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They're slowed if they can't deal with 1 BT AT/LrC Deathstar as two Codices that placed well in this year's Ard Boyz/Nova.

Now if they're both bad and you keep smashing them over and over again without trying to help them out I don't blame them. Luckily I had a really cool guy teach me how to play 40k this year. We did quite a few tutorial games and he would basically walk me through good,bad/, and logical decisions against his armies. Most of the time telling me exactly what to do even it resulted in it ending very poorly for him.

I'd say write up a tourney list. Then tell them it's a test. Then get them to play it against you, with you using their codex, but with a fun/fluffy list.
Proceed to smash the gak out of them. Then tell them that they are complaining about you using half the codex's out there vs theirs... Which they couldn't win against when you swapped sides. Tell them what they did wrong. Teach them how to build a proper list, then try again. But this time with your fun list. If they keep complaining tell them to shut the hell up, stop blaming the codex for their losses when they have some of the strongest codexes out there, and to actually think a few turns ahead (you know, strategy/tactics). If they still compain tell them you won't play them anymore due to their whiney attitude.

...Well.

They seem to me that their the type that bitch to have something to do. BT and Nids aren't overpowered. Neither are Guard really. If you aren't running dick lists.

Spanish Birdman wrote:I can be a sore winner, but but i've never checked to see if I taste sour while i'm doing it.

(I'm sorry, I try not to be a Nazi but some opportunities are just too good)

Sorry its a inside joke from LAGTV on youtube, they do alot of starcraft 2 casts and they use that word alot and for some reason i have started using it.

Borrow a Necron codex, and pulp them with that too

Sounds like they would have a rough time against even an unsupported warrior list with a barebones lord to fill the HQ requirement.

Kroothawk wrote:

theman99808 wrote:so how should I approach the newer players?

Crush them again and again, until they like it!
Games are not meant to be fun for all players involved, esp. not for losers

This 100%.

Tell them everything in the world is OP compared to their manhood.

As being suggested before. Play with their armies couple times. That way they have an opportunity to find out what works against your armies.

Your friends sound like they're a bit frustrated with their inability to beat you. Rather than confront the root of the issue, they're content to complain, hoping that you'll cater the game to their needs by impairing your list and giving them an easy win. Like most other folks in this thread, I don't think you should change your lists. By your description, your lists are not cheesy at all, and sound like pretty 'standard' lists, the kind of armies your friends will need to learn how to fight in order to be have fun and hold their own when playing 40k.

I used to play a lot of Battletech, and I had two friends who insisted that I severely handicap myself with unit selection. They were pretty awful at the game; they never capitalized on their mechs strengths and always played a defensive game, allowing me to utilize the terrain to my advantage, flank them, divide and conquer, etc. As soon as I got they upper hand, they'd ragequit, complaining that I 'got lucky,' 'used cowardly tactics,' and 'knew all the rules'. If they won, they did everything short of break out the champagne. I learned pretty quickly that playing against them with a self-limited list was a lose-lose situation, and although we're still friends, I don't game with either of them anymore.

I like the idea of switching army lists. Hopefully that will open their eyes a bit, and inspire them to develop better tactics. Also, by seeing how you play, they might pick up some pointers (like not charging a Carnifex). A 2 on 2 might help as well, with each of them teamed up with a more veteran player. If you've got a copy of Battle Missions floating around, some of the missions in there give one side or the other a small advantage; picking the right mission could give your opponent a bit of a boost without forcing you to rearrange your own list. If he discovers strategies that work well, he might start applying them to normal games, and find that your lists aren't so OP after all.

And, at the end of the day, they might just be unwilling to improve, and sore losers to boot. If that's the case, there's nothing you can really do except make sure they don't spoil the game for you, too.

Find out what they have, and write their lists for them.
Sort of swapping lists, but it'll help them write for themselves.

They'll not need to know th nitty-gritty of your army, but know their own better.

Really, I don't agree with utterly pulverizing them. That it, unless your purposely trying to make them hate the game.

I ran a leman russ punisher against a friend who just started trying out orks. He only had a single black reach set so he didn't have nearly as many orks as he needed. In short the punisher was not friendly to him, and he never played a game after that.

Had a friend who said his space marines were unbeatable. He ate a basalisk shot that covered his whole squad, and wiped them off the board. has yet to play a game after that.

With those two example, realize that I wasn't doing it on purpose, I was just trying out new things. Still, point being that some people REALLY can't handle losing badly, and if there's even the slightest bit of enjoyment coming from playing them, I highly advise you not blase them out of the game.

Just play necrons. If you beat them, and they call you OP, congratulations, you're like one of the only OP necron player currently in existence.

Ascalam wrote:If they are having issues agaisnt BT and Nids, using marine armies, then they suck.

Plain as that, and whining about it makes them all the more lousy.

Find some decent players, and leave the kids you are playing now at playgroup

I have to say that BT are better than vanilla marines though, and nids aren't bad either if you play them right.

But when you're using space wolves your not allowed to complain, not even when your opponent uses a WAAC list in a friendly game

Stop playing 40k with them, or just play the bad list.

I have no sympathy unfortunately. 99% of my 'friends' don't play 40k so I had to look elsewhere, so might you.

VegRAWR wrote:

Ascalam wrote:If they are having issues agaisnt BT and Nids, using marine armies, then they suck.

Plain as that, and whining about it makes them all the more lousy.

Find some decent players, and leave the kids you are playing now at playgroup

I have to say that BT are better than vanilla marines though, and nids aren't bad either if you play them right.

But when you're using space wolves your not allowed to complain, not even when your opponent uses a WAAC list in a friendly game

I'm a BT player too They have their own awesomeness, but they feel a bit overcosted to me, compared to GK/BA/SW (especially SW).

Nids can be ok-ish in the right hands, but they are definitely weak compared to the current crop of power armour codexes.


If they can't handle losing and are going to be thish childish about it i'm not sure that keeping them playing would be a good thing, as they'll likely wind up being WAAC TFG's when they do figure out how to win. I've seen a few rare folk start of the whiny brat route and be great players to be against later, but most wind up being utter boredom or irritation to play against, especially if they expect you to hand them wins to smack-talk you about post game

I'd say all of these have been good ideas so far.
My favourite would be to play with a list that is obviously not OP, and if they try to claim that it is (should you beat them), laugh them out of the building, and inform them that they'll get nowhere by whining.

theman99808 wrote:Ok, I play black templar, tyranids and IG (yes i know IG is very good) ive been playing for close to eight years now and wouldnt call myself amazing at the game but im good. I play in tournaments and place well, that said in friendly games two of my friends refuse to play me because they say i run tournament lists or "gay lists" against them in a friendly game. like my normal black templar list has the assault terminators with furious charge in a land raider, they wont play me if i use them because they call them broken and OP. while they are playing blood angels and space wolfs........ same goes for my IG and tyranids. with my IG i dont spam vendettas against them or spam melta squads. yes ill run like one then use other tanks and stuff and they just call IG OP and broken. my nids (which i know arnt OP) are the same, yes its a genestealer heavy army but thats more because I dont wanna buy and paint all the gaunts. Ive got some other frinds that have been playing longer that dont have a problem with what ever i use. so how should I approach the newer players?

Seems fun lists.

Avatar 720 wrote:

KilroyKiljoy wrote:Play them with Tau. If you still win, and they're still calling OP, it's obviously them.

I think the fact that he's already doing it with Tyranids should be evidence enough

Do it with Necrons next.

Or with a dreadsock.

Nids can be very powerful if played correctly, with the right list, against anything except IG or Monolith spam Crons. The former has too much firepower for us to handle, and the latter, we don't have the capabilities, of the tried and trusted MCs.


Nid players need to stop focusing on hordes or Nidzillas....Hybrids are ther future of Bugland! Hybrids FTW!





Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zakiriel wrote:OK try this, you get to make your opponents list and they get to make yours... hilarity ensues!

This. Write their list so they have no vehicles, and only basic troops. Give them Devs with no Heavy Weapons. Assault squads with no jump packs, DT or special weapons. Wolf Guard Battle leaders with the basic equipment. Then plonk that down and declare that this army will be fighting you army of 1 Leman Russ Punisher, an Infantry Platton of all conscripts, and a Lord Commy with his Power sword and bolt pistol.


Or you stealer spam lists.

Or those bunch of BT Sword Brethern or whatever.

Tell them to stop whining and get on with it. I have no sympathy for them, they shouldn't be dragging your enjoyment of the game down.

I'd try to advocate random pairings at your FLGS.

This is what we do at our shop an it works really well.

What you do is, do it back.


Tell them They can't have anything except plain Troops squads and Captains/Wolf Guard Battle Leaders. See how the fething like it.

I will have to try the idea of a list swap or army swap.

If you're not being a sour winner, then tell your friends to nut up.... maybe you'd be consider a sour winner at that point, but you should NEVER feel bad about beating them. I have a friend who gets angry when hes losing but he yells at his dice, never his opponent

The OP hasn’t provided many specifics in his posts. Whilst at first glance one can say that his friends are sore losers, one can’t say for sure without specifics. What points level do you play at. What lists do you and your friends run? Are there any informal agreements (like homebrew rules etc)? What type of lists does your friends normally run? How new to 40k are they? Without these, this thread appears as a rant thread.

In regards to how to treat newer opponents, 1000 point and under battles would be a good place to start. 5th edition tends to be somewhat punishing when a person doesn’t have enough anti mech and anti horde in their list, especially against mech heavy or horde heavy factions. Considering the OP has prominent mech/horde elements in his lists, I can see why they are complaining.

My recommendation would be to allow them to proxy special weapons (like flamers/meltas/missile launchers etc) in their lists. Also recommend what special weapons they should proxy before the start of a game (e.g. Proxy flamers in their tac squads when you use your Nids or plasma when you use your BT).

GamzaTheChaos wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:

theman99808 wrote:so how should I approach the newer players?

Crush them again and again, until they like it!
Games are not meant to be fun for all players involved, esp. not for losers

This 100%.

Tell them everything in the world is OP compared to their manhood.

I lol'd.

My first response is tell them to grow a pair and get over it (assuming your friends are dudes ... if not please let me know and I can alter phrase accordingly)

Also, where are you located I am in ohio and Ill come over there and show them deathwing ... lets see them complain after that battle. If they can't win against me their ability to roll 1s will be worse (better?) than mine.

Really funny how this thread keeps bringing up pure necron list. A local player refuses to play me if I field Ghazghkull, because in a recent game he killed 1500 points of Necron warriors supported by two tooled-up necron lords and a single tomb spider all by himself, while losing only a single wound.

candy.man wrote:The OP hasn’t provided many specifics in his posts. Whilst at first glance one can say that his friends are sore losers, one can’t say for sure without specifics. What points level do you play at. What lists do you and your friends run? Are there any informal agreements (like homebrew rules etc)? What type of lists does your friends normally run? How new to 40k are they? Without these, this thread appears as a rant thread.

In regards to how to treat newer opponents, 1000 point and under battles would be a good place to start. 5th edition tends to be somewhat punishing when a person doesn’t have enough anti mech and anti horde in their list, especially against mech heavy or horde heavy factions. Considering the OP has prominent mech/horde elements in his lists, I can see why they are complaining.

My recommendation would be to allow them to proxy special weapons (like flamers/meltas/missile launchers etc) in their lists. Also recommend what special weapons they should proxy before the start of a game (e.g. Proxy flamers in their tac squads when you use your Nids or plasma when you use your BT).

Well I just play what ever amount of points they really want to, they have only been playing for about 4 moths or less and I let them proxi things all the time and use units from my black templar army so they can field a decent army. Im not a rule nazi, if theres a disagreement I let them have it or we just roll off for it. For a normal game points we play anywhere from 500-1000 or maby 1500 points. I normally dont play dawn of war because......who really likes dawn of war?

theman99808 wrote:who really likes dawn of war?

I do, when my Nids fight an IG Mech heavy force. It me4ans I have a turn to get my Tyrant and Gaunts up the board before and bunch of Battle Tanks roll on. Then I can just deep strike on my Trygon, Fex in a SPOD, raveners, and wait a turn to bring in my Lictor and Stealers.

My orks quite like it

Ghaz and a battlewagon full of meganobz starting halfway across the board

Or kff 'd battlewagon full of rokkitnobz

If I am not mistaken, Nobz and MANz are Elites, so then can't start on board in DoW.

They are troops if you have a warboss (ghazzy for example) in your list

If you take a warboss and kff mek, or a two warboss list you can do what i described above:

Troop unit, dedicated transport for that unit, hq.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
*edit for clarification pre pedantry**

One unit per warboss of nobz or manz is a troop choice

Red Comet wrote:I think its a little ridiculous that every time they play you they say that. Heck at this point you probably could play Chaos Daemons and they'd say it was OP even though Chaos Daemons are alright.

Actually, I'm used to hearing that my Chaos Daemons are OP. But of the first poster's armies, none of these are really OP (except I've heard IG). BT and Nids are certainly not too strong at alll. Your buddies need to stop whining.