Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello Dakka, I'm planning to start Fantasy and my friend gave me some of his dwarf models recently so I am going to start dwarfs! However, when I got all excited and talked to my other fantasy player friends, they all said big nays to dwarfs, saying that they are a very weak army. Is this true? I've heard rumours that they don't use any magic and very slow, making them a very weak army.

What you heard is 100% correct and completely wrong. They have a movement of 3, which is almost half the average speed for most foot troops. They also have no magic at all. But you haven't heard how they make up for it.

They have some of the most flexible deployment rules in the game, you can end the deployment phase with literally nothing on the table if you want, then start your entire army within charging range of the enemy. Also, Dwarves can assemble one of the most devastating gunline armies in the game, so why would you even want to get closer to the enemy?

Also, they have the best counter-magic in the game, and a lot of enemies will wonder why they bothered investing in their wizards.

Coupled with that above average toughness, good armor saves and high strength attacks, they're extremely formidable. It sounds like your friends wont see you coming.

Every army has its advantages and disadvantages. The best thing to do is go with an army you like and play to its strengths.

I like drawfs personally and I appreciate your advice.... I like the idea of tough guys with impenetrable shield wall and awesome cannons....

As said above a little slow but when they hit it hurts bad.
Their gun lines are reduculously powerful.
Upside is you can build a fun army that still kicks Ass.

So from what I hear, no magic is not too big of a disadvantage for them since other abilities make up for it.... My High Elf friend was literally ranting about the fact that dwarfs didn't have any magic and therefore made them very, very bad....

Anyways, I'm glad to hear that I'm not going to get mauled with my Dwarfs every game.

Paha, Stand and shoot at him, elves are rolling 5+ to wound, after you've stood and shot.
No magic? Why not buy a stone thrower or another cannon?
No wizard has a hope of taking a cannonball in the face, unless your opponent has spent serious points on getting him a ward.

Squash wrote:What you heard is 100% correct and completely wrong. They have a movement of 3, which is almost half the average speed for most foot troops.

I thought the "average" Man speed is 4, which means Dwarves are only slightly slower than them? Skaven are mostly 5 for core, with a smattering of 6 for things like Rat Ogres and Gutter Runners.

3 is nearly 2

streamdragon wrote:
I thought the "average" Man speed is 4, which means Dwarves are only slightly slower than them? Skaven are mostly 5 for core, with a smattering of 6 for things like Rat Ogres and Gutter Runners.

Not only that, but when you charge, you add a dice roll to your movement, making the actual movement attribute often the lesser component.

3 is nearly 2

It's also "nearly" 6 in the world of Nearlies.

To find out how dwarfs play in the hands of a very good, thoughtful player, I'd suggest checking out some of Red_Zeke's reports. The advantages and disadvantages of being a short, bearded warhammerer are on full display in them, and very carefully analyzed. Plus he's funny.

An alternative here is to go with empire. Dwarfs and Empire have the same basic strength: it's hard to kill enough of them to matter. Dwarfs achieve this because every dwarf is like a brick with a beard. Empire achieve it because our dudes cost five points each, and we can lose an awful lot before it starts to bother us. And you still get cannons. Either way, good luck!

Edit: Worth noting, though, that muttonchop whiskers and other strange facial hair configurations aren't nearly as cool, nor yet as fun to paint, as blanket-like dawi beards.

Dwarf artilery is actually really versitile too. You can make cannons flamming, you've got a catapult, organ gun, and the ability to take some really tough fighters so when the 3 guys that are still alive hit you, you can pummel them into oblivion with hammers.

What you lack in magic you make up for in fire power. Remember to always include one cannon with a rune on it when you face the Lizardmen when you get that off chance - my slaan can only be wounded by magic weapons or magic spells. He's not immune to a cannon with rune of accuracy

DukeBadham wrote:3 is nearly 2

It's as near to 4 as it is to 2. When moving sideways or backwards, you actually move just as fast as humans, since you round up.

Also, not that it matters, they can Always march unless there's a spell or effect that states otherwise, IIRC. So those guys that don't have ranged weapons and aren't charging? They move 6.

Squash wrote:What you heard is 100% correct and completely wrong.

I like that Squash! I'm starting a Dwarf army by choice. I like their looks and the 'brick' comment earlier is completely correct. T 4 with armor is awesome for 8 pt a piece warriors. The biggest thing that draws me is the fact they create their own magic weapons/armor/etc. The rune system is so much fun. As long as you follow the rules you can make whatever character you want it seems. I have two characters both with 1+ re-rollable armor saves. one with a 4+ ward one with a 5+ ward. Talk about resiliency! Also, dwarf characters get 25 more points to spend on magic items. We cant use the core rulebook, but with the runes... WHO CARES!?

Steve.C said it best in my honest opinion. Every army has pros and cons. Pick one that you enjoy the looks of (and will actually paint) and have FUN! If you aren't having fun then you've picked the wrong army and possibly the wrong hobby sir/madam/creature-thing

I've been a dwarf player for about 15 years... and I must say with 8th edition dwarfs are the weakest they have ever been... but with an avnil of doom and making your own magic items kinda makes life worth living for the hairy faced critters... a new army's book is just around the coner and hopefully they will have more useful things in it.. but right now all dwarfs are are warriors in diffrent suites. but never fear, with rumors of newer models and a newer army's book sometime in 2012 this could be the dwarven time to shine... maybe I'll see a dwarf on a movement 6 pony again(dont know if it was legit, but they had it in GW gastown many moons ago) so I'm a dwarf player cause no one used them when I first started... sure I've started and played other armys along the way but eventually they get sold and the dwarfs remain.

Well for starters you have a HE player telling you Dwarfs suck, when he is playing the most easy army there is in WHFB so I wouldnt pay attention to him mate. Dwarfs still have a lot going for them, and here are some things that stand out:

*Your standard units have a base T4, which is really good to have and makes those armies like HE or Skaven who have a base S3 have a harder time killing them. Plus, they also have a good WS and good LD with a good armor save, making them very hard to shift.

*True they dont have Wizards, but Dwarfs come in as the top army when it comes to dispel dice and dispelling magic. Combine a standard Runelord and Runesmith, and then add the Banner of Valaya (cant remeber exactly what its called) and you already got a few more dispel dice before your opponent rolls for his PD, meaning you will always have an advantage most of the time. Also, the Anvil is another very good choice to take for a Dwarf Runelord, or better yet, run Thorek Ironbow and watch him work his magic!

*Like said above, Dwarfs, like the Empire, can field an effective gunline list, and though its more expensive compared to an Empire one, you have a better BS and better warmachines compared to them, making them even more deadly in that reguard. Also, the Dwarfs can place runes on there war-machines, making them even more powerful or more accurate depending on what you decided to do. There shooting units (aka Thunderers and Quarrellers) have the same stat lines as a standard Dwarf Warriors, meaning that if you equip them with shields, they can hold there own in both the shooting as well as the CC phase.

*Dwarfs also have good Lord's/Hero's, as well as special units such as Longbeards, Hammerers, Ironbreakers, and the colorful Slayers who each add something to the Army, but its up to you if you want to run them. On a personal note, I have seen a friend of mine run a horde unit of 40x Slayers, which had a few Giant Slayers and was lead by a Deamon Slayer w/a weapon w/runes, which was near a unit of Longbeards w/the 5+ ward save banner. Granted at a first glance it was considered a point sink as nobody thought Slayers effective, however this unit was a nightmare for opponents because a big block of Unbreakable troops w/a 5+ ward save running around isnt something you an ignore, and there Slayer Axes and Slayer rule made them very flexible depending on who they where fighting. Actually took 3rd in the last tournament at my store thanks to this unit, which was a surprising feat since he crushed a HE player who ran Teclis (go figure right ).

Though Dwarfs arent the strongest at the moment, they can still be a competitive army given the chance, and to be honest, I would rather play Dwarfs then be like every new player and go HE's. Wish you luck in the future mate and I hopefully I can hear your exploits of showing your friends up and proving to them that the Sons of Grungi are still alive and kicking .

Bretonnians can be completely decimated on the charge, twenty [thunderers?] killed 3 KOTR - 72 points in a stand and shoot reaction. Then, they get into combat and only take five losses and kill three more KOTR.

Don't even get me started on dispelling. -.-

Oh man having no magic is a blessing means you can really concentrate on the other phases of the game mainly combat and shooting.

Your dispel power is ridiculous and that will make magic heavy armies cry since they depend on magic to make them work.

Dont be so proud of thunderers killing kotr my mok warriors with halberds got multi charged kotr in the flank and the front and peg knights in the other flank adn men at arms in the front.
The flank kotr lost 4 or 5 out of 9 guys the 3 peg knights got killed 5 kotr in the front got killed and a whole lot of men at arms got killed before they struck back (needless to say i won that combat by a lot).

But yes dwarfs they are short and short tempered and good at shooting stuff.

^ you ramble a bit. It's a tad hard to read. J/S.

I'm upset that I managed to loose so many knights to thunderers. What is their PPM? They had shields and handguns.

Diesel Stradin wrote:So from what I hear, no magic is not too big of a disadvantage for them since other abilities make up for it.... My High Elf friend was literally ranting about the fact that dwarfs didn't have any magic and therefore made them very, very bad....

He doesn't see it yet, but it's a gift! Wizards are the most expensive characters in the game, instead you can spend everything on beating him on the field.

Alright.... I think my friend was being a bit biased when he was talking and I have now fully decided to make an army of Sons of Grungi! Thank you very much of ur honest opinions and advice Dakka, I really appreciate it!

Now... where and how do I start in a cost-effective manner....?

Battalion box is always the first stop. Also, ebay.

Yeah Dwarfs are pretty neat. They're slow, but they make up for by having good armor and good T. In addition, they have access to some of the best warmachines in the game. And god help any unit that gets rear charged by a block of miners.

3 Cannons, 3 Grudge throwers, 2 Organ Guns. Need I say more?

scubasteve04 wrote:3 Cannons, 3 Grudge throwers, 2 Organ Guns. Need I say more?

And bolt throwers and flame cannons and gyrocopters...

EagleArk wrote:

scubasteve04 wrote:3 Cannons, 3 Grudge throwers, 2 Organ Guns. Need I say more?

And bolt throwers and flame cannons and gyrocopters...

And Slayers and Anvils and Longbeards and Lots of handguns.
Strangely enough, dwarves don't get steam tanks. The Empire does, but not dwarves.
Aren't they more technologically advanced than the empire?

Dwarfs are certainly not weak. Their entire shooting phase is my personal nightmare, they actually don't NEED to move around almost at all, they just wait in their tin can armor and receive the charge - most chances are that they will come out alive. Their armor saves are great, their anti-magic is ridiculously good, and I insist that their shooting is nightmare! If in the end they DO get into close combat, trust me, they can stand their ground and bash some enemies at the same time.
Oh and their runes make for some of the best weapons I know.

Steam Tanks are way too new-fangled and flashy for the stunties, Cthulhu.