieve some of the bloat from that many characters and not much space to tell their stories, and do it in a productive way. Yes, you can have a good story without killing your big characters, but it sure would be a useful way to push some narrative. The problem is, almost any unnamed warcaster who steps in to a piece of fiction is practically marked for death, these day, which, I think, is their attempt to address bloodlust.

However, part of a good drama or action piece is, whether or not it'll happen, the threat of harm, and if the Harbinger is zapped back to life when she dies, Stryker pulls a Batman when his back should have broken, and macbain survives because he offers to buy a round, when Karchev looks threatened, I just don't buy it.

GW pissed me off with bad customer support/relationships, which was enough for me to leave. PP's lack of artistic integrity may be pushing me in the same direction.

GW's black library has some really good books, which is as much a part of the fluff as whats in codexes or rule books from GW or PP. PP's stories are pretty transparent, you know everyones going to be ok, and whether they win or not really doesn't matter, since no one important ever dies.
GW has books where you read the entire story rooting for a guy, and he ends up dead in the end. Its good writing, entertaining and realistic. If I want to make an army thats written about I can name each of my models after someone in the book, and who cares if they have died, the stories make those characters come alive. Nothing PP has written has made me feel like a character has come alive, its all fight fight fight, but no real backstory on anything. No real character building ever takes place, its more like reading a history book.

Whilst I think it’s possible to write a story without killing off warcasters, it’s also very possible to exhaust all avenues of dramatic story telling without killing of characters.

The main issue that I have is the tendency for characters to “pull a batman” as it has been put which I find as an immature plot device. I also see the plot functioning like Star Trek with red shirt characters being overly obvious victims in the storyline (which is also an immature plot device). When reading a plot, you know Stryker will survive and you know red shirts will die.

I’ve also noticed that recently PP has tried putting warcasters in “against all odds” type scenarios in orders to raise the tension however with situations like these (and a lack of lethality or consequence), it’s possible for characters to appear like Kaldor Draigo (which is worrisome). Whilst this has not happened yet, there’s always the possibility if PP choose to raise the stakes in the next expansion.

I perfectly understand the comments of “killing of characters for the sake of killing a character” and I agree with this as killing a character without plot direction would be a bad move. However I’d love to see a perma character death written as part of an epic storyline that progresses the plot (for example Stryker sacrificing himself to defend the king from Vinter). Considering the next expansion is set for an epic Cygnar civil war that would be the perfect time to have a surprise twist in the form of a character death.

Side Note: This post may sound overly negative but that is only because I really like PP and wants them to succeed in the long run.