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Verd_Warr wrote:Steam Tanks are way too new-fangled and flashy for the stunties, Cthulhu.

But steam powered, iron clad gunships aren't? (Dreadfleet)

No ever said they were consistent...

And not all of Malakai Makaisson's inventions burnt down, fell over and sank into the swamp on their maiden voyages

actually I am pretty sure that Thunderer's only have light armor. having play against dwarfs and picked em up for my girl(she's lover of elfs but when I asked what army she wanted, her first pick was the dwarfs). I am no pro at them, but in the few games I have played with them, I stock up on Thunderers, those bad boys are mean at range, St4 Armor Piercing(nice -2 to armor save). my Black Orcs wince each time they see ten of the little buggers. Chaos Warriors, Swordmasters and anything with a Big Armor save is going to hate them..so very much..

Dwarf Warriors are also vicious, sure they only have Str3, but going in against normal units(and only costing 8-9pts for Hand Weapon Shield) they should have the numbers, attacks and armor to outlast just about any other core unit.

I;ve seen the Organ Gun used to good effect, haven't had a chance to try the Cannons, or for that matter any of the more exotic choice such as Hammerers, Miners or Slayers(been tempted though).

they can absolutely shut down magic, I hated going against them with my Lizardmen (though a mixing of Light and an Engine of the Gods, does help null the damn shooting phase).

though as everyone says, you got a good army, and you really should start off with the Starter Box, and then pick up a hero or two and your set to hook.

Actually dwarves are overcosted for what they do. Not as overcosted as WE, mind you, but still not great. Compared to Chaos marauders or DE Warriors, Dwarven warriors are way overcosted for their abilities. We get easily outnumbered by the enemy, and even WM seem rarely enough to thin out our foes. God knows that when your opponant gets lucky on his 5+ ward saves you're about to have a very bad day.

Dwarfs are awesome. They own the magic phase by having the ability to completely shut down your opponent's magic phase. Also runes! Don't think I saw anyone mention runes yet. It brings a level of customization to dwarfs think of it like socketing jems or enchanting in World of Warcraft. Forget that magic weapon or armor that maybe 2 are viable of for any army, a dwarf can make their own by applying runes. Embrace the Dwarf!

Dwarves don't need magic as they've got the best damn magic shutdown in game.

Runelord with Anvil of Doom, Master Rune of Balance and x2 Runes of Spellbreaking, with a Runesmith with x3 Runes of Spellbreaking.

So, You now have +5 Dispel dice (2 from the runelord, 1 from the Anvil, 1 from the Runesmith and the Master Rune of Balance steals a power dice from your enemy and becomes a dispel dice you can use) +2 to dispel (With the Banner of Valaya in the army it's like +4-5) and have 5 Runes of Spellbreaking, which act exactly like dispel scrolls.

Yeah... hot damn indeed

CthuluIsSpy wrote:But steam powered, iron clad gunships aren't? (Dreadfleet)

Considering that the Steam Tank is made by Umgi (Humans), Dwarves would be naturally hesitant to copy them, regardless of their success rate. To a Dwarf it's shoddy, to men it's not.

Dwarves are very good. They can easily rip armies to shreds with their shooting.

It's good to hear that my bearded bricks won't get ripped to shreds by those pesky magic-loving High Elves....

When I was deciding to play dwarfs, the fact that they had no magic at all almost caused me to change my mind. Magic is a really cool part of warhammer that I kinda just wanted to see and play a little, even if its not good.
Dwarfs were my choice in the end though. For all the same reasons that everyone keeps saying. They're awesome little bricks! And the rune system for building characters sounds reaally fun. I'm excited to get working on mine.

Cryonicleech wrote:Dwarves don't need magic as they've got the best damn magic shutdown in game.

Runelord with Anvil of Doom, Master Rune of Balance and x2 Runes of Spellbreaking, with a Runesmith with x3 Runes of Spellbreaking.
So, You now have +5 Dispel dice (2 from the runelord, 1 from the Anvil, 1 from the Runesmith and the Master Rune of Balance steals a power dice from your enemy and becomes a dispel dice you can use) +2 to dispel (With the Banner of Valaya in the army it's like +4-5) and have 5 Runes of Spellbreaking, which act exactly like dispel scrolls.

Yeah... hot damn indeed

The problem with that is you just dumped ~400 to 500 points in magic defense. What this is a good idea against some armies, against others your shutting down a minor phase of their game, in exchange for 20% of your army.
With dwaves, you want to find that balance between defending against magic, and over-defending and wasting points.

All the defense in the world doesn't help when somebody roll's "6's" Against super high defense, I'd just throw all my dice at 1 spell each phase, since I know it's the only way I'll get something off.

-Matt

They can also run HUGE blocks of heavy infantry scouts and roll right up the enemy line. Last game I played with Dwarves, I ran 40 Longbeard Scouts with BSB and Combat Thane with Rune of Challenge vs. WOC - two units of Warriors, one of Trolls.

Terrain forced me to deploy on the troll side. He had first turn, I used the ROC to make the trolls charge, beat them, pursued and overran into warrior block one. My turn, beat the warriors (barely), they blew their break test, I pursued and overran into warrior block 2. His second turn, I beat them soundly, they break, I chase them off the board next turn.

The Anvil and two cannons I had deployed on my side barely did anything - three wounds from the cannons total, and he never had much chance to do any magic.

Sure, the list is a one-trick pony. But ya gotta admit it's a pretty good trick!

HawaiiMatt wrote:

Cryonicleech wrote:Dwarves don't need magic as they've got the best damn magic shutdown in game.

Runelord with Anvil of Doom, Master Rune of Balance and x2 Runes of Spellbreaking, with a Runesmith with x3 Runes of Spellbreaking.
So, You now have +5 Dispel dice (2 from the runelord, 1 from the Anvil, 1 from the Runesmith and the Master Rune of Balance steals a power dice from your enemy and becomes a dispel dice you can use) +2 to dispel (With the Banner of Valaya in the army it's like +4-5) and have 5 Runes of Spellbreaking, which act exactly like dispel scrolls.

Yeah... hot damn indeed

The problem with that is you just dumped ~400 to 500 points in magic defense. What this is a good idea against some armies, against others your shutting down a minor phase of their game, in exchange for 20% of your army.
With dwaves, you want to find that balance between defending against magic, and over-defending and wasting points.

All the defense in the world doesn't help when somebody roll's "6's" Against super high defense, I'd just throw all my dice at 1 spell each phase, since I know it's the only way I'll get something off.

-Matt

Absolutely true. Just showing the maxed out potential of Dwarf anti-magic. You'll hardly need this much in Magic Defense. And yes, double 6's can't be stopped by Dwarves, sadly.

My girlfriend's primary army is dwarfs.

Quarrelers with great weapons - yar. A gunline with s5t4 in CC. Yep.

thunderers for ranged that aren't that good in combat.

Anvil if you're feeling saucy.

Copters for harassment (also one of the most fun units in whfb, imo).

Great army.

Dwarf miners, my brets shudder every time they appear

I faced dwarves last night that went super melee.
Cheap BSB, and 2 runelords with shields and runes of stone (T5 2+ armor, 6+ parry) one had master rune of balance.
BSB, Banner with pregame move and 5+ ward for BSB
50 Long Beards with great weapons, 1 break test on 1D6
17 Long Beards with great weapons
2x 30 Warriors with Shields
2x18 Warriors with Great Weapons
1 Cannon with rune of burning

+5 dispel dice (and -1 power die), +2 to dispel, 166 dwarves. The whole army pregame moved at me, and went first, starting basically mid-field.
The game was a blast. He seemed to have just enough magic defense where magic phases were close (some spells slipped through, most didn't).
I picked off the cannon, but it more than earned it's 95 points before I could get to it.
The big surprise for me was when both blocks of 30 dwarves fled charges (and got away thanks to bouncing through support units behind them), leaving the 5 wide 10 deep long beards alone; who promptly combat reformed into a horde (the fleeing units opened the space) and massacred the whole flank of my army.

The tactical withdraw rallied in time to cover the flanks of the support units.

I had the huge speed and shooting advantage, but with the toughness of those blocks I couldn't significantly impact them before combat.

-Matt

The most difficult problem I run into playing dwarves is deciding how much anti magic to purchase.

The absolute minimum IMO is a runesmith with the master rune of balance and a dispel. Total comes to 145 which is playing it dangerously short on anti magic at +2 dice, -1 from the other side, +2 to dispel, 1 dispel rune.

Played a bit with the Runelord with master rune of balance and an anvil. +4 dice, -1 to the other side, +2 to dispel, and a dispel rune or 2 was plenty of anti magic. The thing is the anvil is not needed in every dwarf list. It works great in a list that has miners or rangers, but it's just a bit too expensive if it's not going to make good use of it's movement rune.

Right now I'm going to try 2 runesmiths, master runes of challenge and balance, and 3 dispel runes. It's only +3 dice to dispel, -1 for the other side, and +2 to dispel rolls, but it does have 3 dispel runes and a master rune of challenge that's probably going to go into a 30 block of hammerers.

The beef I have with the current dwarf book isn't a complete lack of a magic phase, it's the fact that it costs 300+ points to have a really solid anti magic phase which is about in the price range of a level 4 wizard. With 8th ed magic being nastier than 7th ed my hope is that dwarves get more bang for the buck on anti magic in our next book, which means we can spend less points on anti magic.

Dwarves are devastating field 3 cannons and 3 grudge throwers and watch your opponent cry like a little girly man.

If your worried about high elfs take a couple gyro's I played them last week twice cause after the first game by turn 3 he forfeited and wanted to play another... DESTROYED HIM with 2000 points, with 2 gt's a cannon and 2 gyros also a 25 man slayer unit and 24 hammer and 48 warriors bsb and runesmith... try looking at www.bugmansbrewery.com for all your dwarfy tactics... 2nd game he continued on his fleeing elfy ways. Where my slayers chased down 2 mounted units in the same game.... and then a gyro charged a fleeing unit of spearmen.... he wasn't too thrilled

I am surprised it has not been mentioned more already. Your Armywide LD is insane! Also basic warriors have Heavy Armor and T4, whats not to love about that!?

I'm a Dwarfs player. I love playing my Dwarf army, and they have great fluff and a fantastic community online.

That said, I'm a little surprised at all the people saying "they're devastating!" and the like. With extremely rare exceptions (like Andy Spier), Dwarf armies are not winning many major tournaments, or even placing high on tournament rankings. Generally speaking, the armies that are winning currently are the Dark Elves, Skaven, and Lizardmen, with a smattering of High Elves, Daemons, and WoC. (Yes, there are exceptions, but these are the armies *consistently* placing high on the lists!)

Dwarfs are a solidly "middle of the pack" army at the moment. Great generals will perform better than average, poor ones worse than average. Most good Dwarf generals that are placing in the top 10 in tournies could probably place in the top 3 if they picked a dominant army that allows for cheesier, more powerful tricks. I say this *as a Dwarf player*, that loves my army.