Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Nungunz wrote:

You charge in with your lord and plagues, and you will avg 6 attacks from your lord which with his poisoned 4+ power weapon is gonna wound 5 times thats approx 3 dead termies. He now hits back with only 6 str 4 power weapon attacks and thes must be allocated to the original squad of plague marines (the now 3 man one)

Second problem. He can freely choose to hit any units that join combat as normal. Elligible targets are decided after defenders react and before blows are struck. You're lord and plague marines are fair game.

And you have survived a grey knights assault and havn't even lost a full squad.

Most likely you will lose your lord and at least one squad of plague marines if not both.

Yes and no. You're correct on the rules, but if the GK player is still engaged with 2-3 surviving PMs, your counter-assaulting units (if you are careful in the movement phase) can position to engage only one GK model each, seriously reducing the number of attacks which can be directed at your counter-attacking units, and hopefully allowing you to win the fight.

Mannahnin wrote:
Yes and no. You're correct on the rules, but if the GK player is still engaged with 2-3 surviving PMs, your counter-assaulting units (if you are careful in the movement phase) can position to engage only one GK model each, seriously reducing the number of attacks which can be directed at your counter-attacking units, and hopefully allowing you to win the fight.

Sorry, should have specified. They're to attack the new assaulters while following the usual rules for assault, though the assaulters must try to get into B2B if possible. So they're is a good chance that most of the GK can choose to attack the new PM squad...though probably only one can hit the lord.

My bad on not being clear.

Given that a) the GK models must Pile In to base contact with the surviving PM at the end of the GK player's assault phase, and b) the CSM player can position his models however he wants in his own Movement phase, the CSM player, with careful distance evaluation, can make it so that only one GK model is in contact with and able to attack each of his countering units. Unless the GK models so outnumber the surviving PMs that some of them are left out of base contact. But that's generally only possible if only a single PM is left alive.

A winning but expencive unit is a 10-man champion termie unit x2 reaper, x10 chainfist and a few combi-plasma/melta, led by a chaos termie lord, MoK, Deamon weapon. Deep Strike close your enemy and charge now thats a whole lotta attacks hitting with no saves as chainfists count as powerfists with +1d6 AP but Invulnerables. I kill Grey Knight armies easy with just this unit, backed by 2-3 5-man Havocs with Las cannon or missile launchers. 3 Obliterators at your corner table edge, 1-2 predators tanks and a Khorne unit led by Deamon Prince.
I normally run about a 2,000 pts force and I normally win against Grey Knights and Dark Eldar with a simular list. Hoard armies my eat me up after a while though.

LordWynne wrote:A winning but expencive unit is a 10-man champion termie unit x2 reaper, x10 chainfist and a few combi-plasma/melta, led by a chaos termie lord, MoK, Deamon weapon.

Are you serious right now? Lesee

10 Chaos Terminators- 10x champ, 10x chain fist, 2x Reaper Auto Cannon, 4x combi weapons, and MoT == 655 points
Chaos Lord- Termie Armor, MoK, Daemon Weapon == 155 points

Are you seriously suggesting 810 points of deep striking chaos terminators?... Thats a huge footprint and you have a good chance of misshapping unless you go off an Icon...Then the GKs will have Warp Quake cast by any of their important units, and if your Icon is in warp quake range it stops working... and depending on reserve rolls you could be fighting a 2000 point GK army with a 1190 points Chaos army for the majority of the game...

And then you are advising that he back up this massive chaos derpstar with 4-6 heavy support options? When a list is only allowed 3 heavy support options...

Mannahnin wrote:Given that a) the GK models must Pile In to base contact with the surviving PM at the end of the GK player's assault phase, and b) the CSM player can position his models however he wants in his own Movement phase, the CSM player, with careful distance evaluation, can make it so that only one GK model is in contact with and able to attack each of his countering units.

Aye, it takes very careful planning in the movement phase to do, though.

I play chaos and my most frequent opponent is a friend that plays GK. He's generally a deep strike player, so the battle can get a bit difficult for someone who's only vehicle is a defiler. (rhinos don't count.)

But I digress. I highly recommend a Defiler with a havoc laucher and reaper autocannon, termi champions, raptors, and bikers.

When you deal with GK, you need units that can respond quickly. I find that my bikes can block a squad off and that my raptors ( with Melta gun and Plasma Pistols) can hold off most avenues of attack. Daemonic possesion on your vehicles is great, but pick and chose which ones to put it with. (Though the defiler has it by default)

All in all, I hate GK and don't enjoy playing them quite yet.

Build your army up and find what works! My strategy is fine with my friend, but it's all about what you have and how they play.

No pain no gain is the way I play, Chaos is a type of army tha takes high rish chances at a tough fight like Grey Knights. And as for those hvy units your talking about I said 2-3 havoc squads not 4 hvy's, my lists are quite legal if you ever see a full listing.

No you said 2-3 Havoc squads, a unit of Obliterators, and 1-2 Predators. That's at least 4 Heavy Choices mate.

Furthermore, adding all that with your Terminator and (terribly kitted out) Lord, what points do you have for troops? Not a great list in general, so definitely not great against Grey Knights.

Also, no, Chaos aren't a high risk army. The whole reason the typical double Lash/Plague Marine/Oblit list is the popular build is because it has consistency and synergy, not because it takes high risks.

But I never posted my full 2,000 pt CSM list just most of it, I did leave out the the fact I do have 2 HQ's and we are talking about tips vs Grey Knights not full list armies here so calm down just a tad.

Not posting the rest of your list doesn't change the fact that 4+ HCs is illegal; and what does having 2 HQs have to do with anything?

You are right, we are talking about advise against Grey Knights, but illegal lists isn't good advise as has been stated above already.

Rhino spam with Plague Marines usng plasma guns is nasty against GK as they die as easily as regular marine when shot at with plasma weapons.

In thousand points I would try to run list something ike this:

Sorcerer, MoS, Lash
5x Plague marine, 2x plasma gun, Rhino tranport
5x Plague marine, 2x plasma gun, Rhino tranport
5x Plague marine, 2x plasma gun, Rhino tranport
5x Plague marine, 2x plasma gun, Rhino tranport
Obliterator
Obliterator


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LordWynne wrote:A winning but expencive unit is a 10-man champion termie unit x2 reaper, x10 chainfist and a few combi-plasma/melta, led by a chaos termie lord, MoK, Deamon weapon. Deep Strike close your enemy and charge now thats a whole lotta attacks hitting with no saves as chainfists count as powerfists with +1d6 AP but Invulnerables. I kill Grey Knight armies easy with just this unit

That unit is way too expensive and as it can't charge on the turn they deepstrike enemy can easily consentrate fire on them. IG veteran spam can kill that squad easily, GK armies can torrent them down too with psycannon and I6 halberds. That's really just a really stupid way to spend those points. Only codex(es) to play units of ten termies is C:SM and C:BT where you get termies 2+/3++ save and thunder hammers for 40pts per model.