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As far as Bugs go what about a Swarmlord?
According to the fluff they come back stronger every time they are reborn, and aparently there is one as old as the Hive fleet itself.

could make a decent enough challange to a Primarch.

I think a pack of 20 carnifexs would be good practice for a pissed off primarch

I won't deny, Void Dragon is near unbeatable. How long did it take to get him to the state he was in before the Emperor stepped in?

That being said, I don't think all C'tan are as strong as VD. I think, conceivably, a primarch could defeat Nightbringer or Deceiver, but it would be fairly even.

Deciever, maybe. Nightbringer, I'm not so sure...

A C'tan if according to the fluff used to feed on the energy of a star, how could a primarch who is at the end of the day a human, beat something that powerfull it requires the energy of a Sun just to get out of bed?

C'tan > primarch

just because the EMPEROR beat a WEAKENED void dragon, doesn't mean a less powerful primarch could beat a C'tan

bombboy1252 wrote:C'tan > primarch

just because the EMPEROR beat a WEAKENED void dragon, doesn't mean a less powerful primarch could beat a C'tan

Emporer beats big Ctan. Mini emperor beats small ctan.
In my understanding, all of the ctan are pretty weakened at this point; not nearly at what they used to be.

What about the Sensei? I know it's been discussed before, but I'm sure they would at least be even.

Sensei are pretty much no longer canon.

Cerebrium wrote:Sensei are pretty much no longer canon.

Eh, fair enough. A darn shame if you ask me.

Though I hate to admit it, after reading through Path of the Warrior, I'd have to say the Phoenix Lords would be no match for a Primarch in 1v1 combat. Phoenix Lords are good, but not THAT good. Asurmen might stand up to some of them, but that's probably all if it was head to head.

Eldrad Ulthran and Asdrubel Vect

KilroyKiljoy wrote:I won't deny, Void Dragon is near unbeatable. How long did it take to get him to the state he was in before the Emperor stepped in?

The Necron codex is purposefully vague; it mentions "the emergent race of man", but it also makes reference to pre-human ancestors millions of years ago.

KilroyKiljoy wrote:That being said, I don't think all C'tan are as strong as VD. I think, conceivably, a primarch could defeat Nightbringer or Deceiver, but it would be fairly even.

The Deceiver is the weakest of the four C'tan, but he's still a C'tan.

As for the Nightbringer...
"Ultimately, the Nightbringer was undone when the Deceiver convinced it that the most succulent feasts were to be had in the living energies of its fellow C'tan. So began a reign of murder as the Nighbringer brought all its powers to bear in hunting down and consuming its fellow gods. As the C'tan fought among themselves, others followed the Nightbringer's example and fed upon one another, but none could match the scale of its slaughter."

The Nightbringer is not a weakling. In fact, according to Lexicanum, the source that says the Void Dragon is strongest is a tech-priest; they're the guys who worship the Void Dragon, so of course they'd think that.

Jollydevil wrote:Emporer beats big Ctan. Mini emperor beats small ctan.
In my understanding, all of the ctan are pretty weakened at this point; not nearly at what they used to be.

The Deceiver was the first C'tan to wake up, so it was weakened the least. The Nightbringer slept around 10,000 years more than the Void Dragon, but 10,000 years is a small fraction of how long they slept.

Also, only Magnus (And the Chaos God-supported Primarchs) would have the same huge advantage against the C'tan that the Emperor had.

Magnus can also take down a titan single-handedly, which is something of note. Not only that, but now he is a Tzeentch infused Daemon Primarch.

I was trying to get away from those Chaos god infused Deamon Primarchs, but argue more on the merits of the Primarchs in their "Loyal" state.

So the concencus so far is C'Tan > Primarch > Ghazz.

But still no descision on the other potential Rivals.

The pheonix lords are basically the eldar primarchs. They were trained around the same time as the primarchs, and function in sort of the same way. A fight between any primarch and any pheonix lord would be a damn close match.

Jollydevil wrote:The pheonix lords are basically the eldar primarchs. They were trained around the same time as the primarchs, and function in sort of the same way. A fight between any primarch and any pheonix lord would be a damn close match.

Aggreed, I reckon That would be a good one.

My search-fu is lacking, I cant find many references to a Swarmlord fighiting anything other than captians of the untramarines. But always devastating stuff. still think that it would put on a good show if it was one of the original ones.

The Monk wrote:

Jollydevil wrote:The pheonix lords are basically the eldar primarchs. They were trained around the same time as the primarchs, and function in sort of the same way. A fight between any primarch and any pheonix lord would be a damn close match.

Aggreed, I reckon That would be a good one.

My search-fu is lacking, I cant find many references to a Swarmlord fighiting anything other than captians of the untramarines. But always devastating stuff. still think that it would put on a good show if it was one of the original ones.

The swarmlord almost killed Marneus Calgar, had calgar not had to flee with his Honour gaurd at the battle for maccrage.

If my fluff memory is correct Nazdreg Ug Urdgrub is another ork which is about as powerful as Ghazghkull .

Justus wrote:Magnus can also take down a titan single-handedly, which is something of note.

So can Wazdakka Gutsmek. Doesn't mean he would have a hope against a Ctan. They can unmake a solarsystem single handed, unarmed and unequipped. Can a Primarch do that?


Magnus might be able to beat one down. Killing one? Not a hope. Big E himself said he was incapable of actually killing one..


Magnus has major warp-mojo on his side though, so i'd give him even odds against a weakened Ctan. A recharged one would wad him up like kleenex

When the C'tan warred amongst eachother, they razed planets, extinguished stars, and entire planets were devoured by black holes.

A measure of the Nightbringer's power infused into a starship allows it to destroy star systems on a whim.

The Emperor had a lot of trouble against a weakened, starved Void Dragon, the Dragon rended his armour and flesh, was scalding him with lightning shot from its eyes, and was crushing the life out of him before he found a weak spot in its Necrodermis.

Why was the Void Dragon weakened? Well, along with general starvation due to not eating for 60,000,000 years, it was fired on by a fleet of Blackstone Fortresses. It survived.

Nothing in the Materium can rival the full might of a C'tan.

But back on the subject...

The Swarmlord could conceivably rival a Primarch.

Oh, Sanguinor too.

Eldar Solitaire... The ones guarding the BL.
I can't remember the source, but I do recall it stating the solitares guarding it are 'The oldest of their kind, skilled beyond all others in the universe' And so on.

Aren't Solitaires infused with the power of Slaanesh somehow though? They represent She Who Thirsts in the Harlequins' performances and are damned for it.

How much power did the C'tan loose by taking physical form, by the way? The Nightbringer's current stats don't look like something that could devour solar systems.

KilroyKiljoy wrote:I won't deny, Void Dragon is near unbeatable. How long did it take to get him to the state he was in before the Emperor stepped in?

That being said, I don't think all C'tan are as strong as VD. I think, conceivably, a primarch could defeat Nightbringer or Deceiver, but it would be fairly even.

The Void Dragon was the strongest of the C'tan. His only risk was that his powers were nearly worthless against the Nightbringer. (Nightbringer wasn't a machine)

The Emperor easily one for the same reason. Well, that and the Void Dragon saw that the Emperor didn't want to kill him. The Emperor needed him to form the Adeptus Mechanicus. The Void Dragon needed something that could kill the Nightbringer.
Everybody wins.
Sorta.

Except the Emperor didn't kill the Nightbringer...

Abaddon

Durza wrote:How much power did the C'tan loose by taking physical form, by the way? The Nightbringer's current stats don't look like something that could devour solar systems.

None, actually.

Before taking physical form, they couldn't influence planets or the galaxy at large, in the same way we could not influence the atoms that make up a floorboard.

They could only barely perceive stars, viewing them as tiny balls of light that were extinguished almost immediately after they tried to focus on them, devoured by their hunger.

With their Necrodermis, they can perceive planets, and mortals, but retain all of their power.

The current C'tan are very much weakened from years of starvation at the moment.

DIDM wrote:Abaddon

Im not so sure he would rival a primarch, he would probably stab himself in the face by accident going up against a real primarch.
there is a reason he was "number 2" (lol) in the sons of Horus.

Durza wrote:Except the Emperor didn't kill the Nightbringer...

It's more the threat. The Emperor can, the Void Dragon cannot. As such, the Nightbringer won't challenge the Emperor for the Void Dragon's soul (or whatever).

Um... sez who?

The Emperor couldn't (not wouldn't..couldn't) kill a weakened, starved Dragon.

The Nightbringer, after a little feeding up, isn't going to be feeling too threatened by Big E, since he's all tied up keeping the chaos gods busy, and paying very little attention to the Materium right now by comparison

In any case the Nightbringer doesn't want the Dragon's soul at present. He has other things on his mind, like lunch

gabrielhorus wrote:It's more the threat. The Emperor can, the Void Dragon cannot. As such, the Nightbringer won't challenge the Emperor for the Void Dragon's soul (or whatever).

The Void Dragon is the strongest C'tan. Even more-so than the Nightbringer.

There is literally no evidence at all that implies the Nightbringer is capable of devouring the Void Dragon.

And the Emperor was incapable of killing a weakened Void Dragon, by his own words, actually killing the beast was beyond his power.