Rivals to a Primarch?

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**The Monk**

As said is there any potential Rivals to a primarch's supremacy in the 40k universe?

There have been many threads on wich of the primarchs is the most powerfull and chaos primarchs vs loyal primarchs etc.

But upon asserting the fact that we all know the primarchs + chaos gods are are bad for loyal primarchs. I was wondering If there are any other threats on the 40k universe that could take out a Primarch on the Battlefeild?

**KilroyKiljoy**

As I've joking stated many a time, though I still firmly believe it, Ghaz is near-Primarch. The Rowboat Girlyman of Orks, but not a corpse in a jar and actually useful.

**Void__Dragon**

Greater Daemons, Avatars of Khaine, some Daemon Princes, perhaps some remarkable Grey Knights (Though I'd wager mostly only against Daemon Primarchs), to name a few.

**Zalmout**

Lord Kaldor Draigo, in his "fluff" they described him bashing his way through a daemon primarchs bodyguard, and then knocking said primarch to the ground, and Draigo then proceeded to engrave the previous Supreme Grand Master's name on the primarchs chest. (Watch the rage fly)

**Jollydevil**

Any of the pheonix lords could be an even match for a primarch. There are also several daemons who have matched primarchs.

**The Monk**

Would Ghazz be an even match for a primarch?
Im not sure. (and I play Orks)
A phoenix Lord I think would be up to the challange.
and I guess greater deamons, but having said that I was hping to avoid the Deamon Primarch argument.

Anything else?

**Brother SRM**

I think a really tough Daemon Prince could do it. Don't forget that in the fluff Daemon Princes are obscenely powerful, maybe not to the level of primarchs generally but pretty high up there.

**Blood_Raven**

A lot of fallen Primarchs ARE Daemon Princes.

**KilroyKiljoy**

Brother SRM wrote:I think a really tough Daemon Prince could do it. Don't forget that in the fluff Daemon Princes are obscenely powerful, maybe not to the level of primarchs generally but pretty high up there.

Sanguinius and Ka'Bandha.

**Tengri**

greater demons
kaldor draigo

**Ascalam**

The C'tan

Perhaps one of the really big nid beasties

**GamzaTheChaos**

I personally don't think a Primarch could touch a C'tan.

C'tan are well beyond them in terms of power IMO

**Void__Dragon**

GamzaTheChaos wrote:I personally don't think a Primarch could touch a C'tan.

C'tan are well beyond them in terms of power IMO

At full power?

Absolutely, all the Primarchs at once couldn't even inconvenience the Nightbringer at full power.

Weakened as they are now?

It's harder to say.

**Dark Scipio**

GamzaTheChaos wrote:I personally don't think a Primarch could touch a C'tan.

C'tan are well beyond them in terms of power IMO

Isnt it the other way around? I mean a C`tan is not hard to destroy at all, he just return to his tomb, shouldnt it be destroyed yet.

Isnt it hinted that Ferrus Mannus destroyed a lesser C`tan?

Although you have to say only the Emperor himself captured the Dragon, but on the other hand he had not many diffculties with that.

**KilroyKiljoy**

Dark Scipio wrote:
GamzaTheChaos wrote:I personally don't think a Primarch could touch a C'tan.

C'tan are well beyond them in terms of power IMO

Isnt it the other way around? I mean a C`tan is not hard to destroy at all, he just return to his tomb, shouldnt it be destroyed yet.

Isnt it hinted that Ferrus Mannus destroyed a lesser C`tan?

Although you have to say only the Emperor himself captured the Dragon, but on the other hand he had not many diffculties with that.

Tell me more about this Ferrus Manus story. I only know that he defeated a lesser Necron Construct, whose necrodermis fused to his skin as he drowned the 'cron in lava.

**Molten Butter**

Dark Scipio wrote:Isnt it the other way around? I mean a C`tan is not hard to destroy at all, he just return to his tomb, shouldnt it be destroyed yet.

Isnt it hinted that Ferrus Mannus destroyed a lesser C`tan?

Although you have to say only the Emperor himself captured the Dragon, but on the other hand he had not many diffculties with that.

Ferrus Manus destroyed a Necron construct made of living metal. However, it was not a C'tan, since there were only four C'tan alive at the time, and all four are still alive.

Living metal is not just used for constructing C'tan bodies. The Monolith is made of living metal, for example.

As for the Emperor, he's the most powerful psyker in the galaxy; the C'tan are weak to the Empyrean. It's not surprising he would have a much easier time against them than most of the primarchs.

**ph34r**

Greatest Daemons, C'tan, high level Ork Warbosses like Ghaz, Phoenix Lords.

**bombboy1252**

Ghazzy, Phoenix lords, Greater daemons, avatar of Khaine, Draigo...I think those are pretty much the only things that are "on level" with a primarch

**Tam**

Gork and Mork

**Gonzo_Neo**

Thinking in uncommon characters , maybe Ephrael Stern of Adepta Sororitas, a great lost character, i expect that GW would recover her fluff someday.

Full article :

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ephrael_Stern#.TomTmLLpck4

Stern is hunted by the Ordo Malleus as well as chaos powers such as the sorcerer Ahriman, who she died a second time to escape from, stabbing herself in her heart to escape his grasp. Buried, she was revived by the gift given to her by her fallen sisters, a light of the warp but not of the warp, a second and final time, Ephrael finally embraced her power and using them freely, defeating even a Culexus Assassin, overwhelming it's abilities with her own. Ephrael Stern was last seen traveling with an Eldar known as the Pariah to the Black Library using her abilities to access the webway. Though the Ordo believes she presents an extreme danger to the Imperium, and has issued orders for her destruction, some members of the Ordo think she might be Mankind's greatest hope since the Primarchs.

**The Monk**

Would a High level Ork war boss ever achieve the required amout of battle time needed to grow as powerfull as a primarch?

Im not sure one could survive for long enough, even though there is a calll that Ghazzy is up there, he can only just beat a punie commisar, let a lone a Primarch.

**Seaward**

~~Khal Drogo~~ Kaldor Draigo is clearly as powerful as a primarch.

**Durza**

Luther, Draigo, daemon princes, Greater Daemons, Avatars, Titans...

**KilroyKiljoy**

The Monk wrote:Would a High level Ork war boss ever achieve the required amout of battle time needed to grow as powerfull as a primarch?

Im not sure one could survive for long enough, even though there is a calll that Ghazzy is up there, he can only just beat a punie commisar, let a lone a Primarch.

We're talking one-on-one, not Army v. Army. You don't mean that Ghazzy can't take on a puny oomie mono e mono?

**Durza**

Depends. He might take Angron, since they have similar... 'tactics'... but against someone who goes more for skill and planning (ie; everyone else) might be different.

**The Monk**

KilroyKiljoy wrote:
The Monk wrote:Would a High level Ork war boss ever achieve the required amout of battle time needed to grow as powerfull as a primarch?

Im not sure one could survive for long enough, even though there is a calll that Ghazzy is up there, he can only just beat a punie commisar, let a lone a Primarch.

We're talking one-on-one, not Army v. Army. You don't mean that Ghazzy can't take on a puny oomie mono e mono?

No.. no way, but IIRC when Ghazzy and Yarick had at it, it was a contested duel with Ghazz winning.

All im saying that if he is Truly a Rival to a Primarch we would have swept Yarick aside without even breaking a sweat. but IIRC that wasnt the case.

**edinburgh40kgamer**

Kaldor Draigo would if we were to take his fluff as valid... worst fluff ever in my opinion!
not a clue about C'tan...
and I honestly dont think Ghazzy could compete. commissars have beaten equally powerful Ork bosses before... and no commisar could even think about standing against a primarch... not even Yarrick

just my opinion... but then i havnt read much fluff apart from SM fluff so im probably quite bias lol

**CpatTom**

IIRC The Emperor had his hands full trying to imprison a severely weakened void dragon on mars. This does not bode well for Primarchs vs C'tan.

**FuryTheBerserker**

Ghazzy is gonna get his green ass kicked

**Ascalam**

In the story he was getitng beaten up by the dragon pretty well.

It's a bit of a homage to the classic dragonslayer tales (and tolkien's take on them with smaug) that there is one place on a dragon's hide that is vulnerable...

In the Dragon's case it was the 'sleep' button

Crit happens, in other words..

A full strength, unwounded Dragon would have used the Big E's sword as a toothpick after consuming him. Even the fanboi's have to agree on that one, unless they do the 'not listenin' ' scene a la gollum