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kyranzor wrote:Lol well first i recommend taking out the medic and carapace(+4) armour and only one body guard from straken's squad.

By the rules your special weapons team MUST take three of the same weapon. So fix that.

Maybe change some of the weapons to be meltas somewhere? Dont put them all in one weak unit either. As in, do not use your 6-man special weapon team to carry the only 3 melta in your army.

The two penal legion squads are okay, but when you play, they MUST stick together and gang-up on one enemy at a time. Only 80 points you should only expect them to be able to challenge a 5 man marine squad.. And that is if you charge. So keep them as a 20-man style group!

How many pts are you aiming for again?? 1000?

yes I think ill take away some stuff from the command quad.

So I have to take 3 of the same weapon in a sw team? good to know, becasue the german codex (BURN THAT F***ING THING!!) isnt very specific on that. The wording suggested I could choose different equipppment....

Im thinking about having a command squad carry around meltas for me....

And Im gaming 1500

SWS squads can take three different weapons. The wording is a little odd, I admit, but nothing is preventing it (Three guardsmen must choose one of the following options: )

Medic also can't take a flamer, so only two flamers if he's in. I'd go one or the other, carpace or medic, but if you're intending to throw them at big things, either or is probably a waste since power weapons ignore both anyway.

Also, in al'rehms platoon, all parts will have to stay in reserve and walk on. This means at least two turns of not shooting with your heavy weapons . . .
Also, I'm not sure if the independent character (Priest) can outflank with them (I rather doubt it actually), rules wise. He might have to go with straken or just be taken out. I forgot about this part, sorry.

Personally, I think close range Special Weapons Teams should have a chimera for protection, but that's just me. The vendetta is needed to get straken close to the powerblob.

And you seem somewhat light on anti-tank, but I guess you'll have to adapt to local meta to some degree

Edit: A manticore would probably help your list quite a bit. It can handle anti-tank pretty well, as well as cover hordes in fiery death. You could always model it as a chimera with a good sized radar dish (or something like that) to call down lance strikes from your ship.

So you say that the special weapon team can mix weapons? I swear that i saw it discussed the other day and you couldnt.. Maybe it was someone had only 2 special weapons instead of 3? If they can mix, thats great news!



About my earlier point regarding not enough meltas it seems you do in fact have about 5, which isnt too bad. But 4 of them are in al'rahim's squad, which wont turn up for a while

Thank you again, Irdiumstern.

Damn, I didnt think about Alrahems outflanking rule.... so how do i get the hws on the table? Id have to take at least 2 Infantry platoons. I want to use them, there mut be a way

I like your manticore idea, so I'll include that.

Are rough riders useful? Their lance rule ounds nice, but i doupt theyll last long, since they only wear 5+ and are t3. Also theyd be like the only thing on the table to shoot at in turn one, because alrahem only comes in turn 2. Is there a way to make them useful?

He has an astropath, so the reserves coming in shouldn't be too bad of a problem. The SWS is my interpretation based on the wording, and what I've read from other posters. Perhaps a search of YMDC would be prudent.

For heavy weapons . . . I'd use the heavy support slots you've got. A Manticore should provide adequate firepower. Since it can fire indirect, you can start it on the board and still stay safe. Alternatively, it can also fire direct, start in reserves, and fire as it rolls on. Other artillery pieces could also be helpful.

Fast attack could fit another vendetta in squadron. That would provide 3 more lascannons, more than your heavy weapons team.

Rough Riders . . . personally, I don't think they'd work in your list. I think they can work as a counter assault force, to break a unit tearing into your lines, but since you aren't running a static force . . . You've got a decent assault element already anyway.

Ok, so next list attempt will include another vendetta and a manticore, and ill take away the heavy weapons and some upgrades on the ccs. Then im still 200p over.....what to do? Take away the hellhound?

Maybe just drop the penal legion men.. They honestly wont do much, I have never had any luck with them. Too squishy, and no special weapons.. That saves you 160 points, and models too!

Maybe you have a point there; I just included them to represent pirates, but i guess guardsmen with alrahems "fleet" and skrakens furious charge work jut a well

You want smart pirates not ones that have been caught and out through the penal system! Lol. Regular guardsmen modelled as rebel pirates is good

kyranzor wrote:You want smart pirates not ones that have been caught and out through the penal system! Lol. Regular guardsmen modelled as rebel pirates is good

Yeah i figured that, got the new list nearly ready for posting


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here it is!:

HQ
-CCS, Skraken 210
w. laspitols, 4 flamers, astropath and 1 bodyguard

-Priest 45
w. pumpgun

ELITES
-Marbo 65

TROOPS
-Inf. Platoon 485
-PCS
w. Alrahem, vox, 3 flamers
- Infantry Squad
w. kommisar w. pw, sarge with pw and flamer
-Infantry Squad
w. pw on sarge, flamer
-Infantry Squad
w. pw on sarge, flamer
-Infantry Squad
w. pw on sarge, flamer

Chimera for PCS

FAST ATTAC
- 2 Vendettas 260

- 3 Sentinels 125
w. 2 atoc., 1ml

- Hellhound
w. multimelta and sl 150

HEAVY SUPPORT
-Manticore 160

1500

Umhh one of the infantry squads needs a vox to take advantage of the vox in al'rehms squad. Also, you seem to only have one troop choice.

aaand you have absolutely no meltas or plasmas. This is really bad. Also alrahem's platoon only has very short range weapons, and might not come in till halfway through the game. Blob squads are usually needed in round one and onwards.. either as a screen, as a good place to put autocannons for first-round shooting, or other random reasons. Often for capturing objectives.

I'll add more later, but seriously get rid of the chimera, exchange all the flamers for meltas. You have no chance of killing terminators with this list, you will be slaughtered by draigowings or deathwings etc. And monstrous creatures.

See what others say, or maybe just test the list out.. but yeah, also need an extra troop choice mate

Irdiumstern wrote:Umhh one of the infantry squads needs a vox to take advantage of the vox in al'rehms squad. Also, you seem to only have one troop choice.

i know, i actually have a vox on my (paper) list, but i seem to have forgotten to write it down.

And right, I only have one troop choiche; all those units that count as troops confuse me . What do you suggest? minimize alrahems platoon and get another one?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

kyranzor wrote:aaand you have absolutely no meltas or plasmas. This is really bad. Also alrahem's platoon only has very short range weapons, and might not come in till halfway through the game. Blob squads are usually needed in round one and onwards.. either as a screen, as a good place to put autocannons for first-round shooting, or other random reasons. Often for capturing objectives.

I'll add more later, but seriously get rid of the chimera, exchange all the flamers for meltas. You have no chance of killing terminators with this list, you will be slaughtered by draigowings or deathwings etc. And monstrous creatures.

See what others say, or maybe just test the list out.. but yeah, also need an extra troop choice mate

Thanks for your advice. Where should i put the metas? command quads or infantry squads? I do have one on the hellhound

I think i was bit too focued on blasting away my brothers eldar, so i didnt chose too much ap2. Bad, becaue sooner or later im going to face termies, and right, i need meltas.

Your list seems all over the place, it lacks direction.

generally a guard list consists out of a main element and a support element.
You invest the bulk of your points in your core and then decide to invest in tanks/ flyers etc

Sadly your list tries to do four things at once, resulting at not beeing very good at any one.

____

with your list you reserve everything, you possibly can. you will only have a manticore, helhound on the field.

Your two mech units will die in turn one against a competive player (maybe not, if you place them all back.)

Then your army will come in, if your lucky at the same time. If not...you will be putting a few units out against an entire army, wich will shoot the bejesus out of them.
and then wait until the next unit comes.

Plus the fact, that the place you'll come out is random, so units can end up in the wrong place. (an enemy, can use their move turns to block of an entire side, to force you to walk across the length of the table, destroying your suprise advantage.)

Plus if you want to go footguard, you simply don't have enough melta or manpower to stay on the table. (example, i throw one dreadnought in your powerblob...they're never gonna get out.)

Just my notes, as i play footguard too, and manage to win quite often.
(Also Vox is a waste of points, invest them in melta.)

Thanks sillyboy, ill think of this when making my new list. Do you have any suggetion what to take away/add? Should i keep alrahem? Should i exchange the infquad flamers with meltas or the commandquad ones?

And another attempt:

HQ
- CCS
w. skraken, 4 pistols, 4 meltas, an atropath and one bodyguard 230

- Priest 45

- Priest 45

ELITES
-Marbo 65

TROOPS
- Inf. Platoon
- PCS
w. pw on the commander, 3 flamers, one gl 60
- Inf. Squad
w. Kommisar w. pw, sarge w. pw, vox and flamer 115
- Inf Squad
w. pw on sarge, flamer 65
- Inf Squad
w. pw on sarge, flamer 65

- Inf. Platoon
-PCS
w. Alrahem, vox, 3 grenade launchers 120
- Inf. Squad
w. pw on sarge, vox, melta 70
- Inf. Squad
w. pw on sarge, melta 65

FAST ATTAC
- 2 Vendettas 260

- 3 Scout Sentinels
w. 2 autocannon, 1 ml 125

HEAVY SUPPORT
-Manticore 160

Is this better now?

Skip the second platoon. Take a squad of vets with 3 melta or plasma guns and stick them in the second vendetta or something like that. Al'rehm will get one blob somewhere where it needs to be. The manticore and hellhound can both start off the table and hopefully hit at the same time as the blob since you have an astropath. If there's some good solid cover on the table, you can drop the manticore in there and try to do some early damage.

Scout sentinels outflank as well. Another troop choice would be one squad of Penals, since they can also outflank. Vendettas can either be deployed on-table if you're facing light enemy fire, or outflanked so you can hit with everything at once.

Of course, this is all opinion. Try it! Take your list out and test it against some other armies!

lose the bodyguard, 1 extra wound at the cost of three normal guardsmen isn't worth it.
(Plus 2 deaths is a panic test at 5 men, and still is at 6....)

PCS 1 : lose the flamers and gl. give them 3x melta. And put them in a vendetta.

==> if you got first turn deploy=> use turboboost in scoutmove towards big enemy mech threat. => in movement fase fly 6 inch, deploy pcs next to tank and almost a guaranteed first turn mech kill.
I used this once and first turn i blew up a landraider. Plus because you turboboosted, you have the right to claim a 4+ invulnerable save during the enemy's first shooting face.

If you don't have first turn, decide if it's wise to reserve or too also place it on the board. (Can't give you a definite answer, depends on enemy and the scenery.)

Blob 1: Lose vox and flamers, get Melta or meltabombs. (Be carefull with bombs, if you explode a vehicle you're standing next too it can and probably will kill guardsmen.)

PCS with al'rahem: lose gl and vox. Give him Melta ( since he can use the "bring it down" order to be really efficient at blowing gak up.)
Perhaps consider giving him a chimera...Maybe...

blob 2: Lose the vox get a Commisar with PW....Always if you decide to blob get a commisar! They make sure your dudes don't run after the first few casualties, and seeing as their guardsmen, lots will die. The LD and reroll from the commisar is very important.

2 Vendetta's...I would suggest dropping one. Using the other one with the pcs to do an alpha strike, or harass. (don't forget that PCS is a scoring unit.)

I personally find scout sentinels....to be useless...
I would suggest trading it in for a Hydra or 2... these will give you 8 rerollable str: 7 ap: 4 shots at up to 72 inch range...(And use them to target transports, if you destroy the enemies mobility, its easier to run towards them. )

And a manticore is very nice!

And concerning the Priests...I personally find them awesome... But even i only use one with an evascirator in Al'rahem squad. (They are ic, so can be targeted in combat...and it's sometimes a long way to reach the enemy... while in al'rahems squad you don't have that problem, plus you can let her leave the squad to kill vehicles with her evascirator.

And i would suggest on splitting Blob 1 up into two blobs. use the spare points from your vendetta and 1 deleted priest to buy a PIS for one blob and another commissar.
(Giving you two blobs on the field to start with. )

c'mon Irdiumstern and Sillyboy, stop telling me complete opposite stuff!! . Your advise is very welcome btw, i just dont know who to listen to. Im ging to do something in between.

I actually do not want to take even more guardsman, because pirates are supposed to be few, and different tinking compared to the IG, so they dont really flush the enemy of the table with a human tide. This is why I like vets and penals, but they wouldnt be too great in an assault army, right? Hmmm....

So what Ill do is put an eviscerator on the one priest ill keep, get some vets (with meltas) to fly around in the second vendetta and drop one blob (wich one? alrahems or the other one??)

I do want the hellhound back, but that'd mean even less bodys to furious charge, so no (sniff)

@Merlin

Well, i can see the the benefits of combining mech and foot, sadly i just don't think it's a competive idea.
Because, most people will have weapons agains horde and mech.

So if you go foot and mech. Every weapon in their army is useful. AT can shoot mech, templates can take down infantry.
But if your opponent decides to go full mech or foot, you make (theoritical if they go 50/50) their weapon arsenal less effective.

You brought flamers, good luck flaming my tanks, or vica versa: My lascannon just killed a guardsman...so a space marine + lc = 31 points (i'm not a hundred procent sure) can kill 1 guardsmen worth five points.

And adding the fact, that the current meta game is mech. Most people will have lots of AT and few anti-horde weapons. Wich is a boon for footguard.
(BTW: my foot guard consist off around a 100 guardsmen, it's really hard to even wipe me off the table.)

And have you considered, going for a 'flying circus'?

Lots of Vendetta's and a few vet squads armed to the teeth, jumping into the deep.
That woul also fit the theme of Space/sky pirates.

ahh, even more good advice. This thread's a gold mine!

What you're saying about not mixing mech and footslogers makes alot of sense to me, ill keep it in mind. So only one vendetta? And make up for the dropped lacannons with meltas?

I love your flying circus idea, I will try to make such a list later on and use the models i will have build then. But for now ill go for rough 'n tough eyepatch-pegleg guys who'll poke out your eyes with their hookhands and sabres in cc This is why i would so much like to include penal legion guys. Is there any way of making them ueful and good?

how much models do you currently have? Cause else i can give you a nice 500 pts list, you can use to see if you like the footguard playstyle.. Before you invest a lot in it.

The footguard playstyle is this:

1. move towards the enemies
2. don't shoot, but run towards your enemies. (use the RRR order for that, gets you there faster.) unless there are more pressing matters, like a dreadnought trying to tarpit your blob.
3. If possible charge!

If you only lose around 20 guardsmen a turn...Then it was a good turn.

In combat, your powerweapons will wreck face....eventually. It will take a few combat turns before you chew through your opponent.
Blobs win through attriration. You just keeping throwing guardsmen at it, until your opponent dies. Don't be scared if the batlle destroys half your unit. You still have plenty left. (altough cover could be handy.)

Don't be afraid to use your units as meatshields, You have plenty, and if your opponent decides to shoot the tank standing behind it. It will recieve a 4+ cover save.

Abuse the cover mechanic => 50 procent of your unit has to be in cover, or out of LOS to claim a 4+ cover save.
Wich mean you can have 15 men of your 30 men blob sitting in the open and receiving a cover save.

Penal legions...are sadly not good. And there's three reasons for it;

-Their abbilities are random, so you can't have your strategy depending on them. Wich means you used 80 points less for your chosen tactic. Wich makes it weaker.
(Because you'r oponent will have more points is his tactic)

- no weapon slots

- and you can't combine penal legionaires, wich is where the strenght of the guard lays.

Thanks again for your help. Here is a list of what i currently have:

(1), the Codex



...

That said, feel free to write a list for me, I'd appreciate it very much! It doesnt have to be super competitive, and it should enable me to build a nice pirate list from it. Apart from that, do as you like

Another quetion: Is there a way to play footguard and still have 60 or less models? Or would that just fail? Because if I have to get 100+ models, I can hardly customize and personalize every single one of it, wich I really want to do.

I must defend the punisher. I run the damn thing just because I think it looks great but it has never dissappointed me. I run it with a HB in front and the HB sponsons. I also have a Stubber on it just for looks. It is damn expensive, it can take suprisingly lot of punishment and the best of all it usually does not start the game as a priority target. With the exception of one of my friends... but 32 shots and 24 of them hitting 21 wounding can be scary.

have you already played the game? Or are you new to the game?

MrMerlin wrote: That said, feel free to write a list for me, I'd appreciate it very much! It doesnt have to be super competitive, and it should enable me to build a nice pirate list from it. Apart from that, do as you like

Here's the basic outlay of my 500 pt list.

CCS + regimental standard = 65

PCS = 30

PIS with pw and commisar with pw =105
PIS with pw =60

PCS = 30

PIS with pw and commisar with pw =105
PIS with pw = 60

This leaves you with 45 extra points, you can invest in something. Dependant on your mates meta game. (for 500 points game, don't look at bigger games)
Lots of mech => get AT or Melta
Lots of 2+ guys => get plasma
Lots of troops => get an extra PIs with PW or invest in templates...

MrMerlin wrote:Another quetion: Is there a way to play footguard and still have 60 or less models? Or would that just fail? Because if I have to get 100+ models, I can hardly customize and personalize every single one of it, wich I really want to do.

It will be quite tricky to pull of, simply because you don't have enough men. Unless you're willing to give up a blob in exchange for an expensive ogryn squad with a lord commissar.
(Note: most people consider this a sub par choice.

And if you really want around 60 guys, I suggest looking into mech or Flying circus.

sillyboy wrote:have you already played the game? Or are you new to the game?

Yes I have played alot of games, I usually lead an Ork WAAAGH!

sillyboy wrote: And if you really want around 60 guys, I suggest looking into mech or Flying circus.

Ill drop the footguard idear then, if it takes this many models

Can you combine mech and flying circus?

MrMerlin wrote:Can you combine mech and flying circus?

Well you can do everything you like, the question is just this: Will it be effective?

And what kind of Mech support are you thinking?

Tank?
Artillery?
Or Vets in chimera's?

On the tank mech, it's possible. If you place you're tanks cleverly.

Artillery:....also good...as long as you don't fire without LOS. (wich makes that you can't detract your BS from the scatter distance.)

These two are very good in their own regard. My only problem with it is that it's all templates that will scatter.
And usually your Vendettas are close by. So it can be dangerous. Unles you are sure that you can maintain a perimeter around your enemies. Then these problems fade away.

Vets in chimera's... Is also good. Less explosive fire, but more AV12 target saturation.
( = pushing as many AV12 hull at your enemy, so he doesn't know what too shoot first. Usually he'll try to fire at everything. Making sure almost nothing zeally dies, so you can keep pushing.)

I like the idea of fast stuff (fitting for pirates) so i like hellhounds and vendettas / valks. I also like the manticor, and veterans would fit the theme a well (see fluff in the OP)

If i start writing a list now it will fail, becaue I dont know what goes where. So Ill first check out how to do it. Could you advise me please?

I REALLY appreciate the help you gave me this far, Sillyboy, Thank you!

Well i would say to you, just try to write a list. If i do it all you won't learn anything.
Just try it, and post it.

If i see it, i'll tell if you have a glaring problem in it.

Ok ill start working on it now.

Btw. if you ever want to start Orks I'd be glad to help you out!!