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Asherian Command wrote:Emperor same thing
Native American => Crazy Old Dead Guy => The Emperor of Mankind.

Don't you mean Native American => The Emperor of Mankind => Crazy Old Dead Guy?

Orks are almost completely different from how they were in the Rogue Trader era. Far more civilized and less brutal back then.

tilarium wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:Emperor same thing
Native American => Crazy Old Dead Guy => The Emperor of Mankind.

Don't you mean Native American => The Emperor of Mankind => Crazy Old Dead Guy?

Well, i guess the Native American part comes from the part of the fluff (retconned?) where he is the amalgam of the last immortal shamans.
And he can just shape how other people see him (as seen in "The last Church") at will. So, he could still be the native american guy, changing his looks for publicities sake or whatnot xD

-Loki- wrote:

Iur_tae_mont wrote:The Squats. They were retconned right out of the 41 Millennium.

No, they weren't. Nothing was 'changed' about them. They were killed off. That's not a retcon.

Well, my original copy of the Inquisition trilogy still has the squat engineer Grimm in it - hasn't he been edited out of it now?

Durza wrote:Doomrider was retconned away.

I think that GW just want to pretend that doomrider never existed. It was an interesting concept, but executed so, so badly...

Also, has anyone noticed the similarities in the face:



?

DarknessEternal wrote:

Da Butcha wrote:Tigurius was reputed to be 'half-Eldar' in RT, wasn't he?

No, that wasn't Tigurius, he didn't exist until second edition. The Ultramarines had a half-eldar astropath working with them though. He was not a genetic marine though.

There was most definately a half-eldar ultramarine librarian in RT, because I downloaded the RT books the previous time this discussion came up because I didn't believe it.

I'm quite sure it was Tigurius, but I don't think he existed outside of the fluff (i.e. no rules/models)

Iur_tae_mont wrote:The Squats. They were retconned right out of the 41 Millennium.


Also, IIRC, The Space Marines were originally Criminals in Power Armor, serving their Death Sentence.

That last one may be the heat stroke talking though.

Or Starcraft

Leigen_Zero wrote:There was most definately a half-eldar ultramarine librarian in RT, because I downloaded the RT books the previous time this discussion came up because I didn't believe it.

I'm quite sure it was Tigurius, but I don't think he existed outside of the fluff (i.e. no rules/models)

He was called Chief Astropath Illiyan Nastase; he was not Chief Librarian Varro Tigurius.

On-topic, Leman Russ and Roboute Guilliman are probably the most extensively retconned characters still present in the game universe.

Leigen_Zero wrote:
There was most definately a half-eldar ultramarine librarian in RT, because I downloaded the RT books the previous time this discussion came up because I didn't believe it.

I'm quite sure it was Tigurius, but I don't think he existed outside of the fluff (i.e. no rules/models)

Astropath and not a marine. Says so right in the book you're talking about.

Also, there's nothing american, native or otherwise about the Emperor, he was born in Anatolia.

Doomriders are still up for order on GW's website.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440167a&prodId=prod1130387&rootCatGameStyle=

Haven't been completely retconned away it seems.

moom241 wrote:I have to agree with Light. Ollanius was also retconned out of existence, and he was cool! Though I think it was an Ultrasmurf marine, not fists. I could be wrong though.

He still exists. Some Dark Heresy book ( i think the ecclesiarchy one ) mentions him as a saint, venerated by the Imperial Guard.

farmersboy wrote:Well, my original copy of the Inquisition trilogy still has the squat engineer Grimm in it - hasn't he been edited out of it now?

No, he's still in there. It was the reprinting of the Inquisition War trilogy that gave us the 'eaten by the Tyranids' explanation for the Squats' removal from the 40K universe, as it has a note in the front about it to explain to newcomers why there's this character called a 'squat' in there when that race doesn't appear in any other novels.

He was edited out of his own short story in the Deathwing short story collection. They turned him into a human Techpriest instead.

Ok, so I'm relatively new to 40k, and I know of the squats (my local gaming club often seems to use them as a standard against which all "badness" should be measured) and I know that they no longer exist... But what do you mean, they weren't retconed, but "killed off"?
As in, they once existed in the 40k universe, but were exterminated?
Because right now, in my head the imperium has been ordered by the Emperor, to destroy an entire sentient race because they're stupid looking. At least that seems to be the only reason I ever hear people give as to why they're terrible anyway.
Whatever the truth is, I'm hoping that that this is what happened, as the thought seems hilarious to me.

They were wiped out by Tyranids actually.

Hoernakex wrote:But what do you mean, they weren't retconed, but "killed off"?

Squats were originally introduced in Rogue Trader as a stable mutation offshoot of humanity, who had grown short and stubby because that's what happens when you live on high-gravity worlds. Except for the high gravity worlds that Ogryns were adapted for, which made them big and dumb. Or the high-gravity world that Salamanders live on, which made them slow and turned them into Drow.

In 2nd edition, they were included in the initial 'get you by' army list booklet, but never received a codex. In 3rd edition, they just weren't mentioned at all.

Eventually, the story came out that the studio just hadn't been able to come up with a direction for them that they felt did the Space Dwarf archetype justice and kept them distinct from other already fluffed-out armies, and so they decided to just quietly drop them from the game. They weren't ret-conned out of the setting... they were just no longer mentioned.

When the Inquisition War Trilogy (which features a Squat as one of the main characters) was republished, they added a blurb at the front which mentions that the Squat race was eaten by a Tyranid Hive Fleet to explain their absence from current 'canon'...


So, not really ret-conned, just quietly killed off and never spoken about again. Aside from pretty much every Games Day Q&A session since the latter half of second edition, where some wag inevitably asks when we are getting a Squat codex... which spawned the oft mis-attributed 'There are no Squats' from grumpy studio staff as a way of stopping people from asking a question for which they already know the answer. A response which in turn spawned all of the nonsense stories around the internet of GW denying the Squats ever existed and refusing to let people use the models in official events...


Find the full story in my new book 'More than you ever needed (or wanted) to know about Squats'...

Wasn't Lysander considered dead before the current codex? I don't have my 4Ed codex on me, so I can't check.

Also, Draigo will likely be toned down by the time of the next Grey Knights codex due to the massive amounts of butthurt.

Ironsight wrote:Wasn't Lysander considered dead before the current codex? I don't have my 4Ed codex on me, so I can't check.

Also, Draigo will likely be toned down by the time of the next Grey Knights codex due to the massive amounts of butthurt.

Or they should just not release another GK codex and go back to a Deamonhunters codex and let us have deamon hunters without having to use the GKs... assuming we want something that's more diverse then a bunch of henchmen squads and Cortez.........