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I'll admit, I want to see more Necromunda...and I don't see Dreadfleet making a difference on that one. Having said that, I think that Dreadfleet is no big deal and if I had the impulse, I might blow the cash for it, but my Orks are calling for me!

Zarren Wevon wrote:

cincydooley wrote:
The release and subsequent success of Dreadfleet will only encourage GW to revisit some of these older Specialist Games

No it won't.

If this were true, space hulk's insane success would have also caused them to revisit some older SGs rather than this odd new product.

Lead time, folks. When Space Hulk was released, Dreadfleet design was probably already pretty well advanced.

I'm not buying Dreadfleet, it's not my cup of tea (neither setting or the models). But I think it's nice they sometimes release something new, something which isn't Space Marines.

Unfortunately, from the comments, lots of people seem to be disappointed that GW releases something which is not Space Marines.

cincydooley wrote:It shows us that Games Workshop isn’t simply relying on past Specialist Games and rehashing them (as was one of the ‘complaints’ in regards to Space Hulk); rather, they’re allowing folks like Phil Kelly an avenue to explore new designs outside of their core product line. Fostering the creativity of their development teams with pet projects like this was previously relegated to Forge World

They use to do the same thing WITH specialist games, which got us things like Gorka Morka, Mordhiem and a variety of units and teams and EXPANSIONS for specialist games.

I dont see this as a good thing, but a bad thing-the one off games. If it cant be done in one box it wont get done. Stiffling creativity instead of expanding it.

I don't think I ever heard someone complain that the most recent Space Hulk was a 'rehash'. And then there's the fact that Space Hulk has never been a 'specialist game'.

Aus-Rotten wrote:I don't know if this is a good thing but I could not order necromunda models from my lgs because they are changing them to finecast. So that might be a sign of soon to come revitalization in the specialist games.

?? Haven't heard a damn thing about this. I think someone at your LGS is confused on what's going on.

-If it's on the GW website, your LGS can order it through their normal Trade Sales rep. It will come as a seperate order from Mailorder and cost a bit more than they would normally pay. Discount is 10% less on special orders.

-GW are trying to drop metal, and move production to finecast and plastic. That said, it's a slow process with only a small percentage of models converted over to resin. Metal is still available from the website, although at times they do have back orders because it's not their main focus right now.

-Specialist games will not be getting produced in Finecast until after the main range models are done. If ever. It may not be cost effective to produce them, as most SG have very low sales per piece.

Just ask your store to order you the pieces through their trade sales rep. If they won't do it, console yourself that you tried, and order them off the GW website.

I don't agree that this will do anything for Specialist Games then they do not want to do for themselves, already.

Are you kidding me? There are over ten or so games that people actually played, until the great big FU that GW gave to the whole show over there.

Now, you think that a half hearted attempt at Man O War is good for anything other then fleecing a few more bucks from some fanboys? There are around four or five more games out there that are doing the fleet battle ten times the effort, at half the price. And as a side note, those other games are not trying to spoon feed you on content, just on the sake of sales.

Specialist Games is dead. It stays that way, because GW says so. They do not care about specialist games, except for a nastalga walk down memory lane on what GW used to be about. Then they pull out a reference, or comment to the fact that they USED to have a game of so and so, or what and what...

Specailist Games USED to be something worth discussing. 4 or so magazines, plenty of fan based mateial, and loads of content. NOW?

Be suprised that GW doesn't send itself a C and D letter for putting out one off games for ripping off its own ideas.

I agree with Grot 6 unfortunately. DF does absolutely nothing for Specialist Games and GW will not release anything that isn't contained in a single box no matter if DF is a success or a bust.

That being said, BB might well be released next year (I doubt it because next year is slotted to be 6th Ed. 40K year), but odds are that we will never see a new edition of Mordheim, Necromunda, BFG, etc.

I agree with your article 100%. I am by no means a GW fan boy. What I do like is a nice boxed game. One that doesnt take any more money to play after the initial release. I am all for GW making more of these boxed games in the future. I will probably buy every one from this point on. (sure wish I would have ordered Space Hulk).

inquisitorlewis wrote:I agree with your article 100%. I am by no means a GW fan boy. What I do like is a nice boxed game. One that doesnt take any more money to play after the initial release. I am all for GW making more of these boxed games in the future. I will probably buy every one from this point on. (sure wish I would have ordered Space Hulk).

I think they are the future and the death of specialist games. GW will play these in the shops to sell up the remaining stock and then they won't want to know.

Specialist games didn't used to be called 'specialist', there wasn't the suggestion of elitism - they were just 'games' like Warhammer and 40K and supported as such. That's what I don't like about the 'specialist games' branding, they don't mind taking the money from some vets but they don't want you around distracting from their main games. These one-shots are more cynical, they churn out so many and sell them and won't want them in the shop in short order. And why would they? Once the stock is gone there's nothing to be gained from letting people play with them or giving them any support at all. How does this encourage creativity, they make a game and then strangle it off because it's not allowed to go anywhere. At least they are up front about giving them zero support I suppose, but it means anything with wider scope like Necromunda are dead. Specialist games in any meaningful sense are dead.

Dreadfleet is just so ephemeral. I don't see this as a good thing for the concept of 'specialist games' because it's nothing like those games, it's the nail in the coffin for that kind of GW product. Those games are diverse and rich, they are not suited to one-shot releases. In future you will have the big three, and then every couple of years you will get a one-off that you are sold and then told to feth off with because once the stock is gone they don't want to know. One-offs *are* a money grab, they want the money, and they don't want the game. If you come back, then next time they will try to sell you space marines again. Why should we care or support games that GW don't care about beyond shifting their 75,000 copies ASAP?

There's a belief that by supporting Dreadfleet it will lead to more specialist games like Warhammer Quest. Well if that's the case, why not just MAKE Warhammer Quest? I would have bought that. I refute the suggestion that a weak non-entity of a product should be supported in the vain hope that GW produce something that people really want. Why can't they just make the thing people really want?

My issue isn't that one-shot games exist, because there are plenty of games that you can play out of the box. It's that these are the replacement for the specialist games of the past and that we should be grateful. That's pretty sad. Buy the game if you like it by all means, but I can't see the point in supporting it for the purposes of encouraging GW to make more of the same as is suggested in the OP.

They weren't even always "Specialist" games.

When they bundled them all together, they were Fanatic Games, because the magazine covering them all was Fanatic Magazine.

But a GW lawyer got worried about terrorist associations, and they changed it.

Good article and good analysis. While Dread Fleet is not my cup of rum I was glad to see something new come from GW, it's been a while since I saw anything that really struck me as novel, lately FFG has had that corner all to themselves. I kind of like the idea that the designers are as sick of recyling the same armies as we are.

One question, IIRC the really new thing about Space Hulk 2009 was that it was done out of house. Designed and made in Red China.

WHere was Dreadfleet designed and manufactured? Anyone know?

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Good article and good analysis. While Dread Fleet is not my cup of rum I was glad to see something new come from GW, it's been a while since I saw anything that really struck me as novel, lately FFG has had that corner all to themselves. I kind of like the idea that the designers are as sick of recyling the same armies as we are.

One question, IIRC the really new thing about Space Hulk 2009 was that it was done out of house. Designed and made in Red China.

WHere was Dreadfleet designed and manufactured? Anyone know?

You mean the whole WD article where they where playing up the benifits of Space hulk with its 'Awsome card stock' and 'inverse embossing' and 'excellent detailed models' where all made with Chinese sweat shop labour?? Awsome GW awsome, another reason for me not to buy from GW. I dont' buy from Walmart because of what they do to small businesses and how they strong arm distrubitors so I believe this is the last nail in the coffin GW. Thanks for making it a easy decision.

I will buy my mini's from a small business in england, who pours his own metal mini's and makes a profit off of it.

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:I couldn't give two hoots about Dreadfleet.

Couldnt agree more.

I might be interested in a new Blood Bowl, but Id really like to see Warhammer Quest or Necromunda redone.

Regardless of the OP, which is not a bad read by the way, the product is not selling. The GW store in my region been putting on all of those pirate motifs all over the store at the prodding of Corporate Office. They are trying to sell more product by Halloween. Seen the manager's boss painting up models, trying to push product. Maybe by December they might sell out of Dread Fleet globally.

Adam LongWalker wrote:Regardless of the OP, which is not a bad read by the way, the product is not selling. The GW store in my region been putting on all of those pirate motifs all over the store at the prodding of Corporate Office. They are trying to sell more product by Halloween. Seen the manager's boss painting up models, trying to push product. Maybe by December they might sell out of Dread Fleet globally.

Is that bad? I'm not sure how fast they expected a product that hardly anyone would have heard of prior to it's release to sell.

Indeed. Space Hulk was something I wanted because I knew from playing the original that it was worth it. I wanted it because I knew I would like it. The high price nearly stopped me but I went for it anyway.
Dreadfleet on the other hand, well, I've got no assurance of quality at all. I will not spend money on something if I have no idea if it's going to be any good. I'm sure many others are the same.
They should have re-released Warhammer Quest. I'd have bought that in a heartbeat.

65,000 is a huge run for a board game. I should think that selling out by Christmas will be a good performance.

Back on topic, it looks like GW are barely able to support the three games they have now. I am not clear as to the reasons why. They have plenty of staff and cash on hand.

At any rate, if GW thought they would make money from launching or supporting more games we would see them on shelves. Instead, it's six months between codexes, and up to 10 years for Xenian armies.

Therefore I would say about Dread Fleet that "one swallow does not make a summer". I am not confident that its release represents a renaissance of either Specialist or all-in-one boxed games from GW.

Interesting article. a few points.

I see products like Space Hulk and Dreadfleet as being completely different from specialist games. Specialist games is the dumping ground for miniatures games with figure lines that GW fears it's fans would freak out about if they discontinued, but for which it's not profitable to create new content. Later GW tossed some vintage content in from it's old board games, but few take that content very seriously and it's not what originally made up "specialist games" when GW spun it of under it's own heading. Remember also that for the most part the games in Specialist Games were not originaly "specialist". Rather, they were GW miniatures games like any other games.

Dreadfleet on the other hand is a board game with limited release and it is unlikely that it will show up on the specialist game site anytime this decade. It may help with designer retention (Priestly is on record saying that one of his woes with GW was that he wasn't doing much game designing, more just 40k/WHFB tweaking), but I don't think there's enough evidence to say for sure. It may help GW to release other gaming prouducts other than the big 3, but GW has always done that anyway.

In the end, I don't see Dreadfleet as something different or a renaissance of SP, it's just another in a very long line of 1-off games from GW. It and Spacehulk are notable only in their increased price and high production values.

Also, no need to apologize for hosting your own content. It's entirely your decision where to base your own writing. Some may not want to take the time to click to linked content, but that's their choice. I would avoid comparisons to other sites like BoLS , Dakka, etc. Better to let your content stand on it's own and have the reader make their own decision.